On Sunday 18 January 2009 08:03:20 Ciro Iriarte wrote:

If you'll be running just linux, the paravirtual performance from Xen can't be beated by VMware, VirtualBox is nice for testing, but not for production, because the VMs die when you close the application.

I'm intrigued with the idea of Xen, but haven't been able to make it work. On my server at home, I can't get a Xen kernel to boot. On my server at work (newer and different hardware), I can get it to boot to a console, but not a GUI, and I can't create a VM. (Both servers are running openSUSE 11.1.) It's not for lack of proper hardware. The server at home runs a dual-core AMD 64, and hardware virtualization is turned on in the BIOS options. The server at work is a quad-core Intel, normally runs Windows Server 2008, and usually has 4 to 6 Hyper-V virtuals running at any given time. Are there any special tricks or incantations that are needed for Xen, beyond the obvious? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 18 January 2009 11:24:18 am Jerry Houston wrote:

On Sunday 18 January 2009 08:03:20 Ciro Iriarte wrote:

...

If you'll be running just linux, the paravirtual performance from Xen can't be beated by VMware, VirtualBox is nice for testing, but not for production, because the VMs die when you close the application.

I'm intrigued with the idea of Xen, but haven't been able to make it work. On my server at home, I can't get a Xen kernel to boot. On my server at work (newer and different hardware), I can get it to boot to a console, but not a GUI, and I can't create a VM. (Both servers are running openSUSE 11.1.)

It's not for lack of proper hardware. The server at home runs a dual-core AMD 64, and hardware virtualization is turned on in the BIOS options. The server at work is a quad-core Intel, normally runs Windows Server 2008, and usually has 4 to 6 Hyper-V virtuals running at any given time.

Are there any special tricks or incantations that are needed for Xen, beyond the obvious?

I found this out the hard way but you better not have a Nvidia card if you wish to run XEN. The driver will not build under XEN, or at least it didn't for me the installer complained about me using XEN and told me to boot into a normal Kernel.

On Monday 19 January 2009 08:19:15 Jerry Houston wrote:

On Sunday 18 January 2009 15:40:41 Adam Jimerson wrote:

...

...

Are there any special tricks or incantations that are needed for Xen, beyond the obvious?

I found this out the hard way but you better not have a Nvidia card if you wish to run XEN. The driver will not build under XEN, or at least it didn't for me the installer complained about me using XEN and told me to boot into a normal Kernel.

You can quite happily run a Xen kernel with an nVidia graphics card. Using the proprietary nVidia binary blob as a graphics driver won't work however.

Ah ... that must be my problem. I'm pretty fond of Nvidia because of their support for Linux. Both the machines I've tried to run Xen on indeed have Nvidia graphics cards.

I guess I've got a choice to make.

One question must surely be, why do you need 3d graphics on a server system? If you really must have the proprietary graphics driver installed, then you might consider looking at KVM as a virtualisation technology. Jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Adam Jimerson wrote:

On Sunday 18 January 2009 10:30:29 pm Jonathan Ervine wrote:

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You can quite happily run a Xen kernel with an nVidia graphics card. Using the proprietary nVidia binary blob as a graphics driver won't work however.

Is there a way to get XEN to use a driver compatible with it, while my normal Kernel still uses the proprietary driver? This machine is not a server, but I need to VM windows for school (the program we use won't work under WINE due to its dependency on .net framework) and I have played with VMware and VirtualBox and wasn't to happy with them. This machine has a AMD Athon 64 x2 at 2.3 Ghz with 3 GB or RAM I'm sure it can handle XEN.

Just an FYI: Here at work, I switched my desktop to Linux a little over a year ago. I have tried a few VMs to run the few Windows Apps I have to have, but mostly VMware Server and Code Weavers (the $$ version of wine). I was unimpressed with the speed of both. A few months ago I tried doing a remote desktop to a WIN2008 server and using that as my "Windows Desktop". That has worked great for me since then and I now rarely use a VM on my Linux Workstation. If I do, it is code weavers just because it integrates into Linux so well. We already had the MS server setup, so it was basically a zero effort setup. I know I'm going against the grain, but at this point, I think keeping a real MS machine around and using RDP to run your windows apps is the best choice. FYI: I don't know which MS OSes support RDP. I've only accessed servers that way, so I know Win2003 / Win2008 both support 2 simultaneous remote users plus the one local user. I'm not the only one doing this, so I actually need to find out what it would cost to add more simultaneous terminal service users to that server. Anyone happen to know. FYI: We do not have any kind of volume purchase agreement with MS. Greg -- Greg Freemyer Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer First 99 Days Litigation White Paper - http://www.norcrossgroup.com/forms/whitepapers/99%20Days%20whitepaper.pdf The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 20 January 2009 01:09:41 Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Adam Jimerson wrote:

...

On Sunday 18 January 2009 10:30:29 pm Jonathan Ervine wrote:

...

You can quite happily run a Xen kernel with an nVidia graphics card. Using the proprietary nVidia binary blob as a graphics driver won't work however.

Is there a way to get XEN to use a driver compatible with it, while my normal Kernel still uses the proprietary driver? This machine is not a server, but I need to VM windows for school (the program we use won't work under WINE due to its dependency on .net framework) and I have played with VMware and VirtualBox and wasn't to happy with them. This machine has a AMD Athon 64 x2 at 2.3 Ghz with 3 GB or RAM I'm sure it can handle XEN.

Just an FYI:

Here at work, I switched my desktop to Linux a little over a year ago. I have tried a few VMs to run the few Windows Apps I have to have, but mostly VMware Server and Code Weavers (the $$ version of wine).

Sorry for the pedantry, but, CrossOver/wine is most definitely not a virtualisation product. It provides an environment in which to run Windows applications, and isn't really an emulator either.

I was unimpressed with the speed of both. A few months ago I tried doing a remote desktop to a WIN2008 server and using that as my "Windows Desktop". That has worked great for me since then and I now rarely use a VM on my Linux Workstation. If I do, it is code weavers just because it integrates into Linux so well.

We already had the MS server setup, so it was basically a zero effort setup.

Oddly I have Windows XP set up in KVM and use RDP to access it and have an acceptable response. I guess each person has different requirements and different levels of acceptability.

I know I'm going against the grain, but at this point, I think keeping a real MS machine around and using RDP to run your windows apps is the best choice.

FYI: I don't know which MS OSes support RDP. I've only accessed servers that way, so I know Win2003 / Win2008 both support 2 simultaneous remote users plus the one local user. I'm not the only one doing this, so I actually need to find out what it would cost to add more simultaneous terminal service users to that server. Anyone happen to know. FYI: We do not have any kind of volume purchase agreement with MS.

The word 'ker-ching' springs to mind. As far as I can remember (and it has been a while), is that Microsoft charge more (or possibly an additional charge) for Terminal Services Licenses. I guess you could arguably say you're simply taking advantage of the Remote Administration feature of Windows Server. But it sounds more like you're running applications in a Terminal Services environment. I am most definitely not a Microsoft Licensing expert however. Microsoft operating systems that support RDP are, as far as I can remember, Windows 2000 Server, Windows XP, Windows 2003, and Windows 2008. Vista and I imagine the forthcoming Windows 7 will also support this. Jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 19 January 2009 09:08:22 pm Jonathan Ervine wrote:

On Tuesday 20 January 2009 00:57:57 Adam Jimerson wrote:

...

On Sunday 18 January 2009 10:30:29 pm Jonathan Ervine wrote:

...

You can quite happily run a Xen kernel with an nVidia graphics card. Using the proprietary nVidia binary blob as a graphics driver won't work however.

Is there a way to get XEN to use a driver compatible with it, while my normal Kernel still uses the proprietary driver? This machine is not a server, but I need to VM windows for school (the program we use won't work under WINE due to its dependency on .net framework) and I have played with VMware and VirtualBox and wasn't to happy with them. This machine has a AMD Athon 64 x2 at 2.3 Ghz with 3 GB or RAM I'm sure it can handle XEN.

Yes it can handle Xen, no it can't handle Xen + nVidia's proprietary graphics driver. Perhaps you could ask nVidia? [that's pretty much rhetorical, as it won't do much good]

As per my previous email, you could look at KVM instead, as that loads as a kernel module, and doesn't require an altered kernel so the nVidia proprietary driver can still be used.

Alternatively, you can ask yourself just how important those wobbly windows really are ....

Jon

Thanks I'll look into KVM, but I'm not even using the composing effects, I installed the nVidia driver due to poor performance with the driver that was originally installed iirc it was the open source NV driver.

2009/1/18 Verner Kjærsgaard :

Permit me...eh VirtualBOX does NOT die when "you close the application".

Look at the CLI part of the user-manual for VirtualBOX, pay attention to what is known as VirtualBoxHeadless or so. I don't recall the exact phrasing right now.

Hi, i've checked the manual, and yes, the VM DOES die when "you close the application" if it's run from the GUI or the VBoxHeadless command (ctrl+c). BUT, it happens you have a third method to start a VM, with "VBoxManage startvm -type vrdp", and that one is suitable to run on a server. Al three options tested... Something new learned, nice... Regards, -- Ciro Iriarte http://cyruspy.wordpress.com --