[opensuse] Thunderbird 38.1.0 don’t show Outlook email if "HTML original" is selected
Hello, Suddenly (may be after some of the latest Mozilla updates) Thunderbird started to have a problem when opening email sent from Outlook clients. The email body is not complete I.E. just the sender signature and signature's pictures are being displayed, the message text itself part is not. To be able to see the email body text I have to select View->HTML as simple. I believe Thunderbird applies a strict RFC rule and for this reason is discarding/hiding the text(?) I verify with different clients or even web email that Outlook email are displayed correctly then it is a specific Thunderbird issue. I'm attaching the excerpts of two HTML email sources in order to see the differences among them. The first is the Outlook source which is not fully displayed in Thunderbird with View->HTML as Original, while the second is another HTML source which went correctly displayed. # 1 HTML not fully displayed: Accept-Language: pt-BR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [HIDDEN] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_009_ccd995d399dc4543b7cdf858ca9a44b6SNEPEXM02Phidden_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Return-Path: HIDDEN --_009_ccd995d399dc4543b7cdf858ca9a44b6SNEPEXM02Phidden_ Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_008_ccd995d399dc4543b7cdf858ca9a44b6SNEPEXM02Phidden_"; type="multipart/alternative" --_008_ccd995d399dc4543b7cdf858ca9a44b6SNEPEXM02Phidden_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_ccd995d399dc4543b7cdf858ca9a44b6SNEPEXM02Phidden_" --_000_ccd995d399dc4543b7cdf858ca9a44b6SNEPEXM02Phidden_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 # 2 HTML fully displayed Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=001a1134de483afeb504fe42babe --001a1134de483afeb504fe42babe Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134de483afeb304fe42babd --001a1134de483afeb304fe42babd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If someone have faced the same issue and being able to resolve, please share with me the solution. Many thanks! Regards, -- Marco Calistri opensuse 13.2 (Harlequin) 64 bit - Kernel 4.1.3-4-desktop Gnome 3.14.2 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Marco Calistri wrote:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: ^^^^^^ That's your problem. (from https://www.buffalo.edu/ubit/service-guides/email/ubmail-powered-by-exchange...
The MS support sites that describe the format were closed off to me. The following stles were inserted at the top of the page -- to force all content NOT to display(none). (example page: @ https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/241538 ) had same result on other MS pages). <style type="text/css"> .ng-hide .error-content { display: none; text-align: center; font-family: 'Segoe UI'; padding-bottom: 12px; } .error-content h2 { margin-top: 8px; margin-bottom: 24px; color: black; } </style> Outlook can use a method called Transport Neutral Encapsulation Format (TNEF) to package information for sending messages. The use of TNEF is affected by settings in Outlook that are referred to as Rich Text Format (RTF). A TNEF-encoded message contains a plain text version of the message and a bundled binary attachment that contains the other parts of the original message. This attachment is named Winmail.dat, and includes: The formatted text version of the message (including fonts or colors) OLE objects (embedded pictures and embedded Office documents) Special Outlook features (custom forms and meeting requests) Any file attachments that were attached to the original message Unfortunately, the Winmail.dat bundled attachment is not readable by many other email clients or by Outllook for Macintosh and it may even appear to the recipient as though the expected attachment is missing. ------------ Only fix is from those using outlook: How to Avoid Sending Winmail.dat Attachments Setting Global Properties Set the Global Properties to have Outlook by default send your email in Hypertext Markup Language (HTML): Outlook 2007: Select Tools > Options > Email Format > Internet Options. Select Convert to HTML format. Outlook 2010 and 2013: Select File > Options > Mail and then scroll to the bottom of the dialog. Select Convert to HTML format. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-01 04:24, Linda Walsh wrote:
The MS support sites that describe the format were closed off to me. The following stles were inserted at the top of the page -- to force all content NOT to display(none). (example page: @ https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/241538 ) had same result on other MS pages).
I have no problem with that page in Firefox. Cookies *have* to be allowed. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Il 31/07/2015 23:24, Linda Walsh ha scritto:
Marco Calistri wrote:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: ^^^^^^ That's your problem. (from https://www.buffalo.edu/ubit/service-guides/email/ubmail-powered-by-exchange...
The MS support sites that describe the format were closed off to me. The following stles were inserted at the top of the page -- to force all content NOT to display(none). (example page: @ https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/241538 ) had same result on other MS pages).
<style type="text/css"> .ng-hide .error-content { display: none; text-align: center; font-family: 'Segoe UI'; padding-bottom: 12px; } .error-content h2 { margin-top: 8px; margin-bottom: 24px; color: black; } </style>
Outlook can use a method called Transport Neutral Encapsulation Format (TNEF) to package information for sending messages. The use of TNEF is affected by settings in Outlook that are referred to as Rich Text Format (RTF).
A TNEF-encoded message contains a plain text version of the message and a bundled binary attachment that contains the other parts of the original message. This attachment is named Winmail.dat, and includes:
The formatted text version of the message (including fonts or colors) OLE objects (embedded pictures and embedded Office documents) Special Outlook features (custom forms and meeting requests) Any file attachments that were attached to the original message
Unfortunately, the Winmail.dat bundled attachment is not readable by many other email clients or by Outllook for Macintosh and it may even appear to the recipient as though the expected attachment is missing.
------------ Only fix is from those using outlook:
How to Avoid Sending Winmail.dat Attachments Setting Global Properties
Set the Global Properties to have Outlook by default send your email in Hypertext Markup Language (HTML):
Outlook 2007: Select Tools > Options > Email Format > Internet Options. Select Convert to HTML format. Outlook 2010 and 2013: Select File > Options > Mail and then scroll to the bottom of the dialog. Select Convert to HTML format.
Hi Linda, Many thanks, very interesting explication! The problem is that such TNEF encoded email are coming from a customer then I cannot change its settings, at least I can forward him this technical details to see if he can/wish to change his current configuration. Best regards! -- Marco Calistri opensuse 13.2 (Harlequin) 64 bit - Kernel 4.1.3-4-desktop Gnome 3.14.2 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/31/2015 10:24 PM, Linda Walsh wrote:
Set the Global Properties to have Outlook by default send your email in Hypertext Markup Language (HTML):
Oh <expletive-deleted> golly gosh! Microsoft manages to produce the most <expletive-deleted> poor quality HTML in the known universe. I've tried sending it through html-tidy a few iterations and while that makes it more readable, it merely shows it up for the inefficient piece of <expletive-deleted> encoding of text that it is. It beleaguers the imagination what kind of programming practices manage to produce <expletive-deleted> results like this. Mind you, that being said, I've always wondered at the kind of organization that encourages the use of 'enhanced' email for what seems no good reasons, resulting in disk-bloat and the associated complexity of backups and archival searching. Maybe I'm a dinosaur of the KISS school. maybe the idea is to make legal searches as part of court ordered "disclosures" more difficult. But in that case why not simply delete the messages, or better still, don't send them in the first place. Walk down the corridor and say what has to be said face to face with the door shut and no witnesses present. Didn't these people learn ANYTHING from Enron? And no I'm no fat and purple! -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-01 16:18, Anton Aylward wrote:
Mind you, that being said, I've always wondered at the kind of organization that encourages the use of 'enhanced' email for what seems no good reasons, resulting in disk-bloat and the associated complexity of backups and archival searching.
Oh, I have worked in a large international business organization that used such a thing. Exchange, actually. Worked nicely, intranet. Beautiful emails. They mailed a lot of documents with it, with tons of replies that resent the documents dozens of times (even though we had shared directories and could send links to files in them). And the folder had a 2 gig limit, which believe me, was easy to reach. Useless to convince them to use something else, the thing actually worked with the right set of features. Ah, and these people actually used and sold Unix, and some Linux. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 28/07/2015 20:26, Marco Calistri wrote:
Hello,
Suddenly (may be after some of the latest Mozilla updates) Thunderbird started to have a problem when opening email sent from Outlook clients.
The email body is not complete I.E. just the sender signature and signature's pictures are being displayed, the message text itself part is not.
To be able to see the email body text I have to select View->HTML as simple.
I believe Thunderbird applies a strict RFC rule and for this reason is discarding/hiding the text(?)
I verify with different clients or even web email that Outlook email are displayed correctly then it is a specific Thunderbird issue.
I'm attaching the excerpts of two HTML email sources in order to see the differences among them. The first is the Outlook source which is not fully displayed in Thunderbird with View->HTML as Original, while the second is another HTML source which went correctly displayed.
# 1 HTML not fully displayed:
Accept-Language: pt-BR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [HIDDEN] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_009_ccd995d399dc4543b7cdf858ca9a44b6SNEPEXM02Phidden_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Return-Path: HIDDEN
--_009_ccd995d399dc4543b7cdf858ca9a44b6SNEPEXM02Phidden_ Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_008_ccd995d399dc4543b7cdf858ca9a44b6SNEPEXM02Phidden_"; type="multipart/alternative"
--_008_ccd995d399dc4543b7cdf858ca9a44b6SNEPEXM02Phidden_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_ccd995d399dc4543b7cdf858ca9a44b6SNEPEXM02Phidden_"
--_000_ccd995d399dc4543b7cdf858ca9a44b6SNEPEXM02Phidden_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
# 2 HTML fully displayed
Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=001a1134de483afeb504fe42babe
--001a1134de483afeb504fe42babe Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134de483afeb304fe42babd
--001a1134de483afeb304fe42babd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If someone have faced the same issue and being able to resolve, please share with me the solution.
Many thanks!
Regards,
Hello again, I discovered a weird thing: the behavior above of missing display of HTML email is affecting just Thunderbird Linux version and not Windows version! In Thunderbird for Windows if I keep the "HTML Original" option selected the email is displayed correctly! I tried to restart Thunderbird for Linux with all plug-in disabled and this has not sorted any effect. (installed version: MozillaThunderbird-38.1.0-22.1.x86_64). Then it is a problem inside Thunderbird for Linux I suppose! Regards, -- Marco Calistri opensuse 13.2 (Harlequin) 64 bit - Kernel 4.1.4-1-desktop Gnome 3.14.2 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-11 16:21, Marco Calistri wrote:
I discovered a weird thing: the behavior above of missing display of HTML email is affecting just Thunderbird Linux version and not Windows version!
In Windows, Thunderbird has access, in theory at least, to the libraries used by Outlook. Years ago its ancestor, Netscape, did that. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXKFBIACgkQja8UbcUWM1wUXwD/REdkjdqt4DEGXk2u/yeLYNOL Qej4cTUJ8RCJW4N7xqcA+waeEk59OndGdEO84akjzJ07WS617PghqY7eDhS3bsv1 =gQsY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 11/08/2015 12:26, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
On 2015-08-11 16:21, Marco Calistri wrote:
I discovered a weird thing: the behavior above of missing display of HTML email is affecting just Thunderbird Linux version and not Windows version!
In Windows, Thunderbird has access, in theory at least, to the libraries used by Outlook. Years ago its ancestor, Netscape, did that.
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
iF4EAREIAAYFAlXKFBIACgkQja8UbcUWM1wUXwD/REdkjdqt4DEGXk2u/yeLYNOL Qej4cTUJ8RCJW4N7xqcA+waeEk59OndGdEO84akjzJ07WS617PghqY7eDhS3bsv1 =gQsY -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Hi Carlos, It could be a possible explanation but to me it is looking as a missing functionality in Thunderbird for Linux. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/11/2015 06:26 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > On 2015-08-11 16:21, Marco Calistri wrote: >> I discovered a weird thing: the behavior above of missing display >> of HTML email is affecting just Thunderbird Linux version and not >> Windows version! > In Windows, Thunderbird has access, in theory at least, to the > libraries used by Outlook. Years ago its ancestor, Netscape, did that. > > - -- > Cheers - i notice that "Find --> Search Messages" can discover such html e-mail : tho' it is not visible otherwise ........... regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 11/08/2015 15:19, ellanios82 ha scritto: > On 08/11/2015 06:26 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 >> >> On 2015-08-11 16:21, Marco Calistri wrote: >>> I discovered a weird thing: the behavior above of missing >>> display of HTML email is affecting just Thunderbird Linux version >>> and not Windows version! >> In Windows, Thunderbird has access, in theory at least, to the >> libraries used by Outlook. Years ago its ancestor, Netscape, did >> that. >> >> - -- Cheers > - i notice that "Find --> Search Messages" can discover such html > e-mail : tho' it is not visible otherwise ........... > > regards > Hello, I'm getting crazy because after some tests I discovered that the problem I found in Thunderbird openSUSE about OutLook HTML display failure, if I set View->Body_Message_As->HTML-Original, is not related to openSUSE itself but instead to users in fact the root user is able to display the messages perfectly. Then I suppose this could have something to do with locale or may be some file permission. I tried to create a brand new user in my openSUSE and configured my Thunderbird account and the problem is still there! Is there anybody that could have the explication to this strange behavior? It could be related to have installed XFCE along GNOME as DE? Any help is greatly appreciated. Many Thanks. -- Marco Calistri -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2015-08-20 at 10:44 -0300, Marco Calistri wrote: > > > - -- Cheers > > - i notice that "Find --> Search Messages" can discover such html > > e-mail : tho' it is not visible otherwise ........... > I'm getting crazy because after some tests I discovered that the > problem > I found in Thunderbird openSUSE about OutLook HTML display failure, > if I > set View->Body_Message_As->HTML-Original, is not related to openSUSE > itself but instead to users in fact the root user is able to display > the messages perfectly. Likely because he [root] has not previous settings? > Then I suppose this could have something to do with locale or may be > some file permission. I don't see how it could be file permissions - a message is a file, all of the message is one file. And you are using IMAP? [and not some antiquated mail-in-the-filesystem scheme?] > I tried to create a brand new user in my openSUSE and configured my > Thunderbird account and the problem is still there! > Is there anybody that could have the explication to this strange > behavior? No idea, not a TB user. > It could be related to have installed XFCE along GNOME as DE? No. TB does its own thing. > Any help is greatly appreciated. -- Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam@whitemice.org> GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 20/08/2015 10:48, Adam Tauno Williams ha scritto: > On Thu, 2015-08-20 at 10:44 -0300, Marco Calistri wrote: >>>> - -- Cheers >>> - i notice that "Find --> Search Messages" can discover such html >>> e-mail : tho' it is not visible otherwise ........... >> I'm getting crazy because after some tests I discovered that the >> problem I found in Thunderbird openSUSE about OutLook HTML display >> failure, if I set View->Body_Message_As->HTML-Original, is not >> related to openSUSE itself but instead to users in fact the root >> user is able to display the messages perfectly. > > Likely because he [root] has not previous settings? > No because the problem happens with fresh users starting from scratch. >> Then I suppose this could have something to do with locale or may >> be some file permission. > > I don't see how it could be file permissions - a message is a file, > all of the message is one file. And you are using IMAP? [and not > some antiquated mail-in-the-filesystem scheme?] > Yes I use IMAP! >> I tried to create a brand new user in my openSUSE and configured >> my Thunderbird account and the problem is still there! Is there >> anybody that could have the explication to this strange behavior? > > No idea, not a TB user. > I also made a major change: I upgraded 13.2 64 bits to Tumbleweed which has of course refreshed all the libs, bin and symbolic links but the problem continues! >> It could be related to have installed XFCE along GNOME as DE? > > No. TB does its own thing. > It is very mysterious behavior! >> Any help is greatly appreciated. > Thanks Adam anyhow! -- Marco Calistri -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/20/2015 09:44 AM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Is there anybody that could have the explication to this strange behavior?
I *sigh* see a not unrelated phenomena. When I do I use "ctl-u" to see "under the hood" at the raw message. many mailers are not very good and send non-conformant messages Others are nov ery good and don't do things like "text-flowed" properly, causing parts of the message to vanish. The RFCs say that a in a multi-part message there should be an 'alternative' pure text component. Some don't honour that. Heck, you can automate batch mail (aka large scale unsolicited or perhaps group mailing list blasts) with Linux tools and omit any part you want! Or not. look what you can do with 'metasend', for example. I have a couple of not-technical correspondents who use what I consider to be broken mailers that send html-mail, and piss poor html mail at that, with no text part. For the most part I view mail text only, so yes i quite often see mail that has no text art, that is all a graphic image, that is all html mail. I have to use View->Body_Message_As->HTML-Original, once I've verified using ctrl-u. but its not always that simple. Sometimes the ctrl-u shows Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 which is unreadble by mere humans. Perhaps you have a base64 decoder to hand to check this out of band. The 'strange behaviour' is non-conformance or playing loose-and-free with poorly written parts of the specification. RFC 3676 obsoleted 2646 and clarified the issue of plain text vs enhanced, but not everyone, least of all Gmail, follows this. <quote> Interoperability problems have been observed with erroneous labelling of paragraph text as Text/Plain, and with various forms of "embarrassing line wrap". (See Section 3.) Attempts to deploy new media types, such as Text/Enriched [Rich] and Text/HTML [HTML] have suffered from a lack of backwards compatibility and an often hostile user reaction at the receiving end. </quote> Thunderbird is a very capable MUI, but it has a host of configuration options and there is a lot of stuff on the Net Of A Billion Lies that refers to out of date versions. The key thing, I would recommend, is to use "ctrl-u" to find out what is there and whether it makes sense for the display mode you are using. But that too is predicated on issues like access control, indexing and more. When I run 'find' on my /home/anton tree I usually get error messages about unreadable files, which puzzles me. They are unreadable by root as well, so i wonder if I have corrupt directories. Damn BtrFS for introducing uncertainty. And perhaps the Windows/linux disparity is a configuration option - check the "about:" -- which is extensive. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2015-08-20 at 10:24 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
Is there anybody that could have the explication to this strange behavior? many mailers are not very good and send non-conformant messages Others are nov ery good and don't do things like "text-flowed"
On 08/20/2015 09:44 AM, Marco Calistri wrote: properly, causing parts of the message to vanish. The RFCs say that a in a multi-part message there should be an 'alternative' pure text component.
Nobody cares anymore what the RFCs say [and Google is an offender - but anything they do is 'right' according the their legion of fanboys, so... sigh].
Some don't honour that.
"Some"? The truth is "Many", and trending towards "Most".
The 'strange behaviour' is non-conformance or playing loose-and-free with poorly written parts of the specification.
Any modern MUA should know how to work-around the many most common ways messages can be 'broken'.
RFC 3676 obsoleted 2646 and clarified the issue of plain text vs
I wouldn't hold my breath on compliance.
The key thing, I would recommend, is to use "ctrl-u" to find out what is there and whether it makes sense for the display mode you are using.
+1 Going to the message source to see the structure of a message is always a place to start when looking at wonky-message issues.
When I run 'find' on my /home/anton tree I usually get error messages about unreadable files, which puzzles me. They are unreadable by root as well, so i wonder if I have corrupt directories. Damn BtrFS for introducing uncertainty.
Yes, I would be very concerned about that. Backup NOW! -- Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam@whitemice.org> GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-20 16:24, Anton Aylward wrote:
The RFCs say that a in a multi-part message there should be an 'alternative' pure text component. Some don't honour that.
I can demonstrate in a private email that Thunderbird does not ;-) Ie, that it can send a pure html, no plain text, email. Obviously, it can not be sent to the list. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXV5KQACgkQja8UbcUWM1y9IwEAl9TwfelmVdBwHxAE0eC3m6nH pRxaZ4nAdVJKgv4EkaIA/RDq2qFJRoHjg61b/IVu+bi///sD7jfFs6z0BMiWftLN =B3lS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-20 16:31, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2015-08-20 16:24, Anton Aylward wrote:
The RFCs say that a in a multi-part message there should be an 'alternative' pure text component. Some don't honour that.
I can demonstrate in a private email that Thunderbird does not ;-)
Ie, that it can send a pure html, no plain text, email.
Obviously, it can not be sent to the list.
Done. Look out for it ;-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXV5e4ACgkQja8UbcUWM1x8SgD/aY/A0S1Ec/IOobGioyIXQwgK VW65whKzIl1jj4K3rfcA/2HkggNuh2YP5mJGWG0JkQr5TngU74pU9iaUuBD/DFfq =iru/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/20/2015 10:31 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2015-08-20 16:24, Anton Aylward wrote:
The RFCs say that a in a multi-part message there should be an 'alternative' pure text component. Some don't honour that.
I can demonstrate in a private email that Thunderbird does not ;-)
Ie, that it can send a pure html, no plain text, email.
Yes, so can I, its easy, using, as I pointed out, 'metamail'/'metasend' And yes there are other ways. "Can" and "should" are very different things. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-20 16:46, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 08/20/2015 10:31 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Ie, that it can send a pure html, no plain text, email.
Yes, so can I, its easy, using, as I pointed out, 'metamail'/'metasend'
No, no. Plain Thunderbird, via prominent menu choice. Available since a decade or two. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 08/20/2015 02:09 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2015-08-20 16:46, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 08/20/2015 10:31 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Ie, that it can send a pure html, no plain text, email.
Yes, so can I, its easy, using, as I pointed out, 'metamail'/'metasend'
No, no. Plain Thunderbird, via prominent menu choice. Available since a decade or two.
That too, but my point was that to send mail with no text component doesn't require a mail reader and that tools like metamail/metasend are great for the marketeers/spammers to send dodgy enhanced mail with nastyy links and embedded 'autoexecute' javascript that browsers like Thunderbird _can_ play and web based mail reading almost certaily _will_ play. Large batch (bought from shady perpetrators on the 'net) of addresses, read of a DVD, blasted all out in a few seconds at a cafe or password-less hot spot (such as we now have on out subway system). -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 20/08/2015 11:24, Anton Aylward ha scritto:
On 08/20/2015 09:44 AM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Is there anybody that could have the explication to this strange behavior?
I *sigh* see a not unrelated phenomena. When I do I use "ctl-u" to see "under the hood" at the raw message.
many mailers are not very good and send non-conformant messages Others are nov ery good and don't do things like "text-flowed" properly, causing parts of the message to vanish.
The RFCs say that a in a multi-part message there should be an 'alternative' pure text component. Some don't honour that.
Heck, you can automate batch mail (aka large scale unsolicited or perhaps group mailing list blasts) with Linux tools and omit any part you want! Or not. look what you can do with 'metasend', for example.
I have a couple of not-technical correspondents who use what I consider to be broken mailers that send html-mail, and piss poor html mail at that, with no text part.
For the most part I view mail text only, so yes i quite often see mail that has no text art, that is all a graphic image, that is all html mail. I have to use View->Body_Message_As->HTML-Original, once I've verified using ctrl-u.
but its not always that simple. Sometimes the ctrl-u shows
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
which is unreadble by mere humans. Perhaps you have a base64 decoder to hand to check this out of band.
The 'strange behaviour' is non-conformance or playing loose-and-free with poorly written parts of the specification.
RFC 3676 obsoleted 2646 and clarified the issue of plain text vs enhanced, but not everyone, least of all Gmail, follows this. <quote> Interoperability problems have been observed with erroneous labelling of paragraph text as Text/Plain, and with various forms of "embarrassing line wrap". (See Section 3.)
Attempts to deploy new media types, such as Text/Enriched [Rich] and Text/HTML [HTML] have suffered from a lack of backwards compatibility and an often hostile user reaction at the receiving end. </quote>
Thunderbird is a very capable MUI, but it has a host of configuration options and there is a lot of stuff on the Net Of A Billion Lies that refers to out of date versions.
The key thing, I would recommend, is to use "ctrl-u" to find out what is there and whether it makes sense for the display mode you are using.
But that too is predicated on issues like access control, indexing and more.
When I run 'find' on my /home/anton tree I usually get error messages about unreadable files, which puzzles me. They are unreadable by root as well, so i wonder if I have corrupt directories. Damn BtrFS for introducing uncertainty.
And perhaps the Windows/linux disparity is a configuration option - check the "about:" -- which is extensive.
Anton, I appreciated your technical comments and details about RFC but in this case it is a different problem because the root user is not suffering of the issue as normal users (older and newer) are suffering. I feel it is something related to my filesystem and the /home directory. I have several virtual machines on the "affected box", one of them is running OpenSUSE Tumbleweed and the other is running Ubuntu 14.04 LTS and in both of these Thunderbird displays the same Outlook-HTML email perfectly for normal users! I'm really out of the route I don't know what to check or to do, I also thought to install openSUSE from scratch but I have a lot of things on the /home dir and I would not be not so happy to have to reconfigure everything. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/20/2015 10:38 AM, Marco Calistri wrote:
I feel it is something related to my filesystem and the /home directory.
I have several virtual machines on the "affected box", one of them is running OpenSUSE Tumbleweed and the other is running Ubuntu 14.04 LTS and in both of these Thunderbird displays the same Outlook-HTML email perfectly for normal users!
I'm really out of the route I don't know what to check or to do, I also thought to install openSUSE from scratch but I have a lot of things on the /home dir and I would not be not so happy to have to reconfigure everything.
I'm limited here as my mail is *ALL* IMAP. Thunderbird either access it remotely, as with this list, which is on my hosted account in California, or via dovecot running locally for the files that are locally archived. I don't use Thunderbird to access any local mail files. I imply from what you say that you do. There are a number of implied things in what you say that you might confirm. You seem to be saying that tour /home is not on a separate partition an hence would be wiped if you did a reinstall. is that correct? What kind of file system is this? Why don't you do a treewalk with 'find' to see if there are any files (or directories) in your mail tree (or $HOME for that matter) that are unreadable (or unwritable) ? Once you've established that, its easy to create a new profile for the same user in Thunderbird. You don't have to delete or disable the old one. A fresh one will have no add-ons and until you change them default settings. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 20/08/2015 11:56, Anton Aylward ha scritto:
On 08/20/2015 10:38 AM, Marco Calistri wrote:
I feel it is something related to my filesystem and the /home directory.
I have several virtual machines on the "affected box", one of them is running OpenSUSE Tumbleweed and the other is running Ubuntu 14.04 LTS and in both of these Thunderbird displays the same Outlook-HTML email perfectly for normal users!
I'm really out of the route I don't know what to check or to do, I also thought to install openSUSE from scratch but I have a lot of things on the /home dir and I would not be not so happy to have to reconfigure everything.
I'm limited here as my mail is *ALL* IMAP. Thunderbird either access it remotely, as with this list, which is on my hosted account in California, or via dovecot running locally for the files that are locally archived.
I'm getting the problem from a GMAIL based account ALL IMAP.
I don't use Thunderbird to access any local mail files. I imply from what you say that you do.
Me too: I access the mail files through Gmail server, via network
There are a number of implied things in what you say that you might confirm.
You seem to be saying that tour /home is not on a separate partition an hence would be wiped if you did a reinstall. is that correct?
Nope: my /home is on a separate directory and I always upgraded the openSUSE release after release, preserving users data instead to install from scratch every time.
What kind of file system is this?
It is ext4.
Why don't you do a treewalk with 'find' to see if there are any files (or directories) in your mail tree (or $HOME for that matter) that are unreadable (or unwritable) ?
I tried several things including executing a "chmod -R 755 /home/myself" or as I told, creating a brand fresh new user without any success: all the /home/users presents same issue, HTML email sent from an OutLook client are not displayed when selecting View->Message Body As->HTML-original, I have to select HTML-simple.
Once you've established that, its easy to create a new profile for the same user in Thunderbird. You don't have to delete or disable the old one. A fresh one will have no add-ons and until you change them default settings.
I've done several times also this without success. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-20 16:24, Anton Aylward wrote:
When I run 'find' on my /home/anton tree I usually get error messages about unreadable files, which puzzles me. They are unreadable by root as well, so i wonder if I have corrupt directories. Damn BtrFS for introducing uncertainty.
There are some such (virtual) files, unreadable by design, in home. Feature, not bug. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXV510ACgkQja8UbcUWM1yg4gEAhsWTgKbsjJdN1xCwx5PGSWgz SZgnGZq51mQgflKlRyoA/imfXJ9x+4vb9oyj53/MqkZC+Pa5kbRF/xm5Axf7CS+Z =Tj5R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-20 15:44, Marco Calistri wrote:
Any help is greatly appreciated.
If we had a sample email to test with, we could try and see if we can reproduce the symptoms. It is difficult to make guesses about something we haven't experienced. The different locale would be my bet at this moment. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXV5AwACgkQja8UbcUWM1x7DgD/UHvC4Uveu17OsZ+W1J9a6uBm mw2pUAqj3XtL8zYRd70A/3erMppZ5iLoSYxo2e+lycQ4v+zJXDqs9+bFcZpttxPW =rZda -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 20/08/2015 11:28, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:
On 2015-08-20 15:44, Marco Calistri wrote:
Any help is greatly appreciated.
If we had a sample email to test with, we could try and see if we can reproduce the symptoms.
It is difficult to make guesses about something we haven't experienced.
The different locale would be my bet at this moment.
Carlos, Thanks a lot for your very collaborative spirit but unluckily these are professional email (JOB) and I cannot forward it in order to protect the sender privacy as well as mine. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-20 19:38, Marco Calistri wrote:
Carlos,
Thanks a lot for your very collaborative spirit but unluckily these are professional email (JOB) and I cannot forward it in order to protect the sender privacy as well as mine.
Yes, I know that. Or I guessed so. But unless someone here has outlook and can generate one of those emails so that others can see it, there is little we can do to figure out the problem. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Le 20/08/2015 20:12, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
But unless someone here has outlook and can generate one of those emails so that others can see it, there is little we can do to figure out the problem.
could a mail sent with some virtualbox widows di the job? what would it need to reproduce he problem (I didn't follow all the thread) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-20 20:14, jdd wrote:
Le 20/08/2015 20:12, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
But unless someone here has outlook and can generate one of those emails so that others can see it, there is little we can do to figure out the problem.
could a mail sent with some virtualbox widows di the job?
Mmmm. Yes. If you have a local mail server, you can create a fake, local account, no need for a real one. Actually, I have a laptop with Windows, and I assume it has outlook installed, but I have never used it.
what would it need to reproduce he problem (I didn't follow all the thread)
I don't know. Probably a rich text email, with no plain part. But maybe in certain locale. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Il 20/08/2015 15:17, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:
On 2015-08-20 20:14, jdd wrote:
Le 20/08/2015 20:12, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
But unless someone here has outlook and can generate one of those emails so that others can see it, there is little we can do to figure out the problem.
could a mail sent with some virtualbox widows di the job?
Mmmm. Yes. If you have a local mail server, you can create a fake, local account, no need for a real one.
Actually, I have a laptop with Windows, and I assume it has outlook installed, but I have never used it.
what would it need to reproduce he problem (I didn't follow all the thread)
I don't know. Probably a rich text email, with no plain part. But maybe in certain locale.
Yes, the certain locale should be Pt-Br (Brazilian). Tks, -- Marco Calistri -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-20 20:24, Marco Calistri wrote:
Il 20/08/2015 15:17, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:
Yes, the certain locale should be Pt-Br (Brazilian).
Not only that, but in utf? unicode? ascii-7? There are many things... -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Il 20/08/2015 15:53, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:
On 2015-08-20 20:24, Marco Calistri wrote:
Il 20/08/2015 15:17, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:
Yes, the certain locale should be Pt-Br (Brazilian).
Not only that, but in utf? unicode? ascii-7? There are many things...
I mean that email are sent from a Brazilian locale. My notebook is set in Italian-UTF8 locale Here some email headers of the failing mail (some fields hidden/faked to preserve privacy) ================== In-Reply-To: <55D60A9C.2070307@XXX.com> Accept-Language: pt-BR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [100.021.125.183] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_014_51637ee5be4d4940880f657192ff5434SNEPEXM02Pinternalfake_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Return-Path: juliuscesar@paradisecity.com.br --_014_51637ee5be4d4940880f657192ff5434SNEPEXM02Pinternalfake_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_51637ee5be4d4940880f657192ff5434SNEPEXM02Pinternalfake_" --_000_51637ee5be4d4940880f657192ff5434SNEPEXM02Pinternalfake_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 ================== But the question is: why root user displays these email in Thunderbird flawlessly by selecting View Message_Body_As->HTML-Original and normal users (old or new) see an empty text message with just the sender signature? Cheers, -- Marco Calistri -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-20 21:15, Marco Calistri wrote:
Here some email headers of the failing mail
I don't notice anything remarkable...
But the question is: why root user displays these email in Thunderbird flawlessly by selecting View Message_Body_As->HTML-Original and normal users (old or new) see an empty text message with just the sender signature?
I don't know. Baffling. Did you try seamonkey? It is the same base as firefox/thunderbird, but maybe it behaves differently. Another thing to try, if you didn't, is to temporarily disable addons, by starting thunderbird in safemode. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Il 20/08/2015 16:42, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:
On 2015-08-20 21:15, Marco Calistri wrote:
Here some email headers of the failing mail
I don't notice anything remarkable...
But the question is: why root user displays these email in Thunderbird flawlessly by selecting View Message_Body_As->HTML-Original and normal users (old or new) see an empty text message with just the sender signature?
I don't know. Baffling.
Did you try seamonkey? It is the same base as firefox/thunderbird, but maybe it behaves differently.
Another thing to try, if you didn't, is to temporarily disable addons, by starting thunderbird in safemode.
Oh yes I tried that thing of disbling plugins several times as well as downloading the tar.bz2 Thunderbird package from the Thunderbird homesite and by starting the app from its folder and nothing of this helped! Cheers -- Marco Calistri -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/20/2015 01:38 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Thanks a lot for your very collaborative spirit but unluckily these are professional email (JOB) and I cannot forward it in order to protect the sender privacy as well as mine.
Can you ask parties concerned to send a 'dummy example' that contains no business critical content just as a test pince? Before putting it up on whatever dropbox-thing you can use a text editor to xxxxx out the business name/domain in the header. that shouldn't affect the phenomena -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 21/08/2015 04:05, Anton Aylward ha scritto:
On 08/20/2015 01:38 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Thanks a lot for your very collaborative spirit but unluckily these are professional email (JOB) and I cannot forward it in order to protect the sender privacy as well as mine.
Can you ask parties concerned to send a 'dummy example' that contains no business critical content just as a test pince?
Before putting it up on whatever dropbox-thing you can use a text editor to xxxxx out the business name/domain in the header. that shouldn't affect the phenomena
That's a possibility Anton. I could export the "cleaned email" in some way and send it to some of you (to personal email address) do you think it being possible? Cheers, -- Marco Calistri opensuse 13.2 (Harlequin) 64 bit - Kernel 4.1.5-2-desktop Gnome 3.16.2 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/21/2015 09:44 AM, Marco Calistri wrote:
I could export the "cleaned email" in some way and send it to some of you (to personal email address) do you think it being possible?
No. Please put one copy in some dropbox -- there are many and I'm sure people can suggest one that's convenient for us all -- rather than blasting many copies via email. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 21/08/2015 11:09, Anton Aylward ha scritto:
On 08/21/2015 09:44 AM, Marco Calistri wrote:
I could export the "cleaned email" in some way and send it to some of you (to personal email address) do you think it being possible?
No. Please put one copy in some dropbox -- there are many and I'm sure people can suggest one that's convenient for us all -- rather than blasting many copies via email.
I'm using googledrive. I could pass here the eml file URL. Thanks -- Marco Calistri opensuse 13.2 (Harlequin) 64 bit - Kernel 4.1.5-2-desktop Gnome 3.16.2 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 21/08/2015 11:28, Marco Calistri ha scritto:
Il 21/08/2015 11:09, Anton Aylward ha scritto:
On 08/21/2015 09:44 AM, Marco Calistri wrote:
I could export the "cleaned email" in some way and send it to some of you (to personal email address) do you think it being possible?
No. Please put one copy in some dropbox -- there are many and I'm sure people can suggest one that's convenient for us all -- rather than blasting many copies via email.
I'm using googledrive.
I could pass here the eml file URL.
Thanks
My Goodness! I discovered the issue: it is a very idiot detail but I couldn't nor imagine that could be it! In Thunderbird preferences, View there is the characters control to be marked optionally and one of them is: "Allow messages to use different character", well if I let it marked, the received Outlook HTML email is not displaying the text (empty body) while if I unmark the option, then the message is correctly displayed! It is (to me) really a very strange behavior because Thunderbird root user preferences are set with this option marked and it works correctly as well as correctly are working tests I made with virtual machines running Ubuntu and OpenSUSE Tumbleweed as normal user. Than I cannot see the relation of the issue by setting the preferences this way. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri opensuse 13.2 (Harlequin) 64 bit - Kernel 4.1.5-2-desktop Gnome 3.16.2 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Adam Tauno Williams -
Anton Aylward -
Carlos E. R. -
ellanios82 -
jdd -
Linda Walsh -
Marco Calistri