[opensuse] Revolution in networking - possible ?
hi all ! Few days ago I was at Cisco Expo 2007 in Israel, and came across truly revolutionary technology demo: WAAS. This technology is able to locally intercept and ack TCP-sessions as well as do application-layer-specific optimizations, and the performance win was HUGE - something like 10x-20x fold win ! ! ! http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/app_ntwk_services/waas/waas/v401/configurati... http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps6870/index.html This results in downloading multi-megabyte files over the Internet in just few seconds ! (instead of minutes). I was totally shocked when I saw this in action. Unfortunately, Cisco and their pricing are out-of-reach for home users. Is there anything Open-Source on Linux that have similar functionality ? -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 01 June 2007 14:16, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
hi all !
Few days ago I was at Cisco Expo 2007 in Israel, and came across truly revolutionary technology demo: WAAS.
Someone should have told them about GPS. But then, TLAs are highly overloaded, there's little reason four-letter ones won't be, too.
...
Unfortunately, Cisco and their pricing are out-of-reach for home users.
Is there anything Open-Source on Linux that have similar functionality ?
Squid? http://www.squid-cache.org/
-Alexey Eremenko "Technologov"
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Is there anything Open-Source on Linux that have similar functionality ?
Randall Schulz wrote:
Squid?
AFAIK, Squid can only accelerate something if it's cached, that is, was downloaded once. while WAAS accelerate both cached and non-cached data. -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 01 June 2007 14:37, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Is there anything Open-Source on Linux that have similar functionality ?
Randall Schulz wrote:
Squid?
AFAIK, Squid can only accelerate something if it's cached, that is, was downloaded once.while WAAS accelerate both cached and non-cached data.
I'd characterize that as "similar functionality." Besides, I find it hard to believe it can speed-up the retrieval of something it doesn't have immediately available to serve locally. Even if it has something to do with the selective compression, that's only going to increase latency on the initial fetch and without a large population of users behind the device to amortize the costs it imposes, there's less potential for overall improvement.
-- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov"
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I'd characterize that as "similar functionality."
Besides, I find it hard to believe it can speed-up the retrieval of something it doesn't have immediately available to serve locally. Even if it has something to do with the selective compression, that's only going to increase latency on the initial fetch and without a large population of users behind the device to amortize the costs it imposes, there's less potential for overall improvement.
But it works ! Non-cached data flows very fast with WAAS. WAAS also has good optimization for SMB protocol. What about Squid ? -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 01 June 2007 15:22, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
I'd characterize that as "similar functionality."
Besides, I find it hard to believe it can speed-up the retrieval of something it doesn't have immediately available to serve locally. Even if it has something to do with the selective compression, that's only going to increase latency on the initial fetch and without a large population of users behind the device to amortize the costs it imposes, there's less potential for overall improvement.
But it works!
You saw a carefully crafted demo. Don't assume you'd see similar performance in a real-world situation. You know what they say: Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV)
Non-cached data flows very fast with WAAS. WAAS also has good optimization for SMB protocol. What about Squid ?
Don't ask me. I've never used it. http://www.squid-cache.org/ http://www.google.com/
-- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov"
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 01 June 2007 17:36, Randall R Schulz wrote:
You saw a carefully crafted demo. Don't assume you'd see similar performance in a real-world situation.
You know what they say: Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV)
Non-cached data flows very fast with WAAS.
Taking speedup of 10x it is probably text compressed on the fly. Linux can do that see http://rute.2038bug.com/ -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 01 June 2007 17:47, Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday 01 June 2007 17:36, Randall R Schulz wrote:
You saw a carefully crafted demo. Don't assume you'd see similar performance in a real-world situation.
You know what they say: Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV)
Non-cached data flows very fast with WAAS.
Taking speedup of 10x it is probably text compressed on the fly. Linux can do that see http://rute.2038bug.com/
Given the types of data that currently comprise the bulk of WWW traffic, only the markup formats, principally HTML or XHTML and the occasional XML document themselves, bear much compression. All the other formats, images, audio, Flash, archive files, etc. are already well compressed. I suppose once SVG becomes common, it might benefit from compression, too (it's an XML format). This same approach has been taken by some ISPs. You install some proprietary (usually Windows-only) software and by then funneling all your traffic through their proxy servers, they can cache and compress the select objects. They've mostly been hype-heavy, and have not, to my knowledge, seen widespread adoption.
-- Regards, Rajko.
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 01 June 2007 20:03, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Friday 01 June 2007 17:47, Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday 01 June 2007 17:36, Randall R Schulz wrote:
You saw a carefully crafted demo. Don't assume you'd see similar performance in a real-world situation.
You know what they say: Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV)
Non-cached data flows very fast with WAAS.
Taking speedup of 10x it is probably text compressed on the fly. Linux can do that see http://rute.2038bug.com/
Given the types of data that currently comprise the bulk of WWW traffic, only the markup formats, principally HTML or XHTML and the occasional XML document themselves, bear much compression. All the other formats, images, audio, Flash, archive files, etc. are already well compressed. I suppose once SVG becomes common, it might benefit from compression, too (it's an XML format).
This same approach has been taken by some ISPs. You install some proprietary (usually Windows-only) software and by then funneling all your traffic through their proxy servers, they can cache and compress the select objects. They've mostly been hype-heavy, and have not, to my knowledge, seen widespread adoption.
Agree. I got few questions about accelerated option and advice was not to buy. Once page is downloaded it will be used from cache and there will be no difference except in the wallet :-) The above was example how it may work, and it was selected intentionally to show speed. It is mostly html/text and idea came from your comment "specially crafted" :-) . There is no "non-compressed" version that we can compare with, but there is a lot of similar pages that can be used for that purpose. I can't barely see difference on pretty good sized broadband, but someone on dialup should see substantial difference to similar pages, and the most important with Linux you don't need external software. -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 01 June 2007 18:57, Rajko M. wrote:
...
I can't barely see difference on pretty good sized broadband, but someone on dialup should see substantial difference to similar pages, and the most important with Linux you don't need external software.
It was definitely a dial-up-only service. As broadband adoption increases, this optimization, to the extent it ever was a genuine optimization, will fade away.
-- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 01 June 2007, Randall R Schulz wrote:
You saw a carefully crafted demo. Don't assume you'd see similar performance in a real-world situation.
What do you call "Real World"? Cisco is not about to try to sell something with fraudulent demos. After all, they do stand behind their products and would have to answer to their customers. The documentation clearly points out the areas and methods where this technology will be useful, and it is aimed at the corporate environment, with wide area networks, not general web browsing or home users downloading ISOs of opensuse. It requires their products on both ends as is clearly shown in the referenced URLs. In its intended environment, I see no reason it could not achieve the results it claims and no reason to assume carefully crafted test scenarios. So much of the traffic across corporate lans/wans is composed of static files or seldom changing files or easily compressible files that any half way intelligent caching, buffering, compression imposed at the network level could easily achieve these results. The only misunderstanding here was on the part of the OP, in not realizing that this was intended for the corporate world, and not home use. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, Jun 02, 2007 at 12:16:31AM +0300, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
hi all !
Few days ago I was at Cisco Expo 2007 in Israel, and came across truly revolutionary technology demo: WAAS. This technology is able to locally intercept and ack TCP-sessions as well as do application-layer-specific optimizations, and the performance win was HUGE - something like 10x-20x fold win ! ! !
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/app_ntwk_services/waas/waas/v401/configurati... http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps6870/index.html
This results in downloading multi-megabyte files over the Internet in just few seconds ! (instead of minutes). I was totally shocked when I saw this in action.
Unfortunately, Cisco and their pricing are out-of-reach for home users.
Is there anything Open-Source on Linux that have similar functionality ?
Looks much like what a transparent proxy setup using Squid could do. (Where squid would retrieve the remote data using compression, even if the client did not ask for compression.) Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Alexey Eremenko wrote:
hi all !
Few days ago I was at Cisco Expo 2007 in Israel, and came across truly revolutionary technology demo: WAAS. This technology is able to locally intercept and ack TCP-sessions as well as do application-layer-specific optimizations, and the performance win was HUGE - something like 10x-20x fold win ! ! !
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/app_ntwk_services/waas/waas/v401/configurati...
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps6870/index.html
This results in downloading multi-megabyte files over the Internet in just few seconds ! (instead of minutes). I was totally shocked when I saw this in action.
Unfortunately, Cisco and their pricing are out-of-reach for home users.
Is there anything Open-Source on Linux that have similar functionality ?
I didn't see any claims in there about improving file transfers, only about combining techniques to improve efficiency. One thing you have to bear in mind is that any channel has some fixed bandwidth limit, which cannot be exceeded. You can apply various tricks, such as compression etc., to improve data through put, but sooner or later you're going to hit that bandwidth limit. So, if you took data, with a lot of redundancy, you could compress it to a small fraction of it's size, transmit it and then uncompress at far end. This would give the appearance of having transmitted far more data, but in fact, you've only reduced the amout of data that had to be transmitted. This is a common, everyday function in modems, cell phones, image files and many, many other examples. Back in the dialup modem days, a common technique was Van Jacobson compression, where the headers were reduced, be elimiating redundant data. So, no you will not be able to download a huge file, in a short time, unless it has a lot of redundant info. -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
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Alexey Eremenko -
James Knott -
John Andersen -
Marcus Meissner -
Rajko M. -
Randall R Schulz