[opensuse] Configuring DHCP client on Opensuse. Which one -- dhcpcd, dhclient or wicked?
I'm setting up a DHCP client on Opensuse. I'm coming from Debian; apparently things are done differently here in Opensuse. My very-techie friend also from Debian has given up trying to help me with figuring this out on Opensuse :-( This box is being set up as an edge router+firewall. It connects directly to an ISP's DSL modem - an AT&T Uverse-compatible Pace 5031NV. Iiuc, on Opensuse there are 3 different clients -- dhcpcd, dhclient & wicked. I don't know much of anything about 'wicked' yet. From reading in the docs https://www.suse.com/documentation/sles-12/book_sle_admin/data/sec_basicnet_... and a bunch of posts scattered acorss the mailing lists and bug reports it sounds like wicked is the right way going forward @ opensuse and that dhcpcd and dhclient are going away eventually. I really want to understand how to do this manually if I have to and am uncomfortable with 'fuzzy' configs scattered all over the place. 'Everybody' just keeps saying "use yast" to configure but won't answer the question *which* dhcp client is used in that case and where the config goes. The docs seems to bounce between using the old /etc/sysconfig/network/* configs and the new /etc/wicked/* configs. My questions for starters are (A) Is it true that on opensuse going forward wicked is the right way to configure network connections, and that all of its configs go into /etc/wicked/*? (B) Is there any documentation that gives an EXAMPLE of a working /etc/wicked/*-only config for connecting a server to an ISP's modem using DHCP? I'm not looking for an encyclopedia of options, there's already too much of that causing me confusion. I'm looking for a working, practical example I can start with and learn from. Cheers, Bob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On May 24, 2015 9:07:22 AM PDT, robert.devanna@nospammail.net wrote:
I'm setting up a DHCP client on Opensuse. I'm coming from Debian; apparently things are done differently here in Opensuse. My very-techie friend also from Debian has given up trying to help me with figuring this out on Opensuse :-(
This box is being set up as an edge router+firewall.
It connects directly to an ISP's DSL modem - an AT&T Uverse-compatible Pace 5031NV.
Iiuc, on Opensuse there are 3 different clients -- dhcpcd, dhclient & wicked.
I don't know much of anything about 'wicked' yet. From reading in the docs
https://www.suse.com/documentation/sles-12/book_sle_admin/data/sec_basicnet_...
and a bunch of posts scattered acorss the mailing lists and bug reports it sounds like wicked is the right way going forward @ opensuse and that dhcpcd and dhclient are going away eventually.
I really want to understand how to do this manually if I have to and am uncomfortable with 'fuzzy' configs scattered all over the place.
'Everybody' just keeps saying "use yast" to configure but won't answer the question *which* dhcp client is used in that case and where the config goes.
The docs seems to bounce between using the old /etc/sysconfig/network/* configs and the new /etc/wicked/* configs.
My questions for starters are
(A) Is it true that on opensuse going forward wicked is the right way to configure network connections, and that all of its configs go into /etc/wicked/*?
(B) Is there any documentation that gives an EXAMPLE of a working /etc/wicked/*-only config for connecting a server to an ISP's modem using DHCP? I'm not looking for an encyclopedia of options, there's already too much of that causing me confusion. I'm looking for a working, practical example I can start with and learn from.
Cheers,
Bob
Use Yast, and it will do it for you. It will choose, so you don't have to. If you are new to opensuse it is precisely NOT the time to start micromanaging the installation. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Use Yast, and it will do it for you. It will choose, so you don't have to.
If you are new to opensuse it is precisely NOT the time to start micromanaging the installation.
That's exactly the scenario that I said I'm NOT asking about. I'm not interested in blindly trusting some GUI especially around this wicked biz which obviously has been and still is in some sort of transition. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
robert.devanna@nospammail.net wrote:
Use Yast, and it will do it for you. It will choose, so you don't have to.
If you are new to opensuse it is precisely NOT the time to start micromanaging the installation.
That's exactly the scenario that I said I'm NOT asking about. I'm not interested in blindly trusting some GUI especially around this wicked biz which obviously has been and still is in some sort of transition.
I second John's suggestion, use YaST. wicked works very well for at least 95% of the use-cases. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.0°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-05-24 19:48, Per Jessen wrote:
robert.devanna@nospammail.net wrote:
Use Yast, and it will do it for you. It will choose, so you don't have to.
If you are new to opensuse it is precisely NOT the time to start micromanaging the installation.
That's exactly the scenario that I said I'm NOT asking about. I'm not interested in blindly trusting some GUI especially around this wicked biz which obviously has been and still is in some sort of transition.
I second John's suggestion, use YaST. wicked works very well for at least 95% of the use-cases.
Me too. We simply do not know nor care how to do it manually, specially since wicked is new for us and we don't know how to handle it manually, yet. And next release is apparently going to some new systemd service, so it becomes irrelevant as well. When you go to France, do as the French do - doesn't say that the saying? Don't fight against YaST. Not at the start, anyway. Learn the ropes first. If you use NetworkManager, the file /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf lets you choose the client. dhcp This key sets up what DHCP client NetworkManager will use. Presently dhclient and dhcpcd are supported. The client configured here should be available on your system too. If this key is missing, available DHCP clients are looked for in this order: dhclient, dhcpcd. As for documentation, we have a documentation site. https://activedoc.opensuse.org/book/opensuse-reference/chapter-16-dhcp The documentation says that the dhcp client choice is made by installing one or the other package. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 05/24/2015 12:07 PM, robert.devanna@nospammail.net wrote:
I'm setting up a DHCP client on Opensuse. I'm coming from Debian; apparently things are done differently here in Opensuse. My very-techie friend also from Debian has given up trying to help me with figuring this out on Opensuse :-(
This box is being set up as an edge router+firewall.
It connects directly to an ISP's DSL modem - an AT&T Uverse-compatible Pace 5031NV.
So, the openSuse box has TWO Ethernet connections, since it acting as firewall. I suspect you need BOTH client AND server. The end that is connected to the DSL modem runs 'client' most likely, since the ISP runs DHCP and hands out a single address. That is usually termed the 'red' side of the firewall. The "inside" or "blue" is the side of you LAN, probably connected to a switch of some sort. Well OK, there are multi-port cards for PCs. I did that once in the SCO/UNIX days, but these days 8 and 16 and even 32 port desktop switches are reasonably priced. Parsimonious me found one at a thrift store for $15. YMMV. This blue side runs the dhcp server to had out local addresses to devices on your LAN. This is a standard configuration. Somewhere along the line I did all this with IPCop. While I agree with your decision to use Shorewall, you might want to experiment with an IPCop setup as a learning example so you can see some of the issues. In short: You need dhclient (or client daemon) on the 'red' side You will see (RTFM) that they take a parameter for the interface to use dhcp-server or dnsmasq on the blue side. My preference is dnsmasq :-) Once again you can -- you MUST -- specify which interface to use. I would NOT use yast. Late model openSuse uses systemd and you can set up the startups for the client and the server as unit files. Parameters currently go in /etc/sysconfig.d, but this is evolving. Some units have arguments hard-wired. YMMV. Check the up to date documentation both for systemd and for the specific application and check the unit file to make sure. Yes, I set up a Shorewall based firewall once. Actually it was a three way. it had a DMZ as well. It was using Mandrake (in the days before they bankrupted). I can see why you would prefer Shorewall over the firewall that comes with openSuse :-) No argument with that :-0 Right now, you might want to visit the LiveCD site or do a google for a pre-built "appliance. Such as https://susestudio.com/a/4dMNWp/gatekeeper-with-shorewall (no longer supported but "You can clone the appliance, then upgrade and build with a current OS version. ") You might also want to ask about this on the Shorewall list. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton
This box is being set up as an edge router+firewall.
It connects directly to an ISP's DSL modem - an AT&T Uverse-compatible Pace 5031NV.
So, the openSuse box has TWO Ethernet connections, since it acting as firewall.
Yep.
I suspect you need BOTH client AND server.
Nope. I will provide NO inward-facing dhcpd service.
This is a standard configuration.
The modem's in a 'faux' bridge mode. It gets its dynamically assigned external IP from the ISP, running its own DHCP client. That IP is obvioulsy in 'real' address space. Configured for DMZ passthru, it passes THAT 'real' IP to it's internal intfc, and serves it to any connected device via a DHCPD server. The opensuse box's external interface needs to connect to THAT interface on the modem, getting ITS ip via dhcp client -- whichever one that ends up being.
Somewhere along the line I did all this with IPCop. While I agree with your decision to use Shorewall, you might want to experiment with an IPCop setup as a learning example so you can see some of the issues.
I don't need to learn any issues re: dhcp setup. I've been using Shorewall, dhcp, etc -- all of this -- for a long time. What I *DO* need to learn is how it's (best) done on Opensuse. THAT is what is NOT clear.
I would NOT use yast.
As I poke at it, YaST seems to install dhcp configs in /etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-* REGARDLESS of the priority that's set in /etc/wicked/client.xml <sources>...</sources> stanza. There is NO modification of ANY config in /etc/wicked/*. Seems to be that YaST presumes compat: mode, NOT new/native wicked: mode for networking config. I'm still looking into this. If/until a GUI tool behaves in an understood, documented and consistent fashion, I stick with cmd line and config files.
Yes, I set up a Shorewall based firewall once. Actually it was a three way. it had a DMZ as well.
I don't have a Shorewall DMZ in my current setup. The ISP modem/router has a DMZ functoinality -- which is used only because the silly thing doesn't provide a real bridge mode.
I can see why you would prefer Shorewall over the firewall that comes with openSuse :-) No argument with that :-0
Yep. It's both a lot more flexible imo, it's OS portable, got great docs, and does a great job of managing multiple firewalls for remote machines on a central admin box.
You might also want to ask about this on the Shorewall list.
There's really nothing about my question that's Shorewall-specific at all. Shorewall works exactly as expected. It's the 'conflict' with Susefirewall and interaction with Yast -- only in the Opensuse case -- that's in question. Cheers, Bob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
В Sun, 24 May 2015 09:07:22 -0700 robert.devanna@nospammail.net пишет:
I'm setting up a DHCP client on Opensuse. I'm coming from Debian; apparently things are done differently here in Opensuse. My very-techie friend also from Debian has given up trying to help me with figuring this out on Opensuse :-(
This box is being set up as an edge router+firewall.
It connects directly to an ISP's DSL modem - an AT&T Uverse-compatible Pace 5031NV.
Iiuc, on Opensuse there are 3 different clients -- dhcpcd, dhclient & wicked.
I don't know much of anything about 'wicked' yet. From reading in the docs
https://www.suse.com/documentation/sles-12/book_sle_admin/data/sec_basicnet_...
and a bunch of posts scattered acorss the mailing lists and bug reports it sounds like wicked is the right way going forward @ opensuse and that dhcpcd and dhclient are going away eventually.
They are still used by NetworkManager (although it now got built in DHCP client as well).
I really want to understand how to do this manually if I have to and am uncomfortable with 'fuzzy' configs scattered all over the place.
'Everybody' just keeps saying "use yast" to configure but won't answer the question *which* dhcp client is used in that case and where the config goes.
wicked has own built-in implementation. Source comments suggest this was inspired by dhcpcd if it matters for you.
The docs seems to bounce between using the old /etc/sysconfig/network/* configs and the new /etc/wicked/* configs.
My questions for starters are
(A) Is it true that on opensuse going forward wicked is the right way to configure network connections, and that all of its configs go into /etc/wicked/*?
By default wicked is configured to use old style configuration in /etc/sysconfig/network. You can additionally (or instead) use native configuration which by default goes into /etc/wicked/ifconfig.
(B) Is there any documentation that gives an EXAMPLE of a working /etc/wicked/*-only config for connecting a server to an ISP's modem using DHCP? I'm not looking for an encyclopedia of options, there's already too much of that causing me confusion. I'm looking for a working, practical example I can start with and learn from.
Start with configuring using yast. Use wicked show-config to dump current configuration, and then man wicked-config for list of options if you insist on manually editing it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Andrei
and a bunch of posts scattered acorss the mailing lists and bug reports it sounds like wicked is the right way going forward @ opensuse and that dhcpcd and dhclient are going away eventually.
They are still used by NetworkManager (although it now got built in DHCP client as well).
Ok. I'm server-only , so NetworkManager isn't even consideration.
'Everybody' just keeps saying "use yast" to configure but won't answer the question *which* dhcp client is used in that case and where the config goes.
wicked has own built-in implementation. Source comments suggest this was inspired by dhcpcd if it matters for you.
Not sure that it matters, but it explains the similar way of doing things. And probably why the docs are a hodgepodge of both.
(A) Is it true that on opensuse going forward wicked is the right way to configure network connections, and that all of its configs go into /etc/wicked/*?
By default wicked is configured to use old style configuration in /etc/sysconfig/network. You can additionally (or instead) use native configuration which by default goes into /etc/wicked/ifconfig.
That's what I thought. I changed the default priority vi /etc/wicked/client.xml ... <sources> + <ifconfig location="wicked:/etc/wicked/ifconfig" /> <ifconfig location="firmware:" /> <ifconfig location="compat:" /> - <ifconfig location="wicked:/etc/wicked/ifconfig" /> </sources> ... but saw NO change in YaST2's behavior. Like I mentioned earlier the config's still dumped into compat:-mode's legacy form & location -- as ifcfg-* files in /etc/sysconfig/network. But reading your comment "you can" is different that "Yast does". I guess that means that if I *do* manually config (looks llike I have to because the Yast tool doesn't) in /etc/wicked/*, then the config should get picked up. I'll play around with that to test.
Use wicked show-config to dump current configuration, and then man wicked-config for list of options
The 'show-config' tidbit is one thing I was missing. That generates a decent example. I still have to verify that if I edit/move that output to properly configs /etc/wicked/* that those changes are picked up correctly and in correct priority.
if you insist on manually editing it.
What tool automatically edits configs in /etc/wicked/*? Like I said Yast2 here doesn't seem to. Maybe I missed some other system setting or config. Cheers, Bob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-05-24 21:07, robert.devanna@nospammail.net wrote:
What tool automatically edits configs in /etc/wicked/*? Like I said Yast2 here doesn't seem to. Maybe I missed some other system setting or config.
The traditional YaST behaviour is that it reads and writes /etc/sysconfig/, and writes elsewhere, not read (with some variations). Traditionally also you can also disable YaST from further modifying config files, because the admin is going to do the config himself - but this behaviour has differences in how it is done or achieved (like manual or automatic) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlViTCMACgkQja8UbcUWM1w5FgD7BGQSMAk8LP0bW3y+0X7W1HfH ZBJ++GJfS2/YSTm/an0A/AhGlf/pWUDDwOhWReFE661hu5fOfvtgcsEqWMatYOcl =H4uZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
В Sun, 24 May 2015 12:07:26 -0700 robert.devanna@nospammail.net пишет:
Andrei
and a bunch of posts scattered acorss the mailing lists and bug reports it sounds like wicked is the right way going forward @ opensuse and that dhcpcd and dhclient are going away eventually.
They are still used by NetworkManager (although it now got built in DHCP client as well).
Ok. I'm server-only , so NetworkManager isn't even consideration.
Not sure what makes NM wrong for a server. ...
but saw NO change in YaST2's behavior. Like I mentioned earlier the config's still dumped into compat:-mode's legacy form & location -- as ifcfg-* files in /etc/sysconfig/network.
But reading your comment "you can" is different that "Yast does". I guess that means that if I *do* manually config (looks llike I have to because the Yast tool doesn't) in /etc/wicked/*, then the config should get picked up.
Yes. YaST still edits "legacy" configuration files and wicked has pretty extensive support for them, so I have never seen any real need to mess up with wicked native XML configuration formats. Definitely not in the case when all you want to do is to simply auto configure interface by DHCP. May be one missing piece is to set "on carrier" flag which translates to "use nanny" in wicked. That has to be set up manually and I do not think it is per-interface as before. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, May 24, 2015, at 08:26 PM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
Not sure what makes NM wrong for a server.
NM is instrumented for enabling interfaces during interactive user sessions. It starts/stops the network asynchronously (At least it used to ... haven't paid any attention to it for at least a year). Service management for complex/multiple interface setups with strict order dependencies is not in scope. wicked + systemd is appropriately predictable, controllable (both sync & async), and avoids much of NM's unncessary-to-the-server bloat.
Yes. YaST still edits "legacy" configuration files and wicked has pretty extensive support for them, so I have never seen any real need to mess up with wicked native XML configuration formats. Definitely not in the case when all you want to do is to simply auto configure interface by DHCP.
For the simplest case, maybe not. That is my FIRST dependency, but will not be my only one. Doing a little historical digging it seems that wicked was selected as the next-gen stack, and the legacy stack was abandoned . The move to wicked broke a lot of functionality. Is seems some is getting fixed. Lack of docs makes it difficult to figure out what will continue to be supported; atm there's a lot of hopping between man pages, posts & bugs needed. And although wicked's intent may have been to have extensive support for legacy network configs, it dropped the ball. Based on the facts of what happened, and that so far I can't find any official commentary on why it was handled the way it was, I prefer to find what is DEFINITELY going to stick around. Atm, plans for legacy support are unclear. I've read the @suse docs several times, but I can't get a firm handle on what's broken, what's being fixed, and what the future plans are for functionality and legacy support, even if only for the next release. But, I am convinced wicked-only is here to stay.
May be one missing piece is to set "on carrier" flag which translates to "use nanny" in wicked. That has to be set up manually and I do not think it is per-interface as before.
Already had set nanny on manually with - <use-nanny>false</use-nanny> + <use-nanny>true</use-nanny> and am seeing what it does. In the end I'm following Anton's line of advice and avoiding YaST altogether, sticking with manual edit of config files, & only in the wicked: mode locations. And for dhcp, using wicked's native dhcp functionality. Cheers, Bob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-05-25 06:00, robert.devanna@nospammail.net wrote:
On Sun, May 24, 2015, at 08:26 PM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
Not sure what makes NM wrong for a server.
NM is instrumented for enabling interfaces during interactive user sessions.
Not really. You can easily configure it to start on boot, without any session active. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlVjNxQACgkQja8UbcUWM1wSdQEAjThWyN0Z+Mv0wtXZBIObS8R6 sniLLNBqR8zibPq35YAA/AyIo1SswYtSZA8LDoD4FMtuHLYTFc9Qe7TzhLGOfWsF =YIae -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
robert.devanna@nospammail.net wrote:
Yes. YaST still edits "legacy" configuration files and wicked has pretty extensive support for them, so I have never seen any real need to mess up with wicked native XML configuration formats. Definitely not in the case when all you want to do is to simply auto configure interface by DHCP.
For the simplest case, maybe not.
That is my FIRST dependency, but will not be my only one.
Doing a little historical digging it seems that wicked was selected as the next-gen stack, and the legacy stack was abandoned . The move to wicked broke a lot of functionality. Is seems some is getting fixed. Lack of docs makes it difficult to figure out what will continue to be supported; atm there's a lot of hopping between man pages, posts & bugs needed.
And although wicked's intent may have been to have extensive support for legacy network configs, it dropped the ball.
That does not really correspond to my experience with wicked. Overall we have a fairly varied network setup - regular interfaces, dhcp, wifi, ipv6, ipip tunnels, vpn, xen and lxc bridges - all of this has sofar worked very well with wicked. The only little hurdle I remember was the nanny being disabled by default. I don't use YaST much for network configs, I tend to edit /etc/sysconfig/network/* directly. YMMV. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.8°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/26/2015 02:30 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
I don't use YaST much for network configs, I tend to edit /etc/sysconfig/network/* directly. YMMV.
I suspect that the 80% case that such tools and the limited view that things like yast presents (when compared to using the CLI and as you say editing the config files directly ( http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/real_programmers.png I'll settle for VIM, thank you kindly :-) ) get past the constraints that the GUI designers force on us. If you're happy with those constraints then fine, but so many of the threads here on this forum seem to be in that 20% of cases that the GUI designers never conceived of or variants such as * The GUI gives a "There's been an error" popup but doesn't tell you what the erro was or what caused it or what you can do about it. heck, they don't even say RTFM any more! * "retry, continue, abort" is unhelpful since it tells you nothing about the consequences. Does "Abort" clean up the files or leave them dangling half completed? What if you just shut down that prompt window or kill the process? What results from continuing after an error? I admit that running from the CLI may require a "-v" or "-vvvvvvvv" and you have to be able to interpret that the writer chose (see arguments above) or failed to chose as informative output. Perhaps it only reflected the problems he encountered while debugging, but that too tells you a lot! See http://xkcd.com/1319/ Of course many problems on this forum are really "RTFM' or "GoGoggle" class problems: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/manuals.png :-) http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/devotion_to_duty.png -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/26/2015 02:30 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
I don't use YaST much for network configs, I tend to edit /etc/sysconfig/network/* directly. YMMV.
I suspect that the 80% case that such tools and the limited view that things like yast presents (when compared to using the CLI and as you say editing the config files directly ( http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/real_programmers.png I'll settle for VIM, thank you kindly :-) ) get past the constraints that the GUI designers force on us.
I don't mind the contraints, YaST does a pretty good job, I just generally edit the network config files directly because it's faster than firing up YaST. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.6°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Personally, I think that it can be a progression... When you're starting out on linux, it's wonderful to have something like YaST to basically hold your hand and shield you from the config files, especially for modifications that touch multiple files. But as you get more comfortable, it's often-times much easier (and quicker) to just hit the config file directly, especially with more customized or advanced changes. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Christopher Myers wrote:
Personally, I think that it can be a progression... When you're starting out on linux, it's wonderful to have something like YaST to basically hold your hand and shield you from the config files, especially for modifications that touch multiple files. But as you get more comfortable, it's often-times much easier (and quicker) to just hit the config file directly, especially with more customized or advanced changes.
Exactly. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.8°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/27/2015 01:11 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Christopher Myers wrote:
Personally, I think that it can be a progression... When you're starting out on linux, it's wonderful to have something like YaST to basically hold your hand and shield you from the config files, especially for modifications that touch multiple files. But as you get more comfortable, it's often-times much easier (and quicker) to just hit the config file directly, especially with more customized or advanced changes. Exactly.
From the perspective of just an average home computer user who happens to use Linux and loves it: I want a GUI for stuff. I stopped using the command line with Windows 1. Before Windows 1 I had extensive BAT files to run my computer. But no more. I just want something that works without me spending hours learning a programming language. Looking at config files is like trying to read Martian or something. I don't have a clue and have better things to do with my time. No thank you. I don't futz around with my installations. I pop in the downloaded DVD/CD, answer the questions of the installation program and leave it alone to install. Whatever the installation program does seems to work just fine for me. My computer is stable. I don't have issues. Everything just works. I can get on with what I use my computer for. Over time I have learned what peripherals work with Linux and what doesn't. All my computers are AMD with Radeon graphics. I only buy HP printers, not just because they work well with Linux but because they work forever AND work great with Linux. Etc. The developers have created some very nice GUI tools to help me get stuff done. I use them. Thank you developers. To all you that are old timers and have used Linux from day one. My hat is off to you. It's thanks to you for being there and making Linux workable for me. Without you guys, and gals I suppose, Linux may not have been developed to the level it is today. -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (8)
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Andrei Borzenkov -
Anton Aylward -
Billie Walsh -
Carlos E. R. -
Christopher Myers -
John Andersen -
Per Jessen -
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