Hi, I am currently running SuSE 9.1 Professional and I find that the package installation mechanisms are quite a mess. I see that there are at least three different set of utilities available - each with its own set of command line and graphical interface. 1. Yast2 : This is what comes with SuSE 9.1 professional. Command line yast and graphical yast2. 2. apt-get: This is apt4rpm tool. It has synaptics, kynpatics etc. graphical interfaces. Some popular packagers (e.g. guru, packman etc.) use this. 3. Red Carpet: This is Ximian's red carpet, which is now bought by Novell. It has command-line rug and the redcarpet. I have to work with all these because some of the things are available in only one of them. Yast2 is of course needed as it is the distribution's default packager - all updates come through it (I think). I keep apt-get for some of the packages by guru, packman etc. I use redcarpet because of ximian-connector and evolution's develoment versions for suse. I think this is a mess. There should be just one way to install packages. Now that Ximian and Suse both are part of Novell, is there a way to come up with a unified package installer for future versions of Suse? Osho
Op zaterdag 25 september 2004 22:07, schreef Osho GG:
I have to work with all these because some of the things are available in only one of them. Yast2 is of course needed as it is the distribution's default packager - all updates come through it (I think).
And apt via the "update" component.
I keep apt-get for some of the packages by guru, packman etc. I use redcarpet because of ximian-connector and evolution's develoment versions for suse.
And apt via the ximian component, btw "mono" is delivered via this apt component too.
I think this is a mess. There should be just one way to install packages. Now that Ximian and Suse both are part of Novell, is there a way to come up with a unified package installer for future versions of Suse?
Yep, use apt ;) -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
Richard Bos wrote:
Op zaterdag 25 september 2004 22:07, schreef Osho GG:
I think this is a mess. There should be just one way to install packages. Now that Ximian and Suse both are part of Novell, is there a way to come up with a unified package installer for future versions of Suse?
Yep, use apt ;)
That's an apt reply. ;-)
* James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> [09-25-04 15:45]:
That's an apt reply. ;-)
and aptly put :^] -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/photos
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 22:23:00 +0200, Richard Bos <radoeka@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Op zaterdag 25 september 2004 22:07, schreef Osho GG:
I have to work with all these because some of the things are available in only one of them. Yast2 is of course needed as it is the distribution's default packager - all updates come through it (I think).
And apt via the "update" component.
I would feel really uncomfortable doing it. Are SuSE's security updates etc. are guaranteed to hit the update component? And, why is it that Suse's yast2 does not have direct access to "red carpet channels"?? I would ideally prefer just to use the package management that comes with the distro. Suse should make it easy enough so that all packagers can use it. Osho
On Sunday 26 September 2004 00:54, Osho GG wrote:
Suse should make it easy enough so that all packagers can use it.
They do not make it hard. Apt already can use SuSE's packages (!), and so IMO it is up to the /makers/ of the tools to /enable/ the use of the resources /available/. If red carpet cannot install rpms from SuSE, I think you should complain to the makers of red carpet. Let me stress that I am unfamiliar with red carpet. Cheers, Leen
Op zondag 26 september 2004 00:54, schreef Osho GG:
I would feel really uncomfortable doing it. Are SuSE's security updates etc. are guaranteed to hit the update component?
No, of course not. It is all on voluntary basis. But since the apt repository started not only 2 days has been missed (and that was due to maintenance). For security rpms I would advice to use the apt component security, that way to have your security fixes automatically applied using a cronjob. I'm doing that for a loonnngggg time and it works flawlesly.
And, why is it that Suse's yast2 does not have direct access to "red carpet channels"??
Because someone needs to do make the repository: you? It is open source, no one stops from doing it.
I would ideally prefer just to use the package management that comes with the distro. Suse should make it easy enough so that all packagers can use it.
Besides that suse supports only what they can support, and that is what suse officially releases. Anything else is not supported and will of course not be encourage by suse via yast (kde being the exception). -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
Richard Bos wrote:
Op zondag 26 september 2004 00:54, schreef Osho GG:
I would ideally prefer just to use the package management that comes with the distro. Suse should make it easy enough so that all packagers can use it.
Besides that suse supports only what they can support, and that is what suse officially releases. Anything else is not supported and will of course not be encourage by suse via yast (kde being the exception).
Well i guess it's time to try apt, because twice now i have tried to use YaST2/YOU to update my Suse 9.1 Pro (clean install on AMD 2.4g, Asus A7S333, 512 M ram, kern 2.6.4-52-deflt), and i end up with a hair-tearing mess where none of the YaST modules work,(they start & die in 20 secs), my mouse is jerky, etc. I tried two auto repairs (boot fm DVD) which seemed to do the right things but a mess remains! Prior i did successful NVidia & Modem updates ok. It goes bad with Suse YOU. Am back to sending this on Win98 and really sore at Suse's update farce. Guess it means a total re-install or just walk away from Suse Linux. Error logs don't tell me what went wrong, as i did a manual, selective YOU and it seemed to update some 20 programs (KDE, Yast, security) ok. If some kind soul has ideas to try, please advise. Am going to bed as this has really got to me (Suse 8.0 was better, stable & predictable). Thanks for any help, BrianB.
Brian Berrigan wrote:
Well i guess it's time to try apt,
Its not an either /or situation. You can happily use both.
because twice now i have tried to use YaST2/YOU to update my Suse 9.1 Pro (clean install on AMD 2.4g, Asus A7S333, 512 M ram, kern 2.6.4-52-deflt), and i end up with a hair-tearing mess where none of the YaST modules work,(they start & die in 20 secs), my mouse is jerky, etc. I tried two auto repairs (boot fm DVD) which seemed to do the right things but a mess remains! Prior i did successful NVidia & Modem updates ok. It goes bad with Suse YOU.
Have you tried the ncurses version (Yast via a command line)? Does it also not start?
Am back to sending this on Win98 and really sore at Suse's update farce.
Sorry to inform you, but there is an awful lot of us that do not have your problem with using SuSE's update tools. IOW, it is not SuSE's fault. You need to get out of the mindset of finding who to blame (nothing else is possible in Windows I know.) and instead finding what needs fixed. You have the freedom and power with Linux to even fix a programming error if need be. -- Joe Morris New Tribes Mission Email Address: Joe_Morris@ntm.org Registered Linux user 231871
On Saturday 02 October 2004 09:15, Joe Morris (NTM) wrote:
Brian Berrigan wrote:
Well i guess it's time to try apt, Its not an either /or situation. You can happily use both. because twice now i have tried to use YaST2/YOU to update my Suse 9.1 Pro (clean install on AMD 2.4g, Asus Have you tried the ncurses version (Yast via a command line)? Does it also not start? Sorry to inform you, but there is an awful lot of us that do not have your problem with using SuSE's update tools. IOW, it is not SuSE's fault. You need to get out of the mindset of finding who to blame Joe Morris
Well i'm no expert nor a programmer but i started with a Vic20, CBM128, OS/2, Win, SuSE 8, SuSE 9.1 etc, so i have some experience, and i expected at least a goof-proof update from Suse, not some geek-only morass. I know lots about M/S stupidity and Linux' configurability & strengths. Far as i can tell i followed all instructions but went from a good, older 9.1 to a nightmare system with too many problems to even name. So i asked Why? I have in the past respected your helpful advice to others, but i DON'T need some GD lecture on what i'm doing wrong or that i'm trying to blame others for my own stupidity. I said what i did try, all as per SuSE advice, so i was frustrated as to why it all went so wrong. You call your attitude helpful? I'm outta here. Thanks anyway, BrianB.
* bberrign <bberrign@renc.igs.net> [10-03-04 21:19]:
I'm outta here. Thanks anyway, BrianB.
You'll be missed, but your attitude is welcome to go, where-ever, as long as it does go. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/photos
On Saturday 25 Sep 2004 21:07, Osho GG wrote:
Hi,
I am currently running SuSE 9.1 Professional and I find that the package installation mechanisms are quite a mess. I see that there are at least three different set of utilities available - each with its own set of command line and graphical interface.
1. Yast2 : This is what comes with SuSE 9.1 professional. Command line yast and graphical yast2. 2. apt-get: This is apt4rpm tool. It has synaptics, kynpatics etc. graphical interfaces. Some popular packagers (e.g. guru, packman etc.) use this. 3. Red Carpet: This is Ximian's red carpet, which is now bought by Novell. It has command-line rug and the redcarpet.
I have to work with all these because some of the things are available in only one of them. Yast2 is of course needed as it is the distribution's default packager - all updates come through it (I think). I keep apt-get for some of the packages by guru, packman etc. I use redcarpet because of ximian-connector and evolution's develoment versions for suse.
I think this is a mess. There should be just one way to install packages. Now that Ximian and Suse both are part of Novell, is there a way to come up with a unified package installer for future versions of Suse?
Osho
And just what is wrong with the command line or is that too scary for people these days . Apt is a pain in the rear end always has been and always will be Red carpet /rug Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm yes nuff said . come to think of it good old .tar.gz works quite nicley as well .. -- Linux user No: 256242 Machine No: 139931 G6NJR Pete also MSA registered "Quinton 11" A Linux Only area Happy bug hunting M$ clan, The time is here to FORGET that M$ Corp ever existed the world does not NEED M$ Corp the world has NO USE for M$ Corp it is time to END M$ Corp , Play time is over folks time for action approaches at an alarming pace the death knell for M$ Copr has been sounded . Termination time is around the corner ..
Op zaterdag 25 september 2004 23:33, schreef peter Nikolic:
Apt is a pain in the rear end always has been and always will be Red carpet /rug Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm yes nuff said .
Why is that, red carpet is using apt's (or yum's) metadata files... -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
On Saturday 25 September 2004 22:07, Osho GG wrote:
Hi,
I am currently running SuSE 9.1 Professional and I find that the package installation mechanisms are quite a mess. I see that there are at least three different set of utilities available - each with its own set of command line and graphical interface.
1. Yast2 : This is what comes with SuSE 9.1 professional. Command line yast and graphical yast2. 2. apt-get: This is apt4rpm tool. It has synaptics, kynpatics etc. graphical interfaces. Some popular packagers (e.g. guru, packman etc.) use this. 3. Red Carpet: This is Ximian's red carpet, which is now bought by Novell. It has command-line rug and the redcarpet.
I have to work with all these because some of the things are available in only one of them. Yast2 is of course needed as it is the distribution's default packager - all updates come through it (I think). I keep apt-get for some of the packages by guru, packman etc.
I cannot speak about red carpet, as I do not know it. But apt and YaST can live /happily/ next to each other. They are both tools to install and manage rpm packages, and YaST and apt do not bite each other.
I use redcarpet because of ximian-connector and evolution's develoment versions for suse.
But perhaps the rpm packages from apt and ximian do bite each other. I think this has nothing to do with the tools (apt, YaST, red carpet), but /perhaps/ with improper packaging. Cheers, Leen
Op zondag 26 september 2004 00:46, schreef Leendert Meyer:
But perhaps the rpm packages from apt and ximian do bite each other. I
you can't say from apt... as e.g. ximian comes from apt too. The packages come from suse, ximian, usr-local-bin, packman, etc. Apt is nothing else, but packages organized in a certain structure...
think this has nothing to do with the tools (apt, YaST, red carpet), but /perhaps/ with improper packaging.
Indeed. -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
On Sunday 26 September 2004 09:42, Richard Bos wrote:
Op zondag 26 september 2004 00:46, schreef Leendert Meyer:
But perhaps the rpm packages from apt and ximian do bite each other. I
I should have written: ... the rpm packages in the apt repositories and ... ;)
you can't say from apt... as e.g. ximian comes from apt too.
Ah, so the red carpet ximian repository and the apt ximian repository have the same packages?
The packages come from suse, ximian, usr-local-bin, packman, etc. Apt is nothing else, but packages organized in a certain structure...
and a few tools to manage them (packages and structure).
think this has nothing to do with the tools (apt, YaST, red carpet), but /perhaps/ with improper packaging.
Indeed.
Cheers, Leen
On Sat, 2004-09-25 at 13:07, Osho GG wrote:
Hi,
I am currently running SuSE 9.1 Professional and I find that the package installation mechanisms are quite a mess. I see that there are at least three different set of utilities available - each with its own set of command line and graphical interface.
1. Yast2 : This is what comes with SuSE 9.1 professional. Command line yast and graphical yast2. 2. apt-get: This is apt4rpm tool. It has synaptics, kynpatics etc. graphical interfaces. Some popular packagers (e.g. guru, packman etc.) use this. 3. Red Carpet: This is Ximian's red carpet, which is now bought by Novell. It has command-line rug and the redcarpet.
4. kpackage which has yet to fail me. you run it from konsole as user and then specify the root pw within kpackage when you wish to test an install. -- _______ _______ _______ __ / ____\ \ / / ____|_ _\ \ / / | | \ \ /\ / / (___ | | \ \ / / | | \ \/ \/ / \___ \ | | \ \/ / | |____ \ /\ / ____) |_| |_ \ / \_____| \/ \/ |_____/|_____| \/
participants (10)
-
bberrign -
Brian Berrigan
-
Carl William Spitzer IV -
James Knott -
Joe Morris (NTM) -
Leendert Meyer -
Osho GG -
Patrick Shanahan -
peter Nikolic -
Richard Bos