I hope I'm wrong but it looks like 15.4-kde will be my last one. I haven tried only the kde desktop but I see no way to set up a conventional Application launcher with thew cascading menu tree. I even pre-copied an entire user folder from 15.4 but none of that had any effect. What I do see is a smartphoneish, microcancerish, touchpadish deskdump of which I will have none. Tomorrow I'll look at the XFCE setup.
On 4/21/23 19:46, bent fender wrote:
I hope I'm wrong but it looks like 15.4-kde will be my last one.
I haven tried only the kde desktop but I see no way to set up a conventional Application launcher with thew cascading menu tree. I even pre-copied an entire user folder from 15.4 but none of that had any effect. What I do see is a smartphoneish, microcancerish, touchpadish deskdump of which I will have none. Tomorrow I'll look at the XFCE setup.
Your missing out, the KDE3 repo is the best in the world -- and still just as good as you remember it :) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 4/21/23 22:20, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 4/21/23 19:46, bent fender wrote:
I hope I'm wrong but it looks like 15.4-kde will be my last one.
I haven tried only the kde desktop but I see no way to set up a conventional Application launcher with thew cascading menu tree. I even pre-copied an entire user folder from 15.4 but none of that had any effect. What I do see is a smartphoneish, microcancerish, touchpadish deskdump of which I will have none. Tomorrow I'll look at the XFCE setup.
Your missing out, the KDE3 repo is the best in the world -- and still just as good as you remember it :)
Oh, You will need to grab the 15.3 desktop-data-openSUSE-15.0.20171024-lp153.1.53.src.rpm for the xdg menu categories (otherwise all items are just dumped in the menu). This change was a result of Gnome -- and it really sucks. This is one addition that should be added to the KDE3 repo -- but it does affect all desktops. Why SUSE let the gnome tail wag the openSUSE dog is bewildering... -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
David C. Rankin composed on 2023-04-21 22:20 (UTC-0500):
Your missing out, the KDE3 repo is the best in the world -- and still just as good as you remember it :)
How are you able to avoid https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1047852 ??? -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
On 4/21/23 22:29, Felix Miata wrote:
David C. Rankin composed on 2023-04-21 22:20 (UTC-0500):
Your missing out, the KDE3 repo is the best in the world -- and still just as good as you remember it :)
How are you able to avoid https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1047852 ???
Are you talking about the kmessage logging of the jack crash? It is more an annoyance than any functionality issue. Other than being a-retentive and scouring .xsession-errors ... I just ignore the: jack_client_new: deprecated Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started JackShmReadWritePtr::~JackShmReadWritePtr - Init not done for -1, skipping unlock JackShmReadWritePtr::~JackShmReadWritePtr - Init not done for -1, skipping unlock (been that way for years now :) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
David C. Rankin composed on 2023-04-21 23:44 (UTC-0400):
On 4/21/23 22:29, Felix Miata wrote:
David C. Rankin composed on 2023-04-21 22:20 (UTC-0500):
Your missing out, the KDE3 repo is the best in the world -- and still just as good as you remember it :)
How are you able to avoid https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1047852 ???
Are you talking about the kmessage logging of the jack crash? It is more an annoyance than any functionality issue. Other than being a-retentive and scouring .xsession-errors ... I just ignore the:
jack_client_new: deprecated Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started JackShmReadWritePtr::~JackShmReadWritePtr - Init not done for -1, skipping unlock JackShmReadWritePtr::~JackShmReadWritePtr - Init not done for -1, skipping unlock
(been that way for years now :)
I don't care about the logging. I care about the disappearance of system sounds until logging out and back in. It only takes as little as one day before the crash and disappearance occur. ATM @37 hours up it's still working in the current session, so it's due again any time. :( -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
Fri, 21 Apr 2023 23:52:48 -0400 Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> :
David C. Rankin composed on 2023-04-21 23:44 (UTC-0400):
On 4/21/23 22:29, Felix Miata wrote:
David C. Rankin composed on 2023-04-21 22:20 (UTC-0500):
Your missing out, the KDE3 repo is the best in the world -- and still just as good as you remember it :)
How are you able to avoid https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1047852 ???
Are you talking about the kmessage logging of the jack crash? It is more an annoyance than any functionality issue. Other than being a-retentive and scouring .xsession-errors ... I just ignore the:
jack_client_new: deprecated Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started JackShmReadWritePtr::~JackShmReadWritePtr - Init not done for -1, skipping unlock JackShmReadWritePtr::~JackShmReadWritePtr - Init not done for -1, skipping unlock
(been that way for years now :)
I don't care about the logging. I care about the disappearance of system sounds until logging out and back in. It only takes as little as one day before the crash and disappearance occur. ATM @37 hours up it's still working in the current session, so it's due again any time. :( -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata
*Some* of the issues are surely only beta issues but I sure hope that the desktop is not one of those! There seems to be a relentless push for smartphone/desktop commonality. The entire circus reminds me of where cars were at the turn of the previous century. There were far too many models with far too many weird features and the les tecnically inclined had to learn how to hand-crank and change tires in the mud or stay clear. Eventually it was the users who decided what went and what stayed on the shelf, not the designers whose role it is to present options. The future gets steered by the users, so if you're smart you ask them. The desktop will no more be equivalent to the smartphone than a cooupe or SUV will ever be equivalent to a Harley. It would be wise to remember that. So someone in the know please tell me, is this puke desktop hard-wired into Leap now? I don't like wasting my time.
On 2023-04-22 12:00, bent fender wrote:
Fri, 21 Apr 2023 23:52:48 -0400 Felix Miata <> :
David C. Rankin composed on 2023-04-21 23:44 (UTC-0400):
*Some* of the issues are surely only beta issues but I sure hope that the desktop is not one of those! There seems to be a relentless push for smartphone/desktop commonality. The entire circus reminds me of where cars were at the turn of the previous century. There were far too many models with far too many weird features and the les tecnically inclined had to learn how to hand-crank and change tires in the mud or stay clear. Eventually it was the users who decided what went and what stayed on the shelf, not the designers whose role it is to present options. The future gets steered by the users, so if you're smart you ask them. The desktop will no more be equivalent to the smartphone than a cooupe or SUV will ever be equivalent to a Harley. It would be wise to remember that. So someone in the know please tell me, is this puke desktop hard-wired into Leap now? I don't like wasting my time.
I don't see anything strange in XFCE desktop, or gnome classic. They are the same as in 15.4. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Sat, 22 Apr 2023 13:50:58 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> :
On 2023-04-22 12:00, bent fender wrote:
Fri, 21 Apr 2023 23:52:48 -0400 Felix Miata <> :
David C. Rankin composed on 2023-04-21 23:44 (UTC-0400):
*Some* of the issues are surely only beta issues but I sure hope that the desktop is not one of those! There seems to be a relentless push for smartphone/desktop commonality. The entire circus reminds me of where cars were at the turn of the previous century. There were far too many models with far too many weird features and the les tecnically inclined had to learn how to hand-crank and change tires in the mud or stay clear. Eventually it was the users who decided what went and what stayed on the shelf, not the designers whose role it is to present options. The future gets steered by the users, so if you're smart you ask them. The desktop will no more be equivalent to the smartphone than a cooupe or SUV will ever be equivalent to a Harley. It would be wise to remember that. So someone in the know please tell me, is this puke desktop hard-wired into Leap now? I don't like wasting my time.
I don't see anything strange in XFCE desktop, or gnome classic. They are the same as in 15.4.
Haven't tried XFCE with suse, I use that on other distros. I installed 15.5 with KDE, unless I misclicked; does gnome have 'Activities' too? And now that you bring it up, how do I switch seeing that the pre-login desktop selection is absent too?
On 2023-04-22 17:09, bent fender wrote:
Sat, 22 Apr 2023 13:50:58 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> :
On 2023-04-22 12:00, bent fender wrote:
Fri, 21 Apr 2023 23:52:48 -0400 Felix Miata <> :
David C. Rankin composed on 2023-04-21 23:44 (UTC-0400):
*Some* of the issues are surely only beta issues but I sure hope that the desktop is not one of those! There seems to be a relentless push for smartphone/desktop commonality. The entire circus reminds me of where cars were at the turn of the previous century. There were far too many models with far too many weird features and the les tecnically inclined had to learn how to hand-crank and change tires in the mud or stay clear. Eventually it was the users who decided what went and what stayed on the shelf, not the designers whose role it is to present options. The future gets steered by the users, so if you're smart you ask them. The desktop will no more be equivalent to the smartphone than a cooupe or SUV will ever be equivalent to a Harley. It would be wise to remember that. So someone in the know please tell me, is this puke desktop hard-wired into Leap now? I don't like wasting my time.
I don't see anything strange in XFCE desktop, or gnome classic. They are the same as in 15.4.
Haven't tried XFCE with suse, I use that on other distros. I installed 15.5 with KDE, unless I misclicked; does gnome have 'Activities' too?
Sorry, I'm not sure what that is, but I guess it is one reason I don't use Plasma. Too many changes from classicism. Like someone said elsewhere, people get trained on using a computer, and next year they change it all for the sake of changing it anew, and all the training is nullified. At least Gnome has a classic version. But who knows, Leap gets very old versions, while KDE is free roaming (meaning, gnome comes from SLE and KDE from the community).
And now that you bring it up, how do I switch seeing that the pre-login desktop selection is absent too?
Not absent here... But when a machine is installed with Plasma or Gnome, it gets a different login manager. This one is using "gdm". -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 4/22/23 05:00, bent fender wrote:
*Some* of the issues are surely only beta issues but I sure hope that the desktop is not one of those! There seems to be a relentless push for smartphone/desktop commonality.
That's the beauty. KDE3 still looks like a real desktop. Unmatched human-factors incorporating smart keyboard-shortcuts to minimize the repositioning of the hand grabbing for a mouse, real screen real-estate maximization with sane spacings for lines, icons, etc.. I've even got dark themes working swimmingly, e.g. https://paste.opensuse.org/pastes/260123a27a97 (good for 2-weeks) (focused window title is gold - not shown due to mouse over kicker so it is shown in screenshot) I've tried every desktop from blackbox to wmII (including weird ones like sawfish, etc...) and for shear raw efficiency, usability, and just brilliant integrated suite of apps design, nothing beats KDE3. The tight integration surrounding a single toolkit is what was lost when ports to Qt4 begin (we all remember openSUSE 11.0 with KDE 4.04.a, and the problems has continued though plasma. It's a lesson all desktop developers end up learning the hard way. You can't port yourself to a better integrated desktop -- it's something that has to be built from the ground up. (and as Gnome has learned, you can't bastardize the toolkit your built on and hope to build back better, and you can't break themes with every minor version release of the toolkit and not lose theme developers - until what you put out looks like vanilla milk-toast for a smart phone with icon spacing you can't control.... My $0.02) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 2023-04-22 12:09:11 David C. Rankin wrote:
On 4/22/23 05:00, bent fender wrote:
*Some* of the issues are surely only beta issues but I sure hope that the desktop is not one of those! There seems to be a relentless push for smartphone/desktop commonality.
That's the beauty. KDE3 still looks like a real desktop. Unmatched human-factors incorporating smart keyboard-shortcuts to minimize the repositioning of the hand grabbing for a mouse, real screen real-estate maximization with sane spacings for lines, icons, etc.. I've even got dark themes working swimmingly, e.g.
https://paste.opensuse.org/pastes/260123a27a97 (good for 2-weeks)
(focused window title is gold - not shown due to mouse over kicker so it is shown in screenshot)
Ooo! Is your dark theme a hand-written custom one, or is it packaged somewhere? Leslie -- Platform: GNU/Linux Hardware: x86_64 Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.4 Desktop Environment: Trinity Qt: 3.5.0 TDE: R14.0.13 tde-config: 1.0
On 4/24/23 22:17, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
https://paste.opensuse.org/pastes/260123a27a97 (good for 2-weeks)
(focused window title is gold - not shown due to mouse over kicker so it is shown in screenshot) Ooo! Is your dark theme a hand-written custom one, or is it packaged somewhere?
Leslie
It's hand written, but I also created the ksplash and kdm themes that go with it. The key is all of the differing themed areas, app background, menus, konqueror embedded viewer (katepart), the themes for kate/kwrite, etc.. all have to be done. The bulk is captured in the kde3 theme and in the kdeglobals config file. I can zip it all up and paste it. The ksplash and kdm themes are on the deviantart site. The window decoration is the crystal windeco package and just dropping the kwincrystalrc file in config will provide the exact setup. Let me know if interested and I can put a tar file together. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 2023-04-25 09:59, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 4/24/23 22:17, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
https://paste.opensuse.org/pastes/260123a27a97 (good for 2-weeks)
(focused window title is gold - not shown due to mouse over kicker so it is shown in screenshot) Ooo! Is your dark theme a hand-written custom one, or is it packaged somewhere?
Leslie
It's hand written, but I also created the ksplash and kdm themes that go with it. The key is all of the differing themed areas, app background, menus, konqueror embedded viewer (katepart), the themes for kate/kwrite, etc.. all have to be done. The bulk is captured in the kde3 theme and in the kdeglobals config file.
I can zip it all up and paste it. The ksplash and kdm themes are on the deviantart site.
The window decoration is the crystal windeco package and just dropping the kwincrystalrc file in config will provide the exact setup.
Let me know if interested and I can put a tar file together.
It does look nice and easy to read. I typically don't like dark themes because they are harder to read. Congrats. But I don't use kde3, so not useful to me. Just read a rant somewhere this week, that theme designers for Gnome had mostly quit in disgust, because devs change things on each version making their themes not to work. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 4/25/23 03:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:
It does look nice and easy to read. I typically don't like dark themes because they are harder to read. Congrats.
But I don't use kde3, so not useful to me.
I found, that especially for saving my eyes looking at a screen for long hours, a dark theme really helps take the eye-strain away. So much so that when I click on a light colored site in firefox, etc.., it's blinding. The key whether light or dark theme is adequate contrast. To make that work with a dark theme, you need to desaturate the color. Greatly enhances dark theme contrast. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
There I done it again, Sylpheed 'reply' sends by default to the email address and not to the user list. Tue, 25 Apr 2023 18:38:42 -0500 "David C. Rankin" <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> :
On 4/25/23 03:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:
It does look nice and easy to read. I typically don't like dark themes because they are harder to read. Congrats.
But I don't use kde3, so not useful to me.
I found, that especially for saving my eyes looking at a screen for long hours, a dark theme really helps take the eye-strain away.
Unless you're in a sunlit room. I have come to the conclusion that grass green is easiest on the eyes, for some it's seaghost blue-gray or the lighter sky-blue.
So much so that when I click on a light colored site in firefox, etc.., it's blinding.
The key whether light or dark theme is adequate contrast. To make that work with a dark theme, you need to desaturate the color. Greatly enhances dark theme contrast.
Yes, and also to never make almost everything pitch black and everything else gray, I mean like window borders you can't grab because they're the same black as the background (I saw one default setup like that).
On 2023-04-25 02:59:10 David C. Rankin wrote:
On 4/24/23 22:17, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
https://paste.opensuse.org/pastes/260123a27a97 (good for 2-weeks)
(focused window title is gold - not shown due to mouse over kicker so it is shown in screenshot)
Ooo! Is your dark theme a hand-written custom one, or is it packaged somewhere?
Leslie
It's hand written, but I also created the ksplash and kdm themes that go with it. The key is all of the differing themed areas, app background, menus, konqueror embedded viewer (katepart), the themes for kate/kwrite, etc.. all have to be done. The bulk is captured in the kde3 theme and in the kdeglobals config file.
I can zip it all up and paste it. The ksplash and kdm themes are on the deviantart site.
The window decoration is the crystal windeco package and just dropping the kwincrystalrc file in config will provide the exact setup.
Let me know if interested and I can put a tar file together.
I am, very much. My eyes don't work so very well anymore with bright screens. Leslie -- Platform: GNU/Linux Hardware: x86_64 Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.4 Desktop Environment: Trinity Qt: 3.5.0 TDE: R14.0.13 tde-config: 1.0
On 4/25/23 03:31, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
I am, very much. My eyes don't work so very well anymore with bright screens.
All zip it all up and provide a link for download. I'll include the necessary ~/.kde/share/config files in a tar archive making "$HOME" the base directory in the archive, so you can just tar -xJf theconfigs.tar.xz from the $HOME of the new user. You can install the ksplash and kdm themes through kcontrol (make a backup of the original /opt/kde3/share/config/kdm/kdmrc to preserve the comments) IIRC using the kcontol/Admin kdmtheme rewrite kdmrc without any comments. E.g. # cp /opt/kde3/share/config/kdm/kdmrc /opt/kde3/share/config/kdm/kdmrc-orig I'll have it done within a day. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 4/25/23 03:31, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
I am, very much. My eyes don't work so very well anymore with bright screens.
I think I have all the pieces put together. The only issue my be my firewall. If you cannot get to the files, send me you IP in a private message and I'll put a hole in the firewall for you. All of the file are under https://www.3111skyline.com/dl/kde3/ Download the Readme-kde3-dark-theme-config.txt file which contains a walk-through on configuring the theme(s). (download the file and read it in an editor, viewing online the line-drawing characters from tree are gibberish. I recommend the system-wide install for the icons, kdm-theme and ksplash themes so they are available to all users -- but you can install on a per-user basis through kcontrol. Packages you need from the KDE3 repo: kde3-kwinstyle-crystal-1.0.7-lp154.5.1.x86_64 The Oxygen-Refit-Black icons are under the icons directory, the extra directory contains: The extra directory contains the user-installable kdm themes, ksplash themes, kicker background .png and the 15.3 (last version) of the desktop-data rpm that provide traditional XDG menu categories. extra ├── kdm ├── kicker ├── ksplash ├── rpm └── systemd The system-wide drop-ins for the kdm and kspash themes are under the opt directory and include a kdmrc configured to load the kdedigits kdm theme. The kde3-user-config.tar.xz archive contains the ~/.kde/share/{apps,config} files for the dark theme and colors and the kwincrystalrc config for the crystal window decorations. The Readme files lists the contents. You will may need to select the theme BlueSlateNight (or BlueSlateBlack154) and the ksplash and icons in kcontol after you unzip the archive. I'd create a new testuser to configure to see how it all goes -- that way you can nuke it all if you decide not to keep it. Let me know if the firewall has you blocked and we will open it up or find another way to get you the files. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 4/21/23 22:52, Felix Miata wrote:
(been that way for years now :) I don't care about the logging. I care about the disappearance of system sounds until logging out and back in. It only takes as little as one day before the crash and disappearance occur. ATM @37 hours up it's still working in the current session, so it's due again any time. :(
Oh, That is a problem. I've not seen a loss of sound. I have my normal sounds for shade/unshade, minimize/restore, and the rest of my sound theme -- they always work. If I had to guess, I bet you have pulse-audio installed as well. I don't. I can see the jack issue causing problems if pulse is looking for various available sockets, etc... I just have ALSA installed -- so on my system, the jack issue is just a log annoyance. How/what do you have configured for sound? I have nothing but the stock KDE3 sound installed. I've been tempted to install pulse using "The Perfect Setup" page so sound in discord works, but if that is likely to bring on the issue you describe -- may better I don't. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1047852 David C. Rankin composed on 2023-04-22 11:40 (UTC-0500):
Felix Miata wrote:
I don't care about the logging. I care about the disappearance of system sounds until logging out and back in. It only takes as little as one day before the crash and disappearance occur. ATM @37 hours up it's still working in the current session, so it's due again any time. :(
That is a problem. I've not seen a loss of sound. I have my normal sounds for shade/unshade, minimize/restore, and the rest of my sound theme -- they always work.
If I had to guess, I bet you have pulse-audio installed as well. I don't. I can see the jack issue causing problems if pulse is looking for various available sockets, etc... I just have ALSA installed -- so on my system, the jack issue is just a log annoyance.
ISTR alsa/jack are insufficient for playing web audio since many many moons ago. I need web audio more than desktop sounds.
How/what do you have configured for sound? I have nothing but the stock KDE3 sound installed. I've been tempted to install pulse using "The Perfect Setup" page so sound in discord works, but if that is likely to bring on the issue you describe -- may better I don't.
What is this "perfect setup" page? I can't make sense of audio configuration. It's a zillion piece jigsaw puzzle made from a single shade of gray. If I was to make a change now, it would be replacing pulseaudio with pipewire-pulseaudio. Some of my test installations work that way, but none ever get remotely enough uptime to try to reproduce. https://paste.opensuse.org/c14dc7531723 https://paste.opensuse.org/b05bd0e1957b
inxi -Aaz --vs inxi 3.3.26-00 (2023-03-28) Audio: Device-1: Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD Audio vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:03.0 chip-ID: 8086:0c0c class-ID: 0403 Device-2: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series High Definition Audio vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 chip-ID: 8086:8c20 class-ID: 0403 API: ALSA v: k5.14.21-150400.24.55-default status: kernel-api with: 1: aoss type: oss-emulator 2: apulse type: pulse-emulator tools: alsamixer,amixer Server-1: PipeWire v: 0.3.49 status: off with: wireplumber status: off tools: pw-cat,pw-cli,wpctl Server-2: PulseAudio v: 15.0 status: active tools: pacat,pactl,pavucontrol systemctl --user status alsasound.{service,socket} Unit alsasound.service could not be found. Unit alsasound.socket could not be found. systemctl --user status alsa-state.{service,socket} Unit alsa-state.service could not be found. Unit alsa-state.socket could not be found. systemctl --user status alsa-restore.{service,socket} Unit alsa-restore.service could not be found. Unit alsa-restore.socket could not be found. systemctl --user status pipewire.{service,socket} ○ pipewire.service - PipeWire Multimedia Service Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/pipewire.service; disabled; vendor preset: disabled) Active: inactive (dead) TriggeredBy: ● pipewire.socket
● pipewire.socket - PipeWire Multimedia System Socket Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/pipewire.socket; enabled; vendor preset: enabled) Active: active (listening) since Thu 2023-04-20 09:58:16 EDT; 2 days ago Triggers: ● pipewire.service Listen: /run/user/1050/pipewire-0 (Stream) CGroup: /user.slice/user-1050.slice/user@1050.service/app.slice/pipewire.socket Apr 20 09:58:16 00srv systemd[1067]: Listening on PipeWire Multimedia System Socket.
systemctl --user status pulseaudio.{service,socket} ● pulseaudio.service - Sound Service Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudio.service; disabled; vendor preset: disabled) Active: active (running) since Thu 2023-04-20 09:58:21 EDT; 2 days ago TriggeredBy: ● pulseaudio.socket Main PID: 1258 (pulseaudio) CGroup: /user.slice/user-1050.slice/user@1050.service/session.slice/pulseaudio.service └─ 1258 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --daemonize=no --log-target=journal
Apr 20 09:58:21 systemd[1067]: Starting Sound Service... Apr 20 09:58:21 systemd[1067]: Started Sound Service. Apr 20 09:58:21 pulseaudio[1258]: No protocol specified Apr 20 09:58:21 pulseaudio[1258]: No protocol specified Apr 20 09:58:21 pulseaudio[1258]: XOpenDisplay() failed Apr 20 09:58:21 pulseaudio[1258]: Failed to load module "module-x11-publish" (argument: "display=:0 xauthority="): initialization failed. ● pulseaudio.socket - Sound System Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudio.socket; enabled; vendor preset: enabled) Active: active (running) since Thu 2023-04-20 09:58:16 EDT; 2 days ago Triggers: ● pulseaudio.service Listen: /run/user/1050/pulse/native (Stream) CGroup: /user.slice/user-1050.slice/user@1050.service/app.slice/pulseaudio.socket Apr 20 09:58:16 systemd[1067]: Listening on Sound System.
systemctl --user status wireplumber ○ wireplumber.service - Multimedia Service Session Manager Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/wireplumber.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled) Active: inactive (dead) # systemctl status alsasound.{service,socket} Unit alsasound.socket could not be found. ● alsa-restore.service - Save/Restore Sound Card State Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/alsa-restore.service; static) Active: active (exited) since Thu 2023-04-20 09:57:58 EDT; 2 days ago Process: 772 ExecStart=/usr/sbin/alsactl restore (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Main PID: 772 (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
Apr 20 09:57:58 systemd[1]: Starting Save/Restore Sound Card State... Apr 20 09:57:58 systemd[1]: Finished Save/Restore Sound Card State. # systemctl status alsa-state.{service,socket} Unit alsa-state.socket could not be found. ○ alsa-state.service - Manage Sound Card State (restore and store) Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/alsa-state.service; static) Active: inactive (dead) Condition: start condition failed at Thu 2023-04-20 09:57:58 EDT; 2 days ago └─ ConditionPathExists=/etc/alsa/state-daemon.conf was not met Apr 20 09:57:58 systemd[1]: Condition check resulted in Manage Sound Card State (restore and store) being skipped. # systemctl status alsa-restore.{service,socket} Unit alsa-restore.socket could not be found. ● alsa-restore.service - Save/Restore Sound Card State Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/alsa-restore.service; static) Active: active (exited) since Thu 2023-04-20 09:57:58 EDT; 2 days ago Process: 772 ExecStart=/usr/sbin/alsactl restore (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Main PID: 772 (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Apr 20 09:57:58 systemd[1]: Starting Save/Restore Sound Card State... Apr 20 09:57:58 systemd[1]: Finished Save/Restore Sound Card State. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 23:35:22 -0400 Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1047852
David C. Rankin composed on 2023-04-22 11:40 (UTC-0500):
Felix Miata wrote:
I don't care about the logging. I care about the disappearance of system sounds until logging out and back in. It only takes as little as one day before the crash and disappearance occur. ATM @37 hours up it's still working in the current session, so it's due again any time. :(
That is a problem. I've not seen a loss of sound. I have my normal sounds for shade/unshade, minimize/restore, and the rest of my sound theme -- they always work.
If I had to guess, I bet you have pulse-audio installed as well. I don't. I can see the jack issue causing problems if pulse is looking for various available sockets, etc... I just have ALSA installed -- so on my system, the jack issue is just a log annoyance.
ISTR alsa/jack are insufficient for playing web audio since many many moons ago. I need web audio more than desktop sounds.
FWIW if you mean that FF will only work with pulse loaded and you don't [want to] have it, then I've found that running: $ apulse firefox <whatever> does allow a modern FF to play sound without pulse.
On 4/22/23 22:35, Felix Miata wrote:
What is this "perfect setup" page?
PerfectSetup - Freedesktop.org https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User/Perf...
I can't make sense of audio configuration. It's a zillion piece jigsaw puzzle made from a single shade of gray. If I was to make a change now, it would be replacing pulseaudio with pipewire-pulseaudio. Some of my test installations work that way, but none ever get remotely enough uptime to try to reproduce.
https://paste.opensuse.org/c14dc7531723 https://paste.opensuse.org/b05bd0e1957b
inxi -Aaz --vs inxi 3.3.26-00 (2023-03-28) Audio: Device-1: Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD Audio vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:03.0 chip-ID: 8086:0c0c class-ID: 0403 Device-2: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series High Definition Audio vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 chip-ID: 8086:8c20 class-ID: 0403 API: ALSA v: k5.14.21-150400.24.55-default status: kernel-api with: 1: aoss type: oss-emulator 2: apulse type: pulse-emulator tools: alsamixer,amixer Server-1: PipeWire v: 0.3.49 status: off with: wireplumber status: off tools: pw-cat,pw-cli,wpctl Server-2: PulseAudio v: 15.0 status: active tools: pacat,pactl,pavucontrol systemctl --user status alsasound.{service,socket} Unit alsasound.service could not be found. Unit alsasound.socket could not be found. systemctl --user status alsa-state.{service,socket} Unit alsa-state.service could not be found. Unit alsa-state.socket could not be found. systemctl --user status alsa-restore.{service,socket} Unit alsa-restore.service could not be found. Unit alsa-restore.socket could not be found. systemctl --user status pipewire.{service,socket} ○ pipewire.service - PipeWire Multimedia Service Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/pipewire.service; disabled; vendor preset: disabled) Active: inactive (dead) TriggeredBy: ● pipewire.socket
● pipewire.socket - PipeWire Multimedia System Socket Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/pipewire.socket; enabled; vendor preset: enabled) Active: active (listening) since Thu 2023-04-20 09:58:16 EDT; 2 days ago Triggers: ● pipewire.service Listen: /run/user/1050/pipewire-0 (Stream) CGroup: /user.slice/user-1050.slice/user@1050.service/app.slice/pipewire.socket
Apr 20 09:58:16 00srv systemd[1067]: Listening on PipeWire Multimedia System Socket.
systemctl --user status pulseaudio.{service,socket} ● pulseaudio.service - Sound Service Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudio.service; disabled; vendor preset: disabled) Active: active (running) since Thu 2023-04-20 09:58:21 EDT; 2 days ago TriggeredBy: ● pulseaudio.socket Main PID: 1258 (pulseaudio) CGroup: /user.slice/user-1050.slice/user@1050.service/session.slice/pulseaudio.service └─ 1258 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --daemonize=no --log-target=journal
Apr 20 09:58:21 systemd[1067]: Starting Sound Service... Apr 20 09:58:21 systemd[1067]: Started Sound Service. Apr 20 09:58:21 pulseaudio[1258]: No protocol specified Apr 20 09:58:21 pulseaudio[1258]: No protocol specified Apr 20 09:58:21 pulseaudio[1258]: XOpenDisplay() failed Apr 20 09:58:21 pulseaudio[1258]: Failed to load module "module-x11-publish" (argument: "display=:0 xauthority="): initialization failed.
● pulseaudio.socket - Sound System Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudio.socket; enabled; vendor preset: enabled) Active: active (running) since Thu 2023-04-20 09:58:16 EDT; 2 days ago Triggers: ● pulseaudio.service Listen: /run/user/1050/pulse/native (Stream) CGroup: /user.slice/user-1050.slice/user@1050.service/app.slice/pulseaudio.socket
Apr 20 09:58:16 systemd[1067]: Listening on Sound System.
systemctl --user status wireplumber ○ wireplumber.service - Multimedia Service Session Manager Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/wireplumber.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled) Active: inactive (dead) # systemctl status alsasound.{service,socket} Unit alsasound.socket could not be found. ● alsa-restore.service - Save/Restore Sound Card State Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/alsa-restore.service; static) Active: active (exited) since Thu 2023-04-20 09:57:58 EDT; 2 days ago Process: 772 ExecStart=/usr/sbin/alsactl restore (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Main PID: 772 (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
Apr 20 09:57:58 systemd[1]: Starting Save/Restore Sound Card State... Apr 20 09:57:58 systemd[1]: Finished Save/Restore Sound Card State. # systemctl status alsa-state.{service,socket} Unit alsa-state.socket could not be found. ○ alsa-state.service - Manage Sound Card State (restore and store) Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/alsa-state.service; static) Active: inactive (dead) Condition: start condition failed at Thu 2023-04-20 09:57:58 EDT; 2 days ago └─ ConditionPathExists=/etc/alsa/state-daemon.conf was not met
Apr 20 09:57:58 systemd[1]: Condition check resulted in Manage Sound Card State (restore and store) being skipped. # systemctl status alsa-restore.{service,socket} Unit alsa-restore.socket could not be found. ● alsa-restore.service - Save/Restore Sound Card State Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/alsa-restore.service; static) Active: active (exited) since Thu 2023-04-20 09:57:58 EDT; 2 days ago Process: 772 ExecStart=/usr/sbin/alsactl restore (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Main PID: 772 (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
Apr 20 09:57:58 systemd[1]: Starting Save/Restore Sound Card State... Apr 20 09:57:58 systemd[1]: Finished Save/Restore Sound Card State.
Unfortunately sound setup is something I just have to sit with a howto -- like the perfect setup, the arch-wiki, etc. and work through it. It has always been a bit like Voodoo. Say a few incantations and pray the sound gods smile on you.... -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
Sorry if this is a bit unthreaded, I've since deleted the earlier messages in this thread. I was being launched into GNOME, which I figured was a totally unacceptable direction for KDE to take. KDE as well as XFCE were also installed and I had selected a KDE desktop but went direct into GNOME regardless and there was NO desktop selection with the log-in. So, reinstalled the beta but this time without GNOME (just in case) and with a boot to init 3 only. Everything is cool, I will stay with an init 3 boot from now on.
On 4/23/23 13:50, bent fender wrote:
Sorry if this is a bit unthreaded, I've since deleted the earlier messages in this thread.
I was being launched into GNOME, which I figured was a totally unacceptable direction for KDE to take. KDE as well as XFCE were also installed and I had selected a KDE desktop but went direct into GNOME regardless and there was NO desktop selection with the log-in.
So, reinstalled the beta but this time without GNOME (just in case) and with a boot to init 3 only. Everything is cool, I will stay with an init 3 boot from now on.
Un..fortunately, Display manager selection is now done by the "alternatives" scheme, for your display manager, you can set: # update-alternatives --set default-displaymanager /path/to/the/dm/you/want To see what is available: $ update-alternatives --list default-displaymanager -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
David C. Rankin composed on 2023-04-25 23:31 (UTC-0500):
bent fender wrote:
I was being launched into GNOME, which I figured was a totally unacceptable direction for KDE to take. KDE as well as XFCE were also installed and I had selected a KDE desktop but went direct into GNOME regardless and there was NO desktop selection with the log-in.
So, reinstalled the beta but this time without GNOME (just in case) and with a boot to init 3 only. Everything is cool, I will stay with an init 3 boot from now on.
Un..fortunately,
Display manager selection is now done by the "alternatives" scheme, for your display manager, you can set:
# update-alternatives --set default-displaymanager /path/to/the/dm/you/want
To see what is available:
$ update-alternatives --list default-displaymanager
Or just pick the installed one you like best: # update-alternatives --config default-displaymanager There are 3 choices for the alternative default-displaymanager (providing /usr/lib/X11/displaymanagers/default-displaymanager). Selection Path Priority Status ------------------------------------------------------------ 0 /usr/lib/X11/displaymanagers/kdm3 15 auto mode 1 /usr/lib/X11/displaymanagers/console 5 manual mode * 2 /usr/lib/X11/displaymanagers/kdm3 15 manual mode 3 /usr/lib/X11/displaymanagers/xdm 10 manual mode Press <enter> to keep the current choice[*], or type selection number: -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
On 2023-04-25 23:31:30 David C. Rankin wrote:
On 4/23/23 13:50, bent fender wrote:
Sorry if this is a bit unthreaded, I've since deleted the earlier messages in this thread.
I was being launched into GNOME, which I figured was a totally unacceptable direction for KDE to take. KDE as well as XFCE were also installed and I had selected a KDE desktop but went direct into GNOME regardless and there was NO desktop selection with the log-in.
So, reinstalled the beta but this time without GNOME (just in case) and with a boot to init 3 only. Everything is cool, I will stay with an init 3 boot from now on.
Un..fortunately,
Display manager selection is now done by the "alternatives" scheme, for your display manager, you can set:
# update-alternatives --set default-displaymanager /path/to/the/dm/you/want
To see what is available:
$ update-alternatives --list default-displaymanager
YaST2 has an Alternatives module that provides a GUI interface for this. Leslie -- Platform: GNU/Linux Hardware: x86_64 Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.4 Desktop Environment: Trinity Qt: 3.5.0 TDE: R14.0.13 tde-config: 1.0
Tue, 25 Apr 2023 23:31:30 -0500 "David C. Rankin" <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> :
On 4/23/23 13:50, bent fender wrote:
Sorry if this is a bit unthreaded, I've since deleted the earlier messages in this thread.
I was being launched into GNOME, which I figured was a totally unacceptable direction for KDE to take. KDE as well as XFCE were also installed and I had selected a KDE desktop but went direct into GNOME regardless and there was NO desktop selection with the log-in.
So, reinstalled the beta but this time without GNOME (just in case) and with a boot to init 3 only. Everything is cool, I will stay with an init 3 boot from now on.
Un..fortunately,
Display manager selection is now done by the "alternatives" scheme, for your display manager, you can set:
# update-alternatives --set default-displaymanager /path/to/the/dm/you/want
To see what is available:
$ update-alternatives --list default-displaymanager
Oh I wasn't complaining. First of all I didn't realize what desktop I was being herded into because I never use gnome (I think I saw that paging-style horror only once in my life. I nearly died seeing it and thinking that IT had become the new KDE! Remembering that I had distinctly set "KDE Desktop" during the install ritual, I reinstalled but this time avoided swampy ground by "opting" for an init 3 boot. After logging it as root I just did "systemctl isolate graphic.target" and I was done. Now I want to _stay_ in this mode because I don't like the very idea of DM's for logging-in, ideally I'd like the Slackeware approach where one logs in and then starts either some preset X or some DM whose role by then is only to start one desktop or another.
On 4/26/23 06:11, bent fender wrote:
Now I want to_stay_ in this mode because I don't like the very idea of DM's for logging-in, ideally I'd like the Slackeware approach where one logs in and then starts either some preset X or some DM whose role by then is only to start one desktop or another.
Yep, For years and years on Arch I just used startx <some desktop> to start the desktop I wanted. (fluxbox by default) Then setup lightdm and just left it. Simple, lightweight, and like all DMs provides the list of available desktops. Reasonable screen locking and blanking without x-screensaver (not sure if that's a plus) But most Arch boxes I have are servers -- so all I really cared about was the screen-blanking so the monitors turned off. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 2023-04-27 03:59, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 4/26/23 06:11, bent fender wrote:
Now I want to_stay_ in this mode because I don't like the very idea of DM's for logging-in, ideally I'd like the Slackeware approach where one logs in and then starts either some preset X or some DM whose role by then is only to start one desktop or another.
Yep,
For years and years on Arch I just used startx <some desktop> to start the desktop I wanted. (fluxbox by default) Then setup lightdm and just left it. Simple, lightweight, and like all DMs provides the list of available desktops. Reasonable screen locking and blanking without x-screensaver (not sure if that's a plus) But most Arch boxes I have are servers -- so all I really cared about was the screen-blanking so the monitors turned off.
I have my mini server, aka media server, with a screen saver that displays photos from the NASA photo of the day album, cycling every few seconds. A cronjob downloads them (or did I forget to enable it? I have a script to download a full year). The display is on the wall behind my main computer, so it is some entertainment. When I leave the room, I switch off a socket strip. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 4/27/23 09:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
When I leave the room, I switch off a socket strip.
The importance of the screen blanking was so the idiot wouldn't to turn off the monitor when I left the server closet :) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
participants (6)
-
bent fender -
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Howorth -
David C. Rankin -
Felix Miata -
J Leslie Turriff