[opensuse] which one to use: kmp default or kmp pae or kmp vanilla
if we'd like to update our kernel or install SuSEee, there are always many choices for kernel like kernel default, kernel pae, kernerl vanilla and so on. As a desktop user (eee pc user), which one is the most suitable for me? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 28 April 2009 01:13:30 am Hawit wrote:
if we'd like to update our kernel or install SuSEee, there are always many choices for kernel like kernel default, kernel pae, kernerl vanilla and so on. As a desktop user (eee pc user), which one is the most suitable for me?
Let installer select the one. It will check processor and decide according to CPU supported features. -- Regards, Rajko http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
problem is they are all available once you add it to Yast repositories. I am using eee pc 1000HE with N280 Intel processor. so which one should go with?
On Tuesday 28 April 2009 01:13:30 am Hawit wrote:
if we'd like to update our kernel or install SuSEee, there are always many choices for kernel like kernel default, kernel pae, kernerl vanilla and so on. As a desktop user (eee pc user), which one is the most suitable for me?
Let installer select the one. It will check processor and decide according to CPU supported features.
-- Regards, Rajko http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hawit wrote:
problem is they are all available once you add it to Yast repositories. I am using eee pc 1000HE with N280 Intel processor. so which one should go with?
On Tuesday 28 April 2009 01:13:30 am Hawit wrote:
if we'd like to update our kernel or install SuSEee, there are always many choices for kernel like kernel default, kernel pae, kernerl vanilla and so on. As a desktop user (eee pc user), which one is the most suitable for me? Let installer select the one. It will check processor and decide according to CPU supported features.
-- Regards, Rajko http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, I describe what each kernel flavor mean: default - standard suse kernel pae - extended adress space for 32 bit kernel, useful if you has more then 4GB of memory (for 3-4GB It is also useful for one big memory consuming application) vanilla - kernel without suse patches JR -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
At Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:52:38 +0200, Josef Reidinger wrote:
Hawit wrote:
problem is they are all available once you add it to Yast repositories. I am using eee pc 1000HE with N280 Intel processor. so which one should go with?
On Tuesday 28 April 2009 01:13:30 am Hawit wrote:
if we'd like to update our kernel or install SuSEee, there are always many choices for kernel like kernel default, kernel pae, kernerl vanilla and so on. As a desktop user (eee pc user), which one is the most suitable for me? Let installer select the one. It will check processor and decide according to CPU supported features.
-- Regards, Rajko http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, I describe what each kernel flavor mean: default - standard suse kernel pae - extended adress space for 32 bit kernel, useful if you has more then 4GB of memory (for 3-4GB It is also useful for one big memory consuming application)
Nowadays kernel-pae is the standard kernel for 32bit x86 since it supports NX & co for a better security. That's why YaST suggests this normally (depending on CPU, though). On 11.2, kernel-pae will be renamed to kernel-default, and the old kernel-default will be kernel-legacy. ISA devices will be supported only by kernel-legacy in future. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:53 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
Nowadays kernel-pae is the standard kernel for 32bit x86 since it supports NX & co for a better security. That's why YaST suggests this normally (depending on CPU, though).
On 11.2, kernel-pae will be renamed to kernel-default, and the old kernel-default will be kernel-legacy. ISA devices will be supported only by kernel-legacy in future.
I noticed some issues on my older P3 systems with the PAE kernel. Cleared up once I installed the default kernel. The problem with the PAE kernel is that unless you are running a 64bit chip with a 32bit kernel, the only 32bit processor that uses the NX bit is the Intel Core Solo/Duo. Otherwise, it's pointless. Further, very few 32bit systems outside of servers even have the ability to run more than 4GB. None of my P3 systems can see more than 2GB RAM(Yes, even the PPro could access up to 64GB, but it is a very rare 32bit system that can access more than 4GB. I'm willing to bet that 98% can't physically see more than 4GB. Therefore, I've always maintained that the PAE test for the NX bit isn't the best idea. It should be possible to detect the presense of a 64bit chip or the Intel Core chip directly and not have to use the PAE kernel on systems that won't benefit from them. Even the default kernel is SMP aware for those of us who have Dual(or more) Processor systems.
From the wikipedia article:
"Enabling PAE (by setting bit 5, PAE, of the system register CR4) causes major changes to this scheme. By default, the size of each page remains as 4 KB. Each entry in the page table and page directory is extended to 64 bits (8 bytes) rather than 32 bits to allow for additional address bits; however, the size of tables does not change, so both table and directory now have only 512 entries. Because this allows only half as many entries as the original scheme, an extra level of hierarchy has been added, so CR3 now points to the Page Directory Pointer Table, a short table which contains pointers to 4 page directories." Seems like a lot of overheard for very little gain IMO. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Larry Stotler <larrystotler@gmail.com> wrote:
The problem with the PAE kernel is that unless you are running a 64bit chip with a 32bit kernel, the only 32bit processor that uses the NX bit is the Intel Core Solo/Duo.
Actually some of the 533fsb Pentium M's had it as well it would seem. Still a very small set of 32bit chips................. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
At Tue, 28 Apr 2009 23:29:50 -0400, Larry Stotler wrote:
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:53 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
Nowadays kernel-pae is the standard kernel for 32bit x86 since it supports NX & co for a better security. That's why YaST suggests this normally (depending on CPU, though).
On 11.2, kernel-pae will be renamed to kernel-default, and the old kernel-default will be kernel-legacy. ISA devices will be supported only by kernel-legacy in future.
I noticed some issues on my older P3 systems with the PAE kernel. Cleared up once I installed the default kernel. The problem with the PAE kernel is that unless you are running a 64bit chip with a 32bit kernel, the only 32bit processor that uses the NX bit is the Intel Core Solo/Duo. Otherwise, it's pointless.
Right. YaST should be clever enough to detect that. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:01 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
Right. YaST should be clever enough to detect that.
So, something that can cause a problem on some systems will just continue to be enabled by default? Once again, these are the decisions that are making openSUSE less and less the distro of choice for many. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
At Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:19:53 -0400, Larry Stotler wrote:
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:01 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
Right. YaST should be clever enough to detect that.
So, something that can cause a problem on some systems will just continue to be enabled by default?
If the default choice doesn't work for you, please just report on bugzilla. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 29 April 2009 08:33:40 am Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:19:53 -0400,
Larry Stotler wrote:
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:01 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
Right. YaST should be clever enough to detect that.
So, something that can cause a problem on some systems will just continue to be enabled by default?
If the default choice doesn't work for you, please just report on bugzilla.
What kind of an answer is that? The users who don't read this list, and all of the new users are going to know about the differences in the kernels? What about all of the older systems with ISA devices? Just allow the un-renamed default kernel to remain "default". Then the users who are in the know who want the pae kernel can install it. Here we go again, Shoving stuff down our throat without consideration of the consequences.Two previous examples come to mind. First the pata sata fiasco limiting our partitions, then more recently the KDE4.0 fiasco. Now a kernel that won't work for everybody? Why? What? is wrong with you people? Why Oh Why? do you feel compelled to do these things ???? Please, convince me that I am wrong about this !! Bob S -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 29 April 2009 11:16:38 pm Bob S wrote:
On Wednesday 29 April 2009 08:33:40 am Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:19:53 -0400,
Larry Stotler wrote:
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:01 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
Right. YaST should be clever enough to detect that.
So, something that can cause a problem on some systems will just continue to be enabled by default?
If the default choice doesn't work for you, please just report on bugzilla.
What kind of an answer is that?
Logical. If there is a problem ask developers to solve it. How? Trough http://bugzilla.novell.com . Don't know how? Ask somebody. I can help to file a bug report, for instance, help to explain what developers asked, or ask them if I didn't get it. Although, I will not spend time chasing anybody to follow up on his bug report. Even more, if I'm involved, bug report will not stay open for good, it will be diligently closed if there is no response within a week. New machines are coming, you can't use "safe" i386 forever. (how many times this has to be repeated)
The users who don't read this list, and all of the new users are going to know about the differences in the kernels?
As mentioned, if not sure leave decision to Installer. It will test is PAE/NX supported by your computer and make decision. With NX security is improved. I guess everybody wants that, instead of using default kernel that has no such benefit.
What about all of the older systems with ISA devices? Just allow the un-renamed default kernel to remain "default". Then the users who are in the know who want the pae kernel can install it.
PAE/NX has nothing to do with ISA support. And name obsolete (or old) doesn't change kernel in any way. It is just stating that you use stuff from yesterday.
Here we go again, Shoving stuff down our throat without consideration of the consequences.
If you didn't noticed, in hurry to attack. default will be offered.
Two previous examples come to mind. First the pata sata fiasco limiting our partitions, then more recently the KDE4.0 fiasco.
PAE is in use for some time on every computer where user doesn't try to outsmart Installer. I don't see many complains.
Now a kernel that won't work for everybody?
I know many kernels that not work on this computer :-) (any 64 bit doesn't)
Why? What? is wrong with you people? Why Oh Why? do you feel compelled to do these things ???? Please, convince me that I am wrong about this !!
If you read above, by now you should understand that you just jumped without knowing details. I use kernel-pae without problems and I didn't break my head with answer what to use. I can't see does my processor support NX, but Installer can, so why in the world I would try to make decision. Besides, Takashi can tell you for sure, while I guess, that PAE will not be used if you don't have more than 4 GB RAM, and that happens automatically. The same is with NX bit, which is independent function that is enabled, or disabled, depending on your CPU. In other words, using PAE kernel just makes possible to use PAE, or NX bit, so there will be increased security without time penalty imposed by PAE part (as Larry suggested after reading incomplete, or obsolete, Wikipedia article).
Bob S
-- Regards, Rajko http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
At Thu, 30 Apr 2009 01:07:23 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:
On Wednesday 29 April 2009 11:16:38 pm Bob S wrote:
On Wednesday 29 April 2009 08:33:40 am Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:19:53 -0400,
Larry Stotler wrote:
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:01 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
Right. YaST should be clever enough to detect that.
So, something that can cause a problem on some systems will just continue to be enabled by default?
If the default choice doesn't work for you, please just report on bugzilla.
What kind of an answer is that?
Logical. If there is a problem ask developers to solve it. How? Trough http://bugzilla.novell.com . Don't know how? Ask somebody. I can help to file a bug report, for instance, help to explain what developers asked, or ask them if I didn't get it.
Although, I will not spend time chasing anybody to follow up on his bug report. Even more, if I'm involved, bug report will not stay open for good, it will be diligently closed if there is no response within a week.
New machines are coming, you can't use "safe" i386 forever. (how many times this has to be repeated)
The users who don't read this list, and all of the new users are going to know about the differences in the kernels?
As mentioned, if not sure leave decision to Installer.
Right. At least, it must not "break". That's why I suggested to report the bug if the default choice doesn't work. Any breakage about kernel update is unintended. ... snip ...
Besides, Takashi can tell you for sure, while I guess, that PAE will not be used if you don't have more than 4 GB RAM, and that happens automatically.
The same is with NX bit, which is independent function that is enabled, or disabled, depending on your CPU.
Well, I'm not pretty sure whether YaST does the correct choice now. I guess it rather chooses a safer side (= pae kernel) on 11.1. If so, there is really a many room to improve there. Thus, a proper process to escalate would be more helpful, i.e. reporting on bugzilla or FATE, indeed. thanks, Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hawit wrote:
problem is they are all available once you add it to Yast repositories. I am using eee pc 1000HE with N280 Intel processor. so which one should go with?
On Tuesday 28 April 2009 01:13:30 am Hawit wrote:
if we'd like to update our kernel or install SuSEee, there are always many choices for kernel like kernel default, kernel pae, kernerl vanilla and so on. As a desktop user (eee pc user), which one is the most suitable for me? Let installer select the one. It will check processor and decide according to CPU supported features.
-- Regards, Rajko http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, I describe what each kernel flavor mean: default - standard suse kernel pae - extended adress space for 32 bit kernel, useful if you has more then 4GB of memory (for 3-4GB It is also useful for one big memory consuming application) vanilla - kernel without suse patches
JR -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
thx all for the explanation. i'll go with kernel default since i only have 1GB of memory.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 28 April 2009 03:36:50 am Hawit wrote:
problem is they are all available once you add it to Yast repositories. I am using eee pc 1000HE with N280 Intel processor. so which one should go with?
Don't mix what is available and what Installer will select. If you are not sure, just use default installation and it will use appropriate kernel. -- Regards, Rajko http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Bob S -
Hawit -
Josef Reidinger -
Larry Stotler -
Rajko M. -
Takashi Iwai