[opensuse] Needless flaming and incompetent triaging of bug
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I recently reported a bug report[1] that asked for the separation of the development of opensuse from Novell's due to Novell's problematic deal with MS. But this is not about the content of the bug report. So far, in that bug report, I have got harassed and been called stupid, nonsense, fuck, chicken, brainless, and so on. For some reason, I also got threatened that the bug might get marked as private (should that be scary?). The report got flamed to such a degree that I doubt whether the triagers are serious developers or simple fanboys. So I am writing this to ask you opensuse users and developers to implement a code of conduct to stop your bug triagers from offending, cursing at, and swearing at your customers who are reporting bugs to *make it better* (and I emphasize *better* in there, because I was not trolling at all -why would I wanna bash a community-driven project?). This experience has been incredibly disappointing. AFAIK, bugzilla isn't just to fix buggy software, but also to document, track, diagnose, and fix problems with development as well. Even if it is not, that is not an excuse to insult a user... I hope this email will not end up with me being called "stupid", "nonsense", "fuck", "troll" and so on over and over again. Instead, I would expect at least discussion on and implementation of some kind of code of conduct. (I would be glad if you could cc your replies to my address because I am not subscribed to the list.) Thank you, Sincerely. [1] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=218620 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFUBKILM1JzWwJYEYRAtwhAJ0fO0Fsg6SHhblH07qufDPHQc4XvQCffQ2k ypNPMBpNgtpjSbxjgfio808= =Nw/g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 06 November 2006 20:58, t u wrote:
Hi,
I recently reported a bug report[1] that asked for the separation of the development of opensuse from Novell's due to Novell's problematic deal with MS. But this is not about the content of the bug report.
I would not defend nor condone (if it were up to me, which it is not) the name-calling and foul language (even indirectly by reference to that STFU JPEG), but submitting a blocker-priority bug of this sort was simply asinine. (And note, I'm not calling you an asinine person, but this particular act clearly was.) Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
t u schrieb:
I recently reported a bug report[1] that asked for the separation of the development of opensuse from Novell's due to Novell's problematic deal with MS.
Bugzilla is the wrong channel for such complaints because Bugzilla is a development tool and your request has nothing to do with software development. It only blocks the handling of real bugs and prevents software engineers from doing their work. The software engineers can't help you with this because they are software engineers and not CEOs. All the purpose of this report is demotivating software engineers who are not at all responsible for this stuff.
So far, in that bug report, I have got harassed and been called stupid, nonsense, fuck, chicken, brainless, and so on. For some reason, I also got threatened that the bug might get marked as private
This is the way bug reports whose resolution is not accepted by the reporter and which are contantly reopened are typically handled. The software engineers have to defend themselves somehow.
(I would be glad if you could cc your replies to my address because I am not subscribed to the list.)
What a pity, subscribing now might be a good idea if you're interested in the future of the project. But the general assumption that either of the chosen channels (Bugzilla, Mailinglist) were appropriate is wrong. You have to accept that openSUSE 10.2 is currently very close to the release, in a stage where all "Blocker" bugs get very special handling and it's necessary to filter all wrong "Blockers" out to make sure that the valid ones get their attention. Sorry, t u: This was a shoot in your leg, learn from it and do it better next time. Andreas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 06 November 2006 22:58, t u wrote:
Hi,
I recently reported a bug report[1] that asked for the separation of the development of opensuse from Novell's due to Novell's problematic deal with MS. But this is not about the content of the bug report.
It wasn't a bug report. You *were* trolling, but don't seem to have the courage to admit it.
So far, in that bug report, I have got harassed and been called stupid,
They were right.
nonsense, fuck, chicken, brainless, and so on.
They were still right.
For some reason, I also got threatened that the bug might get marked as private (should that be scary?). The report got flamed to such a degree that I doubt whether the triagers are serious developers or simple fanboys.
They're developers waiting for *REAL* bug reports to work on, you 'tard! <snip rest of garbage> -- Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented worker', is like calling a home intruder an 'unwanted houseguest'. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
JB wrote:
On Monday 06 November 2006 22:58, t u wrote:
Hi,
I recently reported a bug report[1] that asked for the separation of the development of opensuse from Novell's due to Novell's problematic deal with MS. But this is not about the content of the bug report.
It wasn't a bug report. You *were* trolling, but don't seem to have the courage to admit it.
as allways: there atr a lof of views about trolling, what that mean and at witch time someone is doing it. my view isn't the same then yours ( even I think a bugreport wasn't the best way for the OP ). btw: is troll or trolling also an englisch knowen word ?
So far, in that bug report, I have got harassed and been called stupid,
They were right.
again: there are diffs: its your view. now mine. so if you are on a public list, make clear that this is what you are thinking, not automatic the list or the community.
nonsense, fuck, chicken, brainless, and so on.
They were still right.
and ones agian: your view. you are not speeking for me. and there was no time where the comminty has choosen you or any otherone as speaker for them. btw: why isn't there any ?
For some reason, I also got threatened that the bug might get marked as private (should that be scary?). The report got flamed to such a degree that I doubt whether the triagers are serious developers or simple fanboys.
They're developers waiting for *REAL* bug reports to work on
thats right.
, you 'tard!
who do you think you are that you can talk to other that way, and spec. on a public list ? there are ( spoken and unspoken ) rules about how to talk and act against others. why do you think you don't have to respect the rules, and spec. other on the list ?
<snip rest of garbage>
I think also as others that open and reopen a bugreport wasn't a good choice. so at this point we are on the same side. but why on all on earth do you ( and other that have commend the bugreport ) think you can act that way ? for me _you_ are acting like a troll, and at this point I 'm ashame about the fact the you and I share the same list and the same community. or, as I have already said ones a time: there are people that are only names on a list in my view; they are not part of a comminity. members of a comminity act more friendly. aspecialy when there is a discussion on one or more points. will be nice if some people think a few more minutes before they act or answer a post. thanks for your listening. JBScout aka Tom --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 07 November 2006 01:21, JB wrote: Tom, this is not the COLA. Although t u asked for something that no one can give him, specially not engineering that is using bugzilla, repeating insults is not the way to handle this. With this kind of language you make bad picture of all of us, not only you. If you can't handle this kind of posts with dignity ignore message and let somebody else do that. -- Regards, Rajko M. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 06 November 2006 22:58, t u wrote:
Hi,
I recently reported a bug report[1] that asked for the separation of the development of opensuse from Novell's due to Novell's problematic deal with MS. But this is not about the content of the bug report.
So far, in that bug report, I have got harassed and been called stupid, nonsense, fuck, chicken, brainless, and so on. For some reason, I also got threatened that the bug might get marked as private (should that be scary?). The report got flamed to such a degree that I doubt whether the triagers are serious developers or simple fanboys.
Everybody with Novell account can access bugzilla, like you did. So blaming "triagers" which implies official support personell shows at leat lack of understanding. I can't access bug so I can't see what happened, but if you was persistant in opening bug report that is actually not technical issue, than I can imagine why bug was marked as private. You was interfering with development of openSUSE and that is for sure not what you want (I guess).
So I am writing this to ask you opensuse users and developers to implement a code of conduct to stop
your bug triagers
Not our bug triagers, as they will not allow themselves to drop to childish level and use bad language.
from offending, cursing at, and swearing at your customers
Customer is commercial term, we talk about users.
who are reporting bugs to *make it better* (and I emphasize *better* in there, because I was not trolling at all -why would I wanna bash a community-driven project?).
The code of conduct is pretty much established and it tells that business decisions doesn't belong to bugzilla. Asking "for the separation of the development of opensuse from Novell's" is asking for business decision and so far I understand purpose of openSUSE project that is just what you are asking for.
This experience has been incredibly disappointing.
AFAIK, bugzilla isn't just to fix buggy software, but also to document, track, diagnose, and fix problems with development as well.
Note that development has it's bussines and technical part. The bugzilla is engineering tool. Posting there message that has nothing to do with technical part of development is breaking the rules of conduct.
Even if it is not, that is not an excuse to insult a user...
I hope this email will not end up with me being called "stupid", "nonsense", "fuck", "troll" and so on over and over again. Instead, I would expect at least discussion on and implementation of some kind of code of conduct.
For this list code is already present http://en.opensuse.org/Opensuse_mailing_list_netiquette and what is missing there is explained in many other Internet sources.
(I would be glad if you could cc your replies to my address because I am not subscribed to the list.)
Sorry, I can't. If you posting here and want to discuss something than please be nice and subscribe again.
Thank you,
Sincerely.
??
[1] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=218620 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-- Regards, Rajko M. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Andreas Hanke -
JB -
Rajko M -
Randall R Schulz -
t u -
T. Lodewick