Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

Patrick

29 Nov 2001 29 Nov '01

02:19

Hi all I thought this might interest someone that is about ready to get a new system. It seems, that even AMD's low end is better than Intel's high end stuff. :-)

...

-----Original Message----- From: AMD Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 3:28 PM Subject: Tom's Hardware reviews Duron 1200 MHz. States Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

Just when I thought I had SEEN and heard it all... Check this out-

Tom's Hardware compares Duron 1.2Ghz to P4 and Celeron 1.2GHz http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q4/011116/index.html Conclusion: Our comprehensive benchmark analysis has shown that, in some disciplines, the new AMD Duron 1200 is even marginally faster than an Intel Pentium 4/1500. The Duron's strengths come clearly to the fore in 3D games still based on DirectX 7. Under DirectX 8, the Duron 1200 is still somewhat faster than the direct competition from Intel, the Celeron 1200, but, the low-cost CPU still can't outstrip Intel's Pentium 4. Encoding MP3s is another story, however - the Duron 1200 tops the Pentium 4/1400. The results in the MPEG-4 encoding and Linux compilation benchmarks are proof enough that this low-end processor is in the same performance ballpark as substantially more expensive CPUs. In these disciplines, the fastest Duron today, clocked at 1200 MHz, even beats the Intel Pentium 4/1500. With that kind of performance, Intel's Celeron 1200 isn't serious competition for the AMD Duron 1200. The Intel CPU manages to score well only in selected benchmark disciplines. But this fact isn't likely to bother Intel - after all, most Celeron processors are sold in the OEM sector, where the system's performance isn't the main selling point. But the AMD Duron 1200 is a different animal - in addition to selling well in the OEM segment, it also does well in the end-consumer market. And the latter clientele is very interested in performance criteria. The position of Intel's Celeron 1200 is threatened somewhat - although the Socket 370 platform may be very stable, it's no longer up-to-date. For example, the popular chipset Intel 815EPT only supports 64 MB RAM for the AGP. Modern graphics adapters with a GeForce 3 chip require a reserve of at least 128 MB for texture-heavy applications. This is a problem that the Duron 1200, based on the Socket 462 platform, doesn't have.

Richard D. Marple Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. Field Sales Representative AMD Dallas Sales Office 4965 Preston Park Blvd. Suite 160 Plano, Texas 75093 Office: 972-985-1344 Cell: 214-585-3428 Fax: 972-985-8527 AMD Website: http:\\www.amd.com

Authorized Distribution-

http://www.amd.com/us-en/protected/Processors/SellAMDProducts/1,,30_1 77_32 10,00.html?1003242941

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lester＠lsces.co.uk

29 Nov 29 Nov

07:13

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

...

I thought this might interest someone that is about ready to get a new system. It seems, that even AMD's low end is better than Intel's high end stuff. :-)

It's fairly common knowledge around here. The only problem is convincing customers that they don't need an Intel chip. One of mine was about to buy 10 £2000 Pentium machines to update his drawing office, until I showed him the same application on a £1000 Athlon machine. Much faster, and things improved even more with 1Gb of DDR ram - try buying that in RIMM <g> -- Lester Caine ----------------------------- L.S.Caine Electronic Services

Jon Biddell

09:09

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

At 07:13 29/11/01 +0000, lester@lsces.co.uk wrote:

...

...
I thought this might interest someone that is about ready to get a new system. It seems, that even AMD's low end is better than Intel's high end stuff. :-)

It's fairly common knowledge around here. The only problem is convincing customers that they don't need an Intel chip. One of mine was about to buy 10 £2000 Pentium machines to update his drawing office, until I showed him the same application on a £1000 Athlon machine. Much faster, and things improved even more with 1Gb of DDR ram - try buying that in RIMM <g>

Lester (and others), I'm in the market for a grunt-box as a dedicated Linux workstation (well, with a removable hard drive, as it will play the occasional Evilware game of Total Annihilation, assuming I can't get that working under WINE or similar). I have to admit, I was leanint towards a P4/1.6GHz or better, but the Athlon XP is several hundred Australian Pesos cheaper..... What are your thoughts on DUAL Athlon machines, specifically with regards to cooling and performance ? Any motherboards to stay AWAY from (I prefer non-integrated boards to those with sound/lan on-board, as I will be running an SB Audigy and probably a RAEDON video card - I need the SB for both sound and Firewire for Video Editing). Jon

lester＠lsces.co.uk

09:31

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

...

What are your thoughts on DUAL Athlon machines, specifically with regards to cooling and performance ?

It's an area I don't bother with - we just put more single machines on the network and loadshare. We are using the Firebird database, and so extra copies don't cost anything - just the hardware <g> Before anybody askes - the loadshare is simply changing which client machine talks to which server - even that is simple! -- Lester Caine ----------------------------- L.S.Caine Electronic Services

Graham Smith

12:31

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 18:13, lester@lsces.co.uk wrote:

...

...
I thought this might interest someone that is about ready to get a new system. It seems, that even AMD's low end is better than Intel's high end stuff. :-)

It's fairly common knowledge around here. The only problem is convincing customers that they don't need an Intel chip. One of mine was about to buy 10 £2000 Pentium machines to update his drawing office, until I showed him the same application on a £1000 Athlon machine. Much faster, and things improved even more with 1Gb of DDR ram - try buying that in RIMM <g>

Hi, I need to buy four new machines for the office to be used as workstations, and was after some guidance on the motherboard and CPU. Will probably equip them with 256M of ram and the Matrox G450 Video card and 20G IDE Hard disk. Can anyone recommend a decent motherboard that works without problems. A few of my friends have had problems with the AMD processors and recommend the P4. I think the main problems is getting a stable board that is specifically designed for the AMD processors. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, Graham Smith ----------------------------------------

lester＠lsces.co.uk

13:56

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

Assuming Oz gets the same supplies as the UK, most of the big names have stable product. I've just installed and ASUS A7A226 which has AGP and DDR. No problems with 1.4GHz Athlon. Only thing I would say is make sure you have a good fan/heatsink. I'm running one that has the fan in the top of a circular heatsink, and it's running a good 10oC lower than the original fan on top unit. It is also a little quieter, but the machine live outside so I done hear them <g>. -- Lester Caine ----------------------------- L.S.Caine Electronic Services

Jon Pennington

15:51

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

--- Jon Biddell wrote:

...

What are your thoughts on DUAL Athlon machines, specifically with regards to cooling and performance ?

Well, since there are only two of them, and they're made by Tyan, they're mustard. :P

...

Any motherboards to stay AWAY from (I prefer non-integrated boards to those with sound/lan on-board,

Again; there are two. Thunder and Trinity? You don't want the Thunder, since it's a server-class board with everything and a cherry on top. Dual 3Com nics, ATI (mach64) video, U160 SCSI... P.S. - Don't try and use a removable disk if you want any performance out of it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. From the other sounds of it, you want more than a grunt-box. Gaming, sound, and video editing? I'd hate to see what you do when you're trying to get *work* done... ===== -- -=|JP|=- '01 B15 SE/PP | http://www.xanga.com/cowboydren/ | < '95 SL2 Auto | cowboydren @ yahoo . com | __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Tim Prince

16:00

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

One of the problems with AMD boxes is that customers aren't familiar with all the ways in which they may be configured wrongly by white box vendors, and the number of weeks it takes to set this right. We lost a week finding out that AthlonMP won't work without registered DDR (yes, it runs about 80% speed with 1 stick of non-registered DDR, not 2), and the vendor has yet to make good on it after 3 weeks. Not easy to find registered DDR in western USA. Not to mention the BIOS which frequently disables control keys and mouse. Why do the new boxes (with both Intel and AMD CPU's) have so many BIOS bugs? Who would buy an AthlonMP simply to run as set up by the vendor (Win98)? Who would knowingly wish to spend 40% of the time in the OS kernel, rather than in their own applications, simply to prove that the OS kernel doesn't run any better on Intel's finest than on AMD? Does anyone have good tools to measure this on an AMD linux box? Yes, the OS kernel time rises on WinXP over what it is with linux or Win2K, when using SCSI drives. Plenty of reasons for sales resistance, no matter which brand you consider. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

...

...
I thought this might interest someone that is about ready to get a new system. It seems, that even AMD's low end is better than Intel's high end stuff. :-)

It's fairly common knowledge around here. The only problem is convincing customers that they don't need an Intel chip. One of mine was about to buy 10 £2000 Pentium machines to update his drawing office, until I showed him the same application on a £1000 Athlon machine. Much faster, and things improved even more with 1Gb of DDR ram - try buying that in RIMM <g>

-- Lester Caine ----------------------------- L.S.Caine Electronic Services

Jon Pennington

16:02

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

--- Graham Smith wrote:

...

I need to buy four new machines for the office to be used as workstations, and was after some guidance on the motherboard and CPU. Will probably equip them with 256M of ram and the Matrox G450 Video card and 20G IDE Hard disk.

Sounds solid. Just slap a Tyan motherboard underneath it, and you'll be ready to go.

...

Can anyone recommend a decent motherboard that works without problems.

It doesn't exist. With a Tyan-brand board, though, you'll have *fewer* problems. I also like (from experience) EPoX, MSI, Gigabyte, and I like the looks of the QDI KD7-A, but have no experience with it. I have never had a decent EPoX motherboard with an Intel chipset on it, but that's my only caveat. I also have extremely bad luck with any orange PCB devices of any type (don't ask) and prefer to stick with green. Also, you should buy it on a Tuesday. Just kidding about the Tuesday bit...

...

I think the main problems is getting a stable board that is specifically designed for the AMD processors.

This statement doesn't make sense. You can't put an AMD processor on a board designed for another CPU...they're such different animals. The chipset on the board is what's important; if you want speed, you can't have stability. If you want stability, you can't have speed; they're mutually exclusive. Or, if you prefer, "Good, Fast, Cheap; pick any two." :) Here's an article on some new ones: http://www.tomshardware.com/mainboard/01q4/011126/index.html

...

Any help would be appreciated.

Don't take offense, but it looks like you need a lot... ===== -- -=|JP|=- '01 B15 SE/PP | http://www.xanga.com/cowboydren/ | < '95 SL2 Auto | cowboydren @ yahoo . com | __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Tim Prince

16:10

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

Our dual AthlonMP/1200's have not had the thermal problems we have seen with other recent products. According to my understanding, there is only one Tyan motherboard compatible with this. The first truly annoying "feature" is that the BIOS frequently disables control keys and mouse clicks; the second is the propensity of vendors to supply the wrong style of RAM. It requires registered DDR, which seems difficult to obtain in the USA. Otherwise, it's a good enough product to embarrass Intel. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Biddell" To: ; Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 1:09 AM Subject: Re: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz. At 07:13 29/11/01 +0000, lester@lsces.co.uk wrote:

...

...
I thought this might interest someone that is about ready to get a new system. It seems, that even AMD's low end is better than Intel's high end stuff. :-)

It's fairly common knowledge around here. The only problem is convincing customers that they don't need an Intel chip. One of mine was about to buy 10 £2000 Pentium machines to update his drawing office, until I showed him the same application on a £1000 Athlon machine. Much faster, and things improved even more with 1Gb of DDR ram - try buying that in RIMM <g>

Jon Pennington

16:22

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

--- Tim Prince wrote:

...

According to my understanding, there is only one Tyan motherboard compatible with this.

No, there are two. The Thunder K7 is for servers, the Tiger MP is for workstations. Each has the AMD 760MP chipset, and seem to run far better than any Intel SMP machine I've ever seen for the same price.

...

The first truly annoying "feature" is that the BIOS frequently disables control keys and mouse clicks;

How old is your BIOS?

...

the second is the propensity of vendors to supply the wrong style of RAM. It requires registered DDR, which seems difficult to obtain in the USA.

It's not difficult to find, it's just difficult to buy from idiot vendors. Good, Fast, Cheap; pick any two...

...

Otherwise, it's a good enough product to embarrass Intel.

:%s/it\'s\ a/they\'re/ :%s/product/products/ Amen, brother. ===== -- -=|JP|=- '01 B15 SE/PP | http://www.xanga.com/cowboydren/ | < '95 SL2 Auto | cowboydren @ yahoo . com | __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Lourens Steenkamp

18:45

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

...

Hi,

I need to buy four new machines for the office to be used as workstations, and was after some guidance on the motherboard and CPU. Will probably equip them with 256M of ram and the Matrox G450 Video card and 20G IDE Hard disk.

Can anyone recommend a decent motherboard that works without problems. A few of my friends have had problems with the AMD processors and recommend

On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 23:31:49 +1100 Graham Smith wrote: [large snip] the P4.

...

I think the main problems is getting a stable board that is specifically designed for the AMD processors.

Any help would be appreciated.

I have just been through the process of replacing the internals in my machine. After my experiences with the Asus A7V133(A) I did not even bother to look at their offerings ... I settled for the Epox 8KHA+, an AMD XP 1600+ and DDR RAM. SuSE 7.2 Prof installed and has been working like a charm for the past week, I'll do a kernel compile this weekend. I am also using an nVidia 4x AGP (TNT2 M64 32MB), a SoundBlaster (aka Ensoniq 1371 PCI)(disabled the mobo's onboard pseudo sound card) and a 3COM905B. BTW. The mobo uses a Winbond W83697HF sensors chip that the sensors package does not have a driver for - I'll need to find one? Compared to my previous T-Bird 1.2GHz CPU based A7V133 - much faster and much, much cooler. HTH *** If you find a solution and become attached to it, the solution may become your next problem. *** Powered by SuSE Linux 7.2 Professional and AMD Athlon XP1600+ Registered Linux User Lourens Steenkamp Republic of South Africa

Patrick

19:24

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz outperforms P4 at 1400 MHz.

Graham, I think you might actually find some nice AMD specific motherboards available now. There is a new one from MSI now using the AMD761 and a Ultra160 SCSI onboard. Expensive but very nicely equipped for high end usage. On the other end, take a look at the ECS K7S5A motherboard with the SiS735A chipset. Very nicely reviewed, very inexpensive and touted to be one of the best for overclocking of any available. Comparable to or exceeds the VIA KT266A chipset plus it takes either SDRAM or DDR. There are some good ones from Tyan, always a good choice, and ASUS also. Although from the complaints I have seen from users of the ASUS boards just on this list, I would probably hesitate on those right now. Good Luck on your quest! Patrick -------------------------- On Thursday 29 November 2001 07:31 am, Graham Smith, went on about:

...

Hi,

I need to buy four new machines for the office to be used as workstations, and was after some guidance on the motherboard and CPU. Will probably equip them with 256M of ram and the Matrox G450 Video card and 20G IDE Hard disk.

Can anyone recommend a decent motherboard that works without problems. A few of my friends have had problems with the AMD processors and recommend the P4. I think the main problems is getting a stable board that is specifically designed for the AMD processors.

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

Graham Smith ----------------------------------------

-- ---KMail 1.3.2--- SuSE Linux v7.2 Pro--- Registered Linux User #225206 /tracerb@sprintmail.com/ *Magic Page Products* *Team Amiga* http://home.sprintmail.com/~tracerb

Jesse Marlin

19:29

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

How cool? I have Athlon XP 1800+ on a Gigabyte GA-7VTXE MB and the bios reports it at around 54 degrees celsius. I looked up in the AMD online manual and it claims the max is 90 degrees celcius. I took a lot of precautions when building it, and thought it would be running cooler. One part that worries me is that I can actually touch the heatsink. What kinda of temp are you reading on yours? <snip>

...

Compared to my previous T-Bird 1.2GHz CPU based A7V133 - much faster and much, much cooler.

Ragnar Steingrimsson

20:48

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

On Thu, 29 Nov 2001, Graham Smith wrote:

...

Can anyone recommend a decent motherboard that works without problems. A few of my friends have had problems with the AMD processors and recommend the P4. I think the main problems is getting a stable board that is specifically designed for the AMD processors.

I use Gigabyte's GA-7DX with 1G AMD Athlon (MicronPC Millenia XP) I have not had a single problem. I have Nvidia video gard. This card only supports up to 1.2G (less for the Duron) but Gigabyte has new boards and if my board is an indication, their products are to be recommended. Gigabyte website: http://www.giga-byte.com/ -- Ragnar Steingrimsson | Department of Cognitive Sciences UC-Irvine, SSPA 3151 | Email: ragnar@uci.edu Irvine, CA 92697 | Small Green Men

Lourens Steenkamp

30 Nov 30 Nov

04:42

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:29:17 -0500 Jesse Marlin wrote:

...

How cool? I have Athlon XP 1800+ on a Gigabyte GA-7VTXE MB and the bios reports it at around 54 degrees celsius. I looked up in the AMD online manual and it claims the max is 90 degrees celcius. I took a lot of precautions when building it, and thought it would be running cooler. One part that worries me is that I can actually touch the heatsink. What kinda of temp are you reading on yours?

<snip>

That is comfortable for this CPU. In "another O/S" <grimace> (have to get a driver for my sensor chip), in the same case (AOpen full tower with the recommended Coolmaster heatsink on each CPU and extraction fan for the hdd's) my XP 1600+ peaks at about 51 degrees C, my T-Bird 1.2G was peaking at 62 degrees C. I am trying to get hold of some Arctic Silver II thermal compound, according to tests that I have seen, this alone should decrease the temp by 4 or 5 degress C. High performance cooler units are difficult to get hold of here - Third World country stuff, so I have to try other things?! Have fun with your new system. *** If you find a solution and become attached to it, the solution may become your next problem. *** Powered by SuSE Linux 7.2 Professional and AMD Athlon XP1600+ Registered Linux User Lourens Steenkamp Republic of South Africa

Linux Fan

1 Dec 1 Dec

04:33

New subject: [SLE] Duron 1200 MHz out performs P4 at 1400 MHz.

Hi, With regard to the arctic silver II, the temperature decrease is half true, half myth! It might decrease the temperature of your cpu only if you're using a very poor quality thermal paste. In my case, I was using a silicon based thermal paste that came with my Vantec 6030 heat-sink-fan, and I saw only 1 celcius decrease in temperature when I switched to using arctic silver II. If you are in need of new thermal paste, then maybe you should buy it. Otherwise, there is no point. It cant perform miracles, so you can say that I was dissapointed. Give this url a read and decide for yourself: http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/cooling/compound/ Sinan --- Lourens Steenkamp wrote:

...

On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:29:17 -0500 Jesse Marlin wrote:

...
How cool? I have Athlon XP 1800+ on a Gigabyte

GA-7VTXE MB and the

...
bios reports it at around 54 degrees celsius. I looked up in the AMD online manual and it claims the max is 90 degrees celcius. I took a lot of precautions when building it, and thought it would be running cooler. One part that worries me is that I can actually touch the heatsink. What kinda of temp are you reading on yours?

<snip>

That is comfortable for this CPU. In "another O/S" <grimace> (have to get a driver for my sensor chip), in the same case (AOpen full tower with the recommended Coolmaster heatsink on each CPU and extraction fan for the hdd's) my XP 1600+ peaks at about 51 degrees C, my T-Bird 1.2G was peaking at 62 degrees C. I am trying to get hold of some Arctic Silver II thermal compound, according to tests that I have seen, this alone should decrease the temp by 4 or 5 degress C. High performance cooler units are difficult to get hold of here - Third World country stuff, so I have to try other things?!

Have fun with your new system.

***

If you find a solution and become attached to it, the solution may become your next problem.

***

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Lourens Steenkamp Republic of South Africa

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10 participants

participants (10)

Graham Smith
Jesse Marlin
Jon Biddell
Jon Pennington
lester＠lsces.co.uk
Linux Fan
Lourens Steenkamp
Patrick
Ragnar Steingrimsson
Tim Prince