On Sunday 17 December 2006 09:02, Erik Jakobsen wrote:

Randall R Schulz wrote:

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On Sunday 17 December 2006 05:44, Aaron Bridge wrote:

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I don't have 10.2 installed yet, so how would I check the MD5 checksum using Windows XP?

The installer steps you through an option MD5 checksum validation stage early on, so you could just boot the installation disk, tell it to do that check and then bail out after it's done. At that point, nothing has been done to the system on which it's running.

Randall Schulz

For that method I would prefer an R/W media. because if the .ISO is distorted the media is ready for the garbage collector :-)

How does that change the original question? Anyway, if that's your concern just use re-writeable media to burn the CD or DVD. But since optical media is pretty cheap and the likelihood of a problem is pretty low, why bother?

... Erik Jakobsen

Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2006-12-17 at 09:19 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote:

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For that method I would prefer an R/W media. because if the .ISO is distorted the media is ready for the garbage collector :-)

How does that change the original question?

Because the md5sum of the image can (and should) be checked before burning it :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFhYCHtTMYHG2NR9URAsBDAKCCSFiVt739JKYrHpj8KXYutfCxRACeKv5s JVqpEMOpyiFdkiluCafLbrY= =UW5u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2006-12-17 at 09:58 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote:

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Because the md5sum of the image can (and should) be checked before burning it :-)

Well, I think there's much greater likelihood of an error occurring during the recording of the optical media than during the file retrieval, since there's abundant error detection in the Internet protocols.

Maybe so, but nevertheless, my downloaded image was in error. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFhbM+tTMYHG2NR9URAmfCAJ9R3O2K9wDUteLNZipUlmjXUN/gUgCeKhSZ lNALeyCpYyd/GfLRIlHsX3k= =54C/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2006-12-17 at 15:19 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote:

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Maybe so, but nevertheless, my downloaded image was in error.

Well, there's no accounting for software errors and their failure to detect hardware errors or other software errors...

Incidentally, what software did you use to perform the retrieval? I don't think I've ever gotten corrupt ISO images using Azureus.

aria2c, a metalink client, which uses ftp and http protocols to download from different servers. Azureus is a bittorrent client, and that protocols is capable of error checking and correction: you should never see an md5sum error with that one (and if you get them, there is a bug in the client, IMO). But, AFAIK, both ftp and http downloads do not have error checking nor correction capabilities, other than what tcp has.

Nonetheless, there is a subsequent chance for error (when writing the optical media), and since you must check after that last point at which errors may be introduced, it's not clear there's much advantage to doing so earlier. Sure, you can save the cost of one piece of R/O media, but if you use R/W media, then it's a wash--you might as well wait till the final stage before verifying. Then you only have to do it once.

Burning takes some time, the dvd media has a cost - even if it is relatively cheap -, and I hate to make more coasters, I already have too many of them. Further, the writer unit wears down, the lenses are made of some kind of plastic which ends by deforming and inutilizes the unit. And finally, I would hate to reboot the computer with the newwwwww dvd, and then learn I got a new coaster. I prefer to know where I stand as soon as possible. [The "newwwwww" above is the consequence of the non existent keyboard repeat bug, not me - just for the record :-) ] - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFherQtTMYHG2NR9URAi10AJ4/2I4aS+1WRxr7xiW8rPgcACwIhQCfQ9Pr lr4Xf2s0wOlRAaW2DraGwco= =CRWw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2006-12-17 at 18:17 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote:

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aria2c, a metalink client, which uses ftp and http protocols to download from different servers.

Maybe using immature protocols and clients is not worth any savings it seems to offer?

I wanted to try it. And my failure (dis)proved a point and motivated a debate and improvements.

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Azureus is a bittorrent client, ...

Yeah, I know that...

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But, AFAIK, both ftp and http downloads do not have error checking nor correction capabilities, other than what tcp has.

Which is significant. It's very unlikely that undetected packet corruption will pass the TCP checksumming.

Sometimes it happens, specially when the download is interrupted and continued later, and the file is large. Ftp has been known to fail. The rpm package contains checksum (and recently, gpg signatures), for instance: they would not have implemented checksums if they thought download methods were fulltrusty.

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Burning takes some time, the dvd media has a cost - even if it is relatively cheap -, and I hate to make more coasters, I already have too many of them. Further, the writer unit wears down, the lenses are made of some kind of plastic which ends by deforming and inutilizes the unit.

Again. Use R/W (i.e., rewritable) media. The best of both worlds.

It is way more expensive, and the units I have burn at 2x o 4x only. Furthermore, they fail: currently I can't reliably burn R/W dvd; I haven't investigated it much. Anyway, burning and checking normal media takes somewhat less than an hour in my system. Only burning a R/W takes an hour at least, plus the checking. If the result is bad, then I have to check the image, then redownload if it was bad... that's an hour lost.

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And finally, I would hate to reboot the computer with the newwwwww dvd, and then learn I got a new coaster. I prefer to know where I stand as soon as possible.

There's no need to reboot. YaST can verify the checksum of new release media.

Remember that the OP was using windows to burn the original image, he may not have a linux running yet. Or it may be another distro, no yast. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFhgKetTMYHG2NR9URAqKeAJ9HlrwTeQjXt1Blp29QYWp85zw0oACfQ5hi tymPIDOGagWc7irwZcATTLo= =BUqN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2006-12-17 at 19:04 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote:

On Sunday 17 December 2006 18:53, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Remember that the OP was using windows to burn the original image, he may not have a linux running yet. Or it may be another distro, no yast.

That's not what he said, though perhaps it's not entirely clear. He said he only had recourse to Windows for verifying the disc.

My crystal ball completes the gaps :-p - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFho4AtTMYHG2NR9URAuk1AJ9CmLllUzYWWM5xvxJUPnDZ9l47PgCgi3i/ 0aPUK5sWf+P2cZVkaTeAyX0= =JsXs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2006-12-17 at 19:11 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote:

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Sometimes it happens, specially when the download is interrupted and continued later, and the file is large. Ftp has been known to fail. ...

Well, once failures occur, all bets are off when it comes to protocols such as HTTP and FTP. That's why you're better off using Azureus, which is highly failure-tolerant.

I know. But slower, too (by half at least, in my case). And as I know of an easy way to repair a bad download, having download errors is no longer so important, once I know there are errors.

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Burning takes some time, the dvd media has a cost - even if it is relatively cheap -, and I hate to make more coasters, I already have too many of them. Further, the writer unit wears down, the lenses are made of some kind of plastic which ends by deforming and inutilizes the unit.

Again. Use R/W (i.e., rewritable) media. The best of both worlds.

It is way more expensive, and the units I have burn at 2x o 4x only. Furthermore, they fail: currently I can't reliably burn R/W dvd; I haven't investigated it much.

More expensive? You only need one disc for any number of attempts, including the progression of releases associated with the alpha .. beta .. RC sequence.

I reserve my only two R/W media for occasions that really need them. As I said, they burn very slowly (2x) and they have limited burn cycles. One of them does no longer work, or my new drive unit can't handle it, I don't know. In any case, I can't burn it. Also, I want a permanent copy of the DVD, not temporary.

...

Anyway, burning and checking normal media takes somewhat less than an hour in my system. Only burning a R/W takes an hour at least, plus the checking. If the result is bad, then I have to check the image, then redownload if it was bad... that's an hour lost.

Yes, but as I said, you have to verify the disc anyway. I still think the optimum approach is to use the most reliable (overall) protocol, BitTorrent. Then burn and verify the disc, but don't bother verifying the download, which you've every reason to believe is intact, since you used an extremely redundant and resilient protocol (BitTorrent). Only verify the final result, the disc.

In terms of time spent, it is faster for me to check the download md5sum first, than burn and later check.

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There's no need to reboot. YaST can verify the checksum of new release media.

Remember that the OP was using windows to burn the original image, he may not have a linux running yet. Or it may be another distro, no yast.

True, but I'm responding to your point that rebooting was a tedious means of verifying a disc. It's not necessary for you, 'cause you're already in the enlightened SuSE Linux camp! You are running SuSE Linux, aren't you??

Yes, but I also have me reasons to check first (cheaper and faster) :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFhodZtTMYHG2NR9URAqABAJ4+kQw/ij0eK2/VXzkHJIt1leYSigCfdpQX UwKDsaZSol6dy519AiIFEIE= =a5LW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2006-12-17 11:19, Randall R Schulz wrote:

Anyway, if that's your concern just use re-writeable media to burn the CD or DVD. But since optical media is pretty cheap and the likelihood of a problem is pretty low, why bother? Check out the prices at bestbuy.ca -- there is a fee collected by a consortium run by the recording industry that pretty much doubles the price of blank media in Canada. We are led to believe (like the Queen of Hearts, I am capable of believing impossible things ;-) ) that the fee goes to the artists who actually created the music.

-- The best way to accelerate a computer running Windows is at 9.81 m/s² -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 17 December 2006 12:18, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

On 2006-12-17 11:19, Randall R Schulz wrote:

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Anyway, if that's your concern just use re-writeable media to burn the CD or DVD. But since optical media is pretty cheap and the likelihood of a problem is pretty low, why bother?

Check out the prices at bestbuy.ca -- there is a fee collected by a consortium run by the recording industry that pretty much doubles the price of blank media in Canada. We are led to believe (like the Queen of Hearts, I am capable of believing impossible things ;-) ) that the fee goes to the artists who actually created the music.

But at least a Canadian Court has ruled that music copying and/or swapping is legal because of this fee if I am not mistaken. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On 2006-12-17 21:11, John Andersen wrote:

But at least a Canadian Court has ruled that music copying and/or swapping is legal because of this fee if I am not mistaken.

I don't think the fee had anything to do with that ruling. IIRC, it was solely because copyright legislation here is so antiquated and rigidly worded that online swapping cannot possibly be read into any of it. It would still be illegal for me to copy a CD and give it to you in person. -- The best way to accelerate a computer running Windows is at 9.81 m/s² -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 17 December 2006 06:44, Aaron Bridge wrote:

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I don't have 10.2 installed yet, so how would I check the MD5 checksum using Windows XP?

here is something i put on every windows computer i work with, i cant live without it! http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/ cheers, jonathan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stelian, On Tuesday 19 December 2006 04:43, Stelian Iancu wrote:

On Monday 18 December 2006 17:34, Jonathan Horne wrote:

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On Sunday 17 December 2006 06:44, Aaron Bridge wrote:

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I don't have 10.2 installed yet, so how would I check the MD5 checksum using Windows XP?

here is something i put on every windows computer i work with, i cant live without it!

http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/

Wow! Thanks! I didn't know about this project! You just made my day! :-)

Should that prove insufficient, the next step is the outstanding but much larger Cygwin project. It provides a comprehensive set of Gnu tools and a full POSIX programming environment under Windows. It's always one of the very first things I install on a new Windows installations (or one that is new to me and that I must use for real work of any sort). <http://cygwin.com/> There's even an XFree86 server for Cygwin: <http://xfree86.cygwin.com/>

S.

Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz wrote:

There's even an XFree86 server for Cygwin:

<http://xfree86.cygwin.com/>

I find Xming works better. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rolf-Dieter Damm wrote:

Hi Aaron, maybe MD5summer is something that meet your needs? http://www.wintotal.de/softw/?id=695 I know this thread is old by now but I just want to thank you for this post. I am currently having trouble installing trouble installing SuSE 10.2 because of a CD read problem. I have been searching for previous posts related to this issue. I am already familiar with MD5 and I used the dos version to check the isos that I downloaded. This is the first graphical one I have seen and I think it is the best I have seen. It reads the MD5 text file to get the sums to compare so I don't have to visually compare two big strings.

Damon Register -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 17 December 2006 09:02, Erik Jakobsen wrote:

Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

On Sunday 17 December 2006 05:44, Aaron Bridge wrote:

...

I don't have 10.2 installed yet, so how would I check the MD5 checksum using Windows XP?

The installer steps you through an option MD5 checksum validation stage early on, so you could just boot the installation disk, tell it to do that check and then bail out after it's done. At that point, nothing has been done to the system on which it's running.

Randall Schulz

For that method I would prefer an R/W media. because if the .ISO is distorted the media is ready for the garbage collector :-)

How does that change the original question? Anyway, if that's your concern just use re-writeable media to burn the CD or DVD. But since optical media is pretty cheap and the likelihood of a problem is pretty low, why bother?

... Erik Jakobsen

Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2006-12-17 at 09:19 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote:

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For that method I would prefer an R/W media. because if the .ISO is distorted the media is ready for the garbage collector :-)

How does that change the original question?

Because the md5sum of the image can (and should) be checked before burning it :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFhYCHtTMYHG2NR9URAsBDAKCCSFiVt739JKYrHpj8KXYutfCxRACeKv5s JVqpEMOpyiFdkiluCafLbrY= =UW5u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org