[opensuse] Getting ready for 13.2 - A little help?
I've been holding back with 12.3 (and quite happy with it), but don't want to fall too far behind, and am planning to once again disrupt life I know it with 13.2 on my principal workstation. (all properly backed up and stuff). If 12.3 wasn't going to fall off support, I wouldn't be doing this at all. 12.3 was THAT good! So now the big question: When it all goes live next month..... Regular 13.2 -or- Tumbleweed(new)? Which gives me the best chance of not fighting broken stuff and being reasonably current for the longest time? I tend to keep up with updates, running apper and at least once a week checking yast mostly for the KDE and Xorg updates. (I generally know how to stay out of trouble in this area and avoid breaking my system). What would you guys recommend? Also If you have an opinion: Why would anyone install 13.2 and face an upgrade every X months, when they could just as well run the new Tumbleweed? With a an officially supported rolling release (finally) what is the point of the numbered releases going forward? -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:51:40 -0700 John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> wrote:
So now the big question: When it all goes live next month.....
Regular 13.2 -or- Tumbleweed(new)?
Go with 13.2.
Which gives me the best chance of not fighting broken stuff and being reasonably current for the longest time?
In that case, go with 13.1, and follow it onto Evergreen support.
Also If you have an opinion: Why would anyone install 13.2 and face an upgrade every X months, when they could just as well run the new Tumbleweed? With a an officially supported rolling release (finally) what is the point of the numbered releases going forward?
I'll be installing 13.2. Tumbleweed will probably be fine, and I'll also use that on one computer. But I expect Tumbleweed to break every now and then. It won't be a totally hopeless break (I hope) because of the OpenQA testing. But they don't test everything. They rely on ordinary users to find what is broken in most everyday software. So I want to have a solid 13.2 around. If traveling with laptop, I don't want to take the risk of Tumbleweed. Something might break at an inconvenient time. And for my main desktop, I also like some stability. Maybe I'll switch that to Tumbleweed as we approach the 13.3 release, but I'll stay with stable for a while. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On October 28, 2014 8:25:07 PM EDT, Neil Rickert <nrickert@ameritech.net> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:51:40 -0700 John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> wrote:
So now the big question: When it all goes live next month.....
Regular 13.2 -or- Tumbleweed(new)?
Go with 13.2.
Which gives me the best chance of not fighting broken stuff and being reasonably current for the longest time?
In that case, go with 13.1, and follow it onto Evergreen support.
Also If you have an opinion: Why would anyone install 13.2 and face an upgrade every X months, when they could just as well run the new Tumbleweed? With a an officially supported rolling release (finally) what is the point of the numbered releases going forward?
I'll be installing 13.2. Tumbleweed will probably be fine, and I'll also use that on one computer. But I expect Tumbleweed to break every now and then. It won't be a totally hopeless break (I hope) because of the OpenQA testing. But they don't test everything. They rely on ordinary users to find what is broken in most everyday software.
So I want to have a solid 13.2 around. If traveling with laptop, I don't want to take the risk of Tumbleweed. Something might break at an inconvenient time. And for my main desktop, I also like some stability. Maybe I'll switch that to Tumbleweed as we approach the 13.3 release, but I'll stay with stable for a while.
For the lurkers, next week's Tumbleweed is very different from today's so read the news if you don't know what that's about. ==== Basically agreeing with everything Neil said. Also expect routine Tumbleweed "zypper dup" updates to be large, so don't jump on tumbleweed if you don't have a big pipe and/or can't handle a little adventure in your life. The new Tumbleweed will likely have 10,000 or more users, so it should be pretty stable, but not as stable as a numbered release. I'm planning to stick with 13.2 on laptop. My server may not transition out of 13.1 until the end of Evergreen support. Greg -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/28/2014 7:17 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On October 28, 2014 8:25:07 PM EDT, Neil Rickert <nrickert@ameritech.net> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:51:40 -0700 John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> wrote:
So now the big question: When it all goes live next month.....
Regular 13.2 -or- Tumbleweed(new)? Go with 13.2.
Which gives me the best chance of not fighting broken stuff and being reasonably current for the longest time? In that case, go with 13.1, and follow it onto Evergreen support.
Also If you have an opinion: Why would anyone install 13.2 and face an upgrade every X months, when they could just as well run the new Tumbleweed? With a an officially supported rolling release (finally) what is the point of the numbered releases going forward? I'll be installing 13.2. Tumbleweed will probably be fine, and I'll also use that on one computer. But I expect Tumbleweed to break every now and then. It won't be a totally hopeless break (I hope) because of the OpenQA testing. But they don't test everything. They rely on ordinary users to find what is broken in most everyday software.
So I want to have a solid 13.2 around. If traveling with laptop, I don't want to take the risk of Tumbleweed. Something might break at an inconvenient time. And for my main desktop, I also like some stability. Maybe I'll switch that to Tumbleweed as we approach the 13.3 release, but I'll stay with stable for a while. For the lurkers, next week's Tumbleweed is very different from today's so read the news if you don't know what that's about.
==== Basically agreeing with everything Neil said.
Also expect routine Tumbleweed "zypper dup" updates to be large, so don't jump on tumbleweed if you don't have a big pipe and/or can't handle a little adventure in your life.
The new Tumbleweed will likely have 10,000 or more users, so it should be pretty stable, but not as stable as a numbered release.
I'm planning to stick with 13.2 on laptop. My server may not transition out of 13.1 until the end of Evergreen support.
Greg
Thanks for weighing in... I was aware that Tumbleweed(new) was going to be very new, and all the write-ups seemed to suggest it was promised to be much more stable and bug free than prior editions, since it is no longer just a spare time project of Greg K-H's. https://news.opensuse.org/2014/10/24/tumbleweed-factory-rolling-releases-to-... That page, and a number of discussions suggested this would much cleaner. I Guess if you don't trust that, its word to the wise, which is exactly what I was looking for. I was hoping a rolling release would keep me from having to do this every 18 months. (Win7 machine: 5 years since installed). I was planning a totally fresh install, (coming from 12.3 to 13.2 on an in-place update seems a bit hopeful to me), as I need to re-partition my disk anyway). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 29/10/2014 03:58, John M Andersen a écrit :
I was planning a totally fresh install, (coming from 12.3 to 13.2 on an in-place update seems a bit hopeful to me),
depends of what is installed. As an example, I had to "revive" an old susestudio image (kde live in french), from the 11.x time. Studio said "I have to update to build", then updated the image one step after the other, for 5 or 6 different versions up to 13.1 and the image runned perfectly well. but of course this is strictly standard software (but going through all the systemd change). jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On October 28, 2014 10:58:53 PM EDT, John M Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/28/2014 7:17 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On October 28, 2014 8:25:07 PM EDT, Neil Rickert
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:51:40 -0700 John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> wrote:
So now the big question: When it all goes live next month.....
Regular 13.2 -or- Tumbleweed(new)? Go with 13.2.
Which gives me the best chance of not fighting broken stuff and being reasonably current for the longest time? In that case, go with 13.1, and follow it onto Evergreen support.
Also If you have an opinion: Why would anyone install 13.2 and face an upgrade every X months, when they could just as well run the new Tumbleweed? With a an officially supported rolling release (finally) what is the point of the numbered releases going forward? I'll be installing 13.2. Tumbleweed will probably be fine, and I'll also use that on one computer. But I expect Tumbleweed to break every now and then. It won't be a totally hopeless break (I hope) because of the OpenQA testing. But they don't test everything. They rely on ordinary users to find what is broken in most everyday software.
So I want to have a solid 13.2 around. If traveling with laptop, I don't want to take the risk of Tumbleweed. Something might break at an inconvenient time. And for my main desktop, I also like some stability. Maybe I'll switch that to Tumbleweed as we approach the 13.3 release, but I'll stay with stable for a while. For the lurkers, next week's Tumbleweed is very different from today's so read the news if you don't know what that's about.
==== Basically agreeing with everything Neil said.
Also expect routine Tumbleweed "zypper dup" updates to be large, so don't jump on tumbleweed if you don't have a big pipe and/or can't handle a little adventure in your life.
The new Tumbleweed will likely have 10,000 or more users, so it should be pretty stable, but not as stable as a numbered release.
I'm planning to stick with 13.2 on laptop. My server may not
<nrickert@ameritech.net> wrote: transition out of 13.1 until the end of Evergreen support.
Greg
Thanks for weighing in...
I was aware that Tumbleweed(new) was going to be very new, and all the write-ups seemed to suggest it was promised to be much more stable and bug free than prior editions, since it is no longer just a spare time project of Greg K-H's. https://news.opensuse.org/2014/10/24/tumbleweed-factory-rolling-releases-to-... That page, and a number of discussions suggested this would much cleaner. I Guess if you don't trust that, its word to the wise, which is exactly
Both of the systems I talked about are "production". I do billable work on both, so I'm somewhat risk averse on them. The old tumbleweed process was: Development / testing of packages in isolation Integration into factory Human testing Selected packages integrated into tumbleweed Tumbleweed released with minimal testing The new process: Development / testing of packages in isolation Integration into factory via rings of testing Automated testing Tumbleweed released with minimal human testing The good news is that the automated testing is pretty complete for core areas and there is no doubt in my mind the new Tumbleweed is more stable than the old factory. Take a little time and review: https://openqa.opensuse.org/ Look at the test results and all the test suites they are running. They have lots of screenshots gathered during the automated testing as well as videos of each test run. I'm no expert on the other distros, but I wonder if any of them have as much automated testing as opensuse factory is now getting? The issue for me is that by definition the packages going into factory are bleeding edge and there is no "human selection" of packages that get moved to the new Tumbleweed. As soon as the automated testing passes for an entire factory snapshot everything in factory gets rolled out to tumbleweed. Part of me thinks that is great, but the risk adverse part of me says "no way."
what I was looking for.
I was hoping a rolling release would keep me from having to do this every 18 months.
"zypper dup" has become pretty stable over the last couple years. Why not just do it every major release (every 8 months)? I had a few issues with systemd after zypper dup to 13.1 from 12.3 but I think that is behind us so moving to 13.2 and future I expect to be smooth.
(Win7 machine: 5 years since installed).
I was planning a totally fresh install, (coming from 12.3 to 13.2 on an in-place update seems a bit hopeful to me), as I need to re-partition my disk anyway).
If you go in-place, I'd download the full DVD and do it off-line. Greg -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/29/2014 03:58 AM, John M Andersen wrote:
On 10/28/2014 7:17 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On October 28, 2014 8:25:07 PM EDT, Neil Rickert <nrickert@ameritech.net> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:51:40 -0700 John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> wrote:
So now the big question: When it all goes live next month.....
Regular 13.2 -or- Tumbleweed(new)? Go with 13.2.
Which gives me the best chance of not fighting broken stuff and being reasonably current for the longest time? In that case, go with 13.1, and follow it onto Evergreen support.
Also If you have an opinion: Why would anyone install 13.2 and face an upgrade every X months, when they could just as well run the new Tumbleweed? With a an officially supported rolling release (finally) what is the point of the numbered releases going forward? I'll be installing 13.2. Tumbleweed will probably be fine, and I'll also use that on one computer. But I expect Tumbleweed to break every now and then. It won't be a totally hopeless break (I hope) because of the OpenQA testing. But they don't test everything. They rely on ordinary users to find what is broken in most everyday software.
So I want to have a solid 13.2 around. If traveling with laptop, I don't want to take the risk of Tumbleweed. Something might break at an inconvenient time. And for my main desktop, I also like some stability. Maybe I'll switch that to Tumbleweed as we approach the 13.3 release, but I'll stay with stable for a while. For the lurkers, next week's Tumbleweed is very different from today's so read the news if you don't know what that's about.
==== Basically agreeing with everything Neil said.
Also expect routine Tumbleweed "zypper dup" updates to be large, so don't jump on tumbleweed if you don't have a big pipe and/or can't handle a little adventure in your life.
The new Tumbleweed will likely have 10,000 or more users, so it should be pretty stable, but not as stable as a numbered release.
I'm planning to stick with 13.2 on laptop. My server may not transition out of 13.1 until the end of Evergreen support.
Greg
Thanks for weighing in...
I was aware that Tumbleweed(new) was going to be very new, and all the write-ups seemed to suggest it was promised to be much more stable and bug free than prior editions, since it is no longer just a spare time project of Greg K-H's. https://news.opensuse.org/2014/10/24/tumbleweed-factory-rolling-releases-to-...
That page, and a number of discussions suggested this would much cleaner. I Guess if you don't trust that, its word to the wise, which is exactly what I was looking for.
I was hoping a rolling release would keep me from having to do this every 18 months. (Win7 machine: 5 years since installed).
I was planning a totally fresh install, (coming from 12.3 to 13.2 on an in-place update seems a bit hopeful to me), as I need to re-partition my disk anyway).
I have a laptop with win7, swap and 2 ext4 partitions. The ext4 partitions have os 12.3 and os 13.1 fresh installs. The 12.3 is my "production" system, fully updated and running very nicely. The 13.1 is the system I have been "playing" with and getting to fully configured state. I usually have two systems like this and move my data to the higher number near the end of life of the older release. The partition that has the older, obsolete system then gets a fresh install of the latest release and I play with that until I move to it or I do a fresh install of the latest release. I am now going to change that strategy that I've used for some years. My plan is to zypper dup the 12.3 to move it to 13.1. When I am satisfied that all is running well (I've already successfully done it on an out of service laptop), then I will do a zypper dup again to move it to 13.2. If that succeeds and I am happy with the result, then I will run that system until 13.3 comes out and zypper dup again. If the progressive upgrade (12.3 to 13.1 to 13.2 to 13.3) totally breaks at any time, I will move my data to the 13.1 system on the other partition (which I plan to convert to "evergreen". I have always done fresh installs up till now, but I think that the upgrade process has matured enough to give me a good option. Having 13.1 evergreen is a a great stand by. I played with 11.2 and 11.4 evergreens and I liked both, so I think it is a very viable option for a long running system. It would be great to be able to run a rolling release like tumbleweed, but I am just not knowledgeable enough to tackle that. Gustav.
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participants (6)
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Greg Freemyer -
Gustav Degreef -
jdd -
John Andersen -
John M Andersen
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Neil Rickert