[opensuse] KDE and recent locations
We have an interesting issue that I think is caused by KDE and recent locations. I think that when you start KDE, something is attempting to access directories that you have recently been in, for example in Dolphin. Sounds innocent. However, if you: 1. Turn on two computers. One is your openSUSE with KDE (the mount client), and the other shares a drive. 2. Mount a remote drive during one login session. Perhaps visit the mounted drive with dolphin. As one does. 3. Exit all programs in KDE and then log out. Turn off the computers. 4. Turn on only your linux computer and log in to the desktop. What happens is that the desktop is very unresponsive. The mouse moves, but nothing else. For a very long time. Turn on the remote computer and suddenly all works. The system startup and getting to the login is quick as usual. It is after the KDE login that the fun starts. We also see that if the remote computer is turned off at any time, the entire KDE desktop suddenly gets unresponsive. Until the remote computer comes back. We are using automount (defined fully in /etc/fstab) for this because having the mounts not be automount is a problem when the remote system is not available. Which, in the real world, can be the case. All of this only happens in KDE. If the system is turned on and one logs in via ssh (no desktop), the system works as expected. It is interesting that as soon as one starts KDE - even if one is not accessing a remote drive in any open application - suddenly the last places that were visited are being automounted. Until KDE is started, the mounts are not done. It is KDE that is making this happen. Originally we thought this might be because we had the drives mounted in the user's $HOME. We changed that so they are automounted in /media. No difference. It looks like KDE wants, somewhere, to keep accessing recent places you have visited. So the automount option to unmount drives not accessed in some time has no effect. KDE will keep accessing them. Even if no open program is doing so. If this only effected accessing these remote drives, we could survive. But for the entire desktop to be unresponsive is a problem. It has been reported that ATL-CTRL-DEL in the KDE desktop gets you to the logout screen directly, and then the system is responsive. This is openSUSE 42.3, and what ever KDE is had. I realize that this is perhaps older and not interesting. I have not been able to test this on a newer openSUSE release. Which is too bad. Is there any way to tell KDE to not try to access these locations? Or to not freeze the whole desktop when a mount is not available? -- Roger Oberholtzer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op maandag 28 januari 2019 12:24:05 CET schreef Roger Oberholtzer:
We have an interesting issue that I think is caused by KDE and recent locations. I think that when you start KDE, something is attempting to access directories that you have recently been in, for example in Dolphin. Sounds innocent.
However, if you:
1. Turn on two computers. One is your openSUSE with KDE (the mount client), and the other shares a drive.
2. Mount a remote drive during one login session. Perhaps visit the mounted drive with dolphin. As one does.
3. Exit all programs in KDE and then log out. Turn off the computers.
4. Turn on only your linux computer and log in to the desktop.
What happens is that the desktop is very unresponsive. The mouse moves, but nothing else. For a very long time. Turn on the remote computer and suddenly all works. The system startup and getting to the login is quick as usual. It is after the KDE login that the fun starts.
We also see that if the remote computer is turned off at any time, the entire KDE desktop suddenly gets unresponsive. Until the remote computer comes back.
We are using automount (defined fully in /etc/fstab) for this because having the mounts not be automount is a problem when the remote system is not available. Which, in the real world, can be the case.
All of this only happens in KDE. If the system is turned on and one logs in via ssh (no desktop), the system works as expected.
It is interesting that as soon as one starts KDE - even if one is not accessing a remote drive in any open application - suddenly the last places that were visited are being automounted. Until KDE is started, the mounts are not done. It is KDE that is making this happen.
Originally we thought this might be because we had the drives mounted in the user's $HOME. We changed that so they are automounted in /media. No difference.
It looks like KDE wants, somewhere, to keep accessing recent places you have visited. So the automount option to unmount drives not accessed in some time has no effect. KDE will keep accessing them. Even if no open program is doing so.
If this only effected accessing these remote drives, we could survive. But for the entire desktop to be unresponsive is a problem.
It has been reported that ATL-CTRL-DEL in the KDE desktop gets you to the logout screen directly, and then the system is responsive.
This is openSUSE 42.3, and what ever KDE is had. I realize that this is perhaps older and not interesting. I have not been able to test this on a newer openSUSE release. Which is too bad.
Is there any way to tell KDE to not try to access these locations? Or to not freeze the whole desktop when a mount is not available? In your case I would not mount these folders from the second machine through fstab, but instead create "Network" with either sftp, smb or ssh. But, you don't say what protocol you're using to export/mount.
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Is there any way to tell KDE to not try to access these locations? Or to not freeze the whole desktop when a mount is not available?
In your case I would not mount these folders from the second machine through fstab, but instead create "Network" with either sftp, smb or ssh.
Hmm, that would be working on symptoms, instead of fixing the cause.... I think it's valid that programs (likely dolphin?) try to check if the last used files are valid. Problem with autofs is that this immediately triggers a mount. Or the try of it. You can try to mount the stuff with option bg, so it doesn't block when trying to access, likely also intr. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 12:39 PM Knurpht-openSUSE <knurpht@opensuse.org> wrote:
In your case I would not mount these folders from the second machine through fstab, but instead create "Network" with either sftp, smb or ssh. But, you don't say what protocol you're using to export/mount.
CIFS from a remote Windows 10 computer. I need the mounts to show up in both the shell and Dolphin. It is not appropriate that the files are only accessible via a command. I need them to not cause anything to 'freeze' when they are not available. For whatever reason. -- Roger Oberholtzer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019-01-28 12:52, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
I need the mounts to show up in both the shell and Dolphin. It is not appropriate that the files are only accessible via a command.
sshfs? I've got this in a script /usr/bin/sshfs -o ServerAliveInterval=60 -o follow_symlinks -o \ allow_other -p<port> your_user@<ip_or_host>:/your_remote_path \ /your_local_path -- /bengan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019-01-28 6:52 a.m., Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 12:39 PM Knurpht-openSUSE <knurpht@opensuse.org> wrote:
In your case I would not mount these folders from the second machine through fstab, but instead create "Network" with either sftp, smb or ssh. But, you don't say what protocol you're using to export/mount.
CIFS from a remote Windows 10 computer.
I need the mounts to show up in both the shell and Dolphin. It is not appropriate that the files are only accessible via a command.
I need them to not cause anything to 'freeze' when they are not available. For whatever reason.
Yes, you are facing a mandatory "Don't do A until B completes" situation. Something that systemd can work around or address with system start-up, but you are dealing with KDE startup. Now in Xinit there is some shell-equivlent programming and you can "&" a program or "nice" it down, but within the KDE restoration of state ...? I don't know. Is there something in the control panel about this? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019-01-28 8:03 a.m., Anton Aylward wrote:
Now in Xinit there is some shell-equivlent programming and you can "&" a program or "nice" it down, but within the KDE restoration of state ...? I don't know. Is there something in the control panel about this?
AH! KDE settings -> Startup and Shutdown -> Background Services There is a "Removable Device Automounter" option that is enabled. Perhaps you should look into how that works. There's also a an option that "Monitors Recent document folders". I'm not sure of the semantics of that. It may be relevant. There's also a "Directory Watcher" and "Network Folder Watcher" but they are disabled on my machine. YMMV and the semantic of the above may or may not be relevant. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 2:16 PM Anton Aylward <opensuse@antonaylward.com> wrote:
AH! KDE settings -> Startup and Shutdown -> Background Services
The only thing we have changed here is that on Login, we Restore the previous session, except for a couple of things we exclude because they are in the Autostart - we want them even if they were not running at last logout. The Startup Services are, IIRC, in the default state. Maybe there is something there that makes this happen. We will add checking that to our test list.
There is a "Removable Device Automounter" option that is enabled. Perhaps you should look into how that works.
There's also a an option that "Monitors Recent document folders". I'm not sure of the semantics of that. It may be relevant.
There's also a "Directory Watcher" and "Network Folder Watcher" but they are disabled on my machine.
Hmmm... Directory Watcher. Sounds interesting. We will see what that does. Of course, then I guess Dolphin and such will never see when files are added to the current directory. But maybe it keeps it from messing with other directories that you have visited but are no linger actively accessing in an application. -- Roger Oberholtzer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019-01-28 8:41 a.m., Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 2:16 PM Anton Aylward <opensuse@antonaylward.com> wrote:
AH! KDE settings -> Startup and Shutdown -> Background Services
The only thing we have changed here is that on Login, we Restore the previous session, except for a couple of things we exclude because they are in the Autostart - we want them even if they were not running at last logout.
Yes, good point. I have a 'fetchmail' in there and a 'xrandr' to resize the scree. It is very much a YMMV thing, isn't it?
There is a "Removable Device Automounter" option that is enabled. Perhaps you should look into how that works.
There's also a an option that "Monitors Recent document folders". I'm not sure of the semantics of that. It may be relevant.
There's also a "Directory Watcher" and "Network Folder Watcher" but they are disabled on my machine.
Hmmm... Directory Watcher. Sounds interesting. We will see what that does. Of course, then I guess Dolphin and such will never see when files are added to the current directory. But maybe it keeps it from messing with other directories that you have visited but are no linger actively accessing in an application.
maybe. I'm still trying to find where the *semantics*, as opposed to just the documentation of what they do, is discussed. -- Where we cannot invent, we may at least improve. -- Charles Caleb Colton -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, Am 28.01.19 um 14:41 schrieb Roger Oberholtzer:
On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 2:16 PM Anton Aylward <opensuse@antonaylward.com> wrote:
AH! KDE settings -> Startup and Shutdown -> Background Services
The only thing we have changed here is that on Login, we Restore the previous session, except for a couple of things we exclude because they are in the Autostart - we want them even if they were not running at last logout.
maybe different problem maybe in some way related: did you automatically restart libreoffice? here we have: access to a nfs server, client: go in libreoffice to that directory, load some document, close libreoffice and switching off this server and starting libreoffice again on client, try to open file dialog desktop freezes also here (maybe only very very slow), - but different to yours, if client will be switched off and on again, libreoffice starts without freezing desktop (even if server is off). simoN
The Startup Services are, IIRC, in the default state. Maybe there is something there that makes this happen. We will add checking that to our test list.
There is a "Removable Device Automounter" option that is enabled. Perhaps you should look into how that works.
There's also a an option that "Monitors Recent document folders". I'm not sure of the semantics of that. It may be relevant.
There's also a "Directory Watcher" and "Network Folder Watcher" but they are disabled on my machine.
Hmmm... Directory Watcher. Sounds interesting. We will see what that does. Of course, then I guess Dolphin and such will never see when files are added to the current directory. But maybe it keeps it from messing with other directories that you have visited but are no linger actively accessing in an application.
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On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 2:03 PM Anton Aylward <opensuse@antonaylward.com> wrote:
I need them to not cause anything to 'freeze' when they are not available. For whatever reason.
Yes, you are facing a mandatory "Don't do A until B completes" situation. Something that systemd can work around or address with system start-up, but you are dealing with KDE startup.
Exactly. In the fstab entry, I use _netdev, so systemd (or whoever) waits for the network to be up before attempting these mounts. This works fine. As long as I am not in KDE, the automount and all is working fantastic. We have another fly-in-the-ointment: We use a GPS+PPS+chrony to maintain Stratum 1 time on the Linux machine. It works great in a situation where the computers are turned on/off (a measurement vehicle on the road). We would like the Windows computers to sync time with the Linux host. So we have installed an NTP client on these systems. For this to work, the Linux system should have syncd time before the Windows computers start (or at least before the NTP client starts). Otherwise NTP can take a very long time for the Windows computers to have the correct time. (We have a NTP loopback so we can tell how the client differs from the NTP server.) The user can see that the Linux computer has the GPS time sync via a red/green ICON we maintain in the KDE status bar. Which you don't see until you log in with KDE. And if the Windows computers are not on yet, the KDE desktop will not behave. So it is hard to see when the Linux time is in sync so you can turn on the Windows computers. The only reason we have these Windows computers is that we have a couple of transducers that we have no choice but to use, and their access is Windows only. Otherwise we would be using our preferred diskless openSUSE setup that boots KIWI-generated images over the network. No need to shut them down as they start fresh each time. All changes are to RAM. -- Roger Oberholtzer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 28/01/2019 à 12:24, Roger Oberholtzer a écrit :
This is openSUSE 42.3, and what ever KDE is had.
similar with large usb drive jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019-01-28 6:24 a.m., Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
We have an interesting issue that I think is caused by KDE and recent locations. I think that when you start KDE, something is attempting to access directories that you have recently been in, for example in Dolphin. Sounds innocent.
maybe, just maybe, you are describing a side effect of something else. As far as I can tell KDE 'snapshots' what it is doing, what the program state is, periodically. It happens that I may be using KDE and some programs, say 'kpat' the game of cards/patience, but before I shut down I the machine I shut down kpat and maybe a few other things so that only TBird, FF and Konsole are there, what I consider my start-up suite. However when I start up the machine the next morning and log in KDE starts not with the core three but with kpat and the other applications that I shut down immediate before the machine shut-down. So I'm concluding that KDE snapshots some state. I wonder if you are facing something that if not exactly similar then it is something that emerges from what KDE considers it should start-up. Or perhaps the start-up sequence. I don't know why but when I start KDE each morning, FF starts significantly before the other application. Looking at the other relies in this thread, I'm reluctant to say what I'm observing is the ONLY thing going on, but perhaps something like the order of programs starting is a contribution. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019-01-28 7:56 a.m., Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2019-01-28 6:24 a.m., Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
We have an interesting issue that I think is caused by KDE and recent locations. I think that when you start KDE, something is attempting to access directories that you have recently been in, for example in Dolphin. Sounds innocent.
maybe, just maybe, you are describing a side effect of something else.
As far as I can tell KDE 'snapshots' what it is doing, what the program state is, periodically.
Yes, I have that enabled. In KDE settings -> Startup and Shutdown -> Background Services -> Desktop Session Login and Logout -> On Login I have "Restore previous Session" enables. I'm sure somewhere there is a the snapshot of that 'previous session' documented. Note also there is the option of excluding programs. I should put 'kpat' in there :-) -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/28/2019 07:23 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
Note also there is the option of excluding programs. I should put 'kpat' in there :-)
How great minds think alike. Has been a normal wind-down tradition at the end of the day for well over a decade -- best solitaire type game ever created :) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 30/01/2019 à 08:50, David C. Rankin a écrit :
On 01/28/2019 07:23 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
Note also there is the option of excluding programs. I should put 'kpat' in there :-)
How great minds think alike. Has been a normal wind-down tradition at the end of the day for well over a decade -- best solitaire type game ever created :)
yep :-) (48) jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op maandag 28 januari 2019 13:56:34 CET schreef Anton Aylward:
On 2019-01-28 6:24 a.m., Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
We have an interesting issue that I think is caused by KDE and recent locations. I think that when you start KDE, something is attempting to access directories that you have recently been in, for example in Dolphin. Sounds innocent.
maybe, just maybe, you are describing a side effect of something else.
As far as I can tell KDE 'snapshots' what it is doing, what the program state is, periodically.
It happens that I may be using KDE and some programs, say 'kpat' the game of cards/patience, but before I shut down I the machine I shut down kpat and maybe a few other things so that only TBird, FF and Konsole are there, what I consider my start-up suite.
However when I start up the machine the next morning and log in KDE starts not with the core three but with kpat and the other applications that I shut down immediate before the machine shut-down. So I'm concluding that KDE snapshots some state.
It's ksmserver AFAIK, and a setting is in systemsettings - startup and shutdown.
I wonder if you are facing something that if not exactly similar then it is something that emerges from what KDE considers it should start-up.
Or perhaps the start-up sequence. I don't know why but when I start KDE each morning, FF starts significantly before the other application.
Looking at the other relies in this thread, I'm reluctant to say what I'm observing is the ONLY thing going on, but perhaps something like the order of programs starting is a contribution.
> Q: Are you sure? > >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >> >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?
The problem is you're having a system mount, where that mount is not available all the time, and could hold open files. That's not a construction I would go for. You could have a look at fusesmb, of smbfs -- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 2:33 PM Knurpht-openSUSE <knurpht@opensuse.org> wrote:
However when I start up the machine the next morning and log in KDE starts not with the core three but with kpat and the other applications that I shut down immediate before the machine shut-down. So I'm concluding that KDE snapshots some state.
It's ksmserver AFAIK, and a setting is in systemsettings - startup and shutdown.
The problem is you're having a system mount, where that mount is not available all the time, and could hold open files. That's not a construction I would go for.
It does not hold open files. In one setup that is failing, the remote share was never available or accessed (except by some KDE component with a memory of what was accessed in a previous session). It is a remote folder just like any other. Surely a core design feature in any interactive system like a desktop would be that the whole desktop does not freeze because some component not in use is not available.
You could have a look at fusesmb, of smbfs
I will do so when I get access to the setup again. But I wonder how these fare when the remote system comes and goes - as remote systems are want to do. -- Roger Oberholtzer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (8)
-
Anton Aylward -
Bengt Gördén -
David C. Rankin -
jdd＠dodin.org -
Knurpht-openSUSE -
Peter Suetterlin -
Roger Oberholtzer -
Simon Becherer