If you want an easier installation, I suggest Red Hat 5.0. It allows for "kickstart" installation, making the installation of similar configurations (ideal for networks) faster and more efficient. B@N On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:57:11 -0500 Tom Schaefer <netd@fastrans.net> wrote:

We're de-Microsofting a few machines here ... and I'm getting much more familiar with the install process.

Now I know I'm being a big pain in the ass here, but I went through the entire install and stopped to bug you along the way.

One of the things you guys need to be aware of is that there are some 200 million Microsloth PCs out there, vs 8 - 20million Linux/Unix systems. The more you can streamline the install process and refer to things the way people are used to in Microsloth-land, the more acdeptable your distribution will be. I would suggest NOT defaulting to FVWM2, rather FVWM95. I know many Unix power users prefer the FVWM window manager, but you should have a screen in Yast that lets the user pick one, but default to FVWM95, this is what "the unwashed masses" are used to.

Here are "a few" suggestions to streamline the install process.

Let me preface my comments though with one thing I learned a long time ago in Configuration Management Land - a job I did for our pitiful US Postal Service rolling out Windoze 3.1 systems .... : NEVER TAKE A USER TO A MENU UNLESS YOU WANT THEM TO MAKE CHOICES. Thusly, if there really is no choice in a situation, then perform the next step and get on with the install.

1. After the first CD has completed, you have the system sitting there with a very small message in the lower left- hand corner of the screen saying "INSTALLATION COMPLETE". This is erroneous because we all know that we still have 2 CDs to go. Plus, you have the user sitting there with a full menu of choices and no direction on where to go, not a good idea.

Make the message "INSTALLATION COMPLETE" go away and say something else, like, "PHASE ONE COMPLETE". Now rather than expecting the user to know what to do next, you should automatically pull the install forward to the next step: SuSEconfig. I suppose you could put a status message and a "Press enter to continue", but it's not really necessary.

This is where a lot of people screw up. This is where I, back when I was new to SuSE, would (erroneously) go to INSTALL PACKAGES because SuSE skipped the 2nd and 3rd CDs, when I should have gone to Main Menu. You've got it high-lited, but that's not good enough for tinkers. We see that 2 and 3 didn't make it, so we're going to try and figure out why.

2. Since after the first CD, you want to run SuSEconfig, then why not just run it? (Stop and prompt user only for errors) This can be pulled to automatically, and also there should be no need to hit "Continue" at the end of SuSEconfig either, unless some sort of error occurs.

3.Next, after Suseconfig, you've got me back to another Main Menu, and no direction on where to go next. After having done a few SuSE installs, I now know that I need to hit "Finish Installation" - so why don't you just pull the user to the next step. By taking the user to a menu with vague choices you are introducing yet-another-failure-point in the install process. Newbie dies here too easily.

4.Next we are at "Select Kernel". You need a Help Screen here, because the user needs a quick reference to how the kernels have ben gen'd. Experienced users know what they want here, and a quick ref would be nice. Newbies will die here also. In fact, a selection to review what has been autoprobed would be nice at this point so I can get the right kernel - perhaps Yast could make a "suggested kernel" based upon autoprobing.

5. When you get to the choice of GMT or Local Time, perhaps you could default to Local Time, since 99.90f PCs are set to local time in CMOS.

Now - no other distribution has this, but would be nice is a field to just enter "EST5CDT" or whatever time zone you want, rather than having to wade through the list. (Just a small suggestion, we're not dying here)

6. "Real Network" should be the default, not "Loopback"..

7.After DNS config, sendmail, you're running SuSEconfig again. Then we have another "Installation Complete" message, further imprinting in my mind that all the software has been loaded. Wrong.

8. Then we're back to the "Start Install" menu - and if we're running this on a slow system, it takes acouple of seconds to get the "... the new system will be started ..." message. You oughta just start it!

9."Probably Yast has to configure some things" - PROBABLY? What do you mean 'probably'? In English, this sounds like you're not really sure. "Yast is running, stand by ..." would be a better message.

10. "Example User" - Perhaps you should refer to this as "Default User Profile". This lines up with current 'market' i.e. Microsloth thinking.

11.Next, we have a "Confirmation" message telling me that 'during the last session the following packages could not be installed'. A better way to present this would be to say "We are now ready to finish the software load. The following packages are from the 2nd and 3rd CDs, which could not be mounted earlier in the install ...."

12.Then we get to a rather senseless screen about dependencies. Since hitting "AUTO" does nothing, why not just run through the dependencies automatically and get on with it! A small "Checking dependencies ... please stand by ..." message would suffice. Then, get me to the prompt for CD 2 , load software, then CD 3 ... blah blah blah ...

13. At the end of CD 3, we have the "INSTALLATION COMPLETE" message again, and no direction other than "TAB/ESC = Menu" . Newbie response: "Well, what should I do?" Why not have it go directly to the next screen "All installed packages are initialized..." instead of sitting at the previous screen ... in fact, even better would be to just run SuSEconfig and get on with it.

(you're addressing this next item in the next release I think - but I'm including this for reference)

14. After SuSEconfig, we're sitting at a login prompt. Newbie: "Now what, should I login?" Probably not, (and because I, as an experienced installer; now, knew to ALT-F9 to see what's up. Ah, SuSE is 'doing something' ... (unpackingman pages, window manager configs). You need a message after that last SuSEconfig to tell newbie what's going on again. Newbie's not sure what the hell you guys are up to at this point, you've had him hitting 'Continue' and un-intuitively GUESSING which menu selections to hit - Newbie is exhausted and brain dead at this point. Without knowing to hit ALT-F9 he's gonna screw something up again.

Perhaps you can streamline and background the whole thing, so that it's more transparent to the user. For example, even if they have rebooted, you guys run that "Probably Yast has to configure some things ..." message. PROBABLY? Aren't you sure? (Again- bad English) :-) I would run it in background - a simple "Yast is finishing the unpacking of man pages" (or what ever it's doing) and then let the system continue to boot up without incindent or need for user intervention. You can do all that shit as a background process with very little fanfare.

Sorry for being a big pain in the ass with all this, but I believe this is better to be specific than just whining! :)

Again, you folks have the best distribution, and your support in this list has been excellent. Kudos to you guys for responding dispassionately to my whining and complaining (as well as the others!) .

We all have high expectations for Linux, as well as SuSE, and we want to see you succeed.

Keep up the good work!

-tks-

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