Don't you guys see how much *trouble* Linux or at least OpenSuse is? Just being on this list without using Linux makes it clear to me how much amazing much *trouble* this system is every day. A bit of distance makes you appreciate that. How much my current life is pretty much problem free (in that sense) except from some weird anomalies in my Microsoft turd-system I didn't have before. All these emails that come by are of a level of running around with a bucket trying to quench fires here and there and there and there. They are problems that should never even exist. KDE all white as root. What the. I keep being amazed by it, that people subject themselves to such nonsense, that I have in the past, and that I probably will in the future, if there is any future. Which is why I would probably want some mini-linux running in a VM giving me access to the tools, but none of the -at least- user interface problems for a GUI. It's a shame that in my last VM attempt network access from guest to host was *really* slow and apparently caused by some ...limitation of VirtualBox. Linux is so badly contained, its scope so badly designed, that problems everywhere are pretty much guaranteed by its design principles. If you want a system that is rife with problems, Linux is a good way to start. Not a bad contender. People always complained that competing commercial systems from the big vendor at One Microsoft Way were big problem machines, but I never quite understood that. Until this recent time, my Microsoft (...) existence had been completely problem free. Except for the issue that installing a system takes too much time, and there is no good way to reinstall the apps / programs you use onto a new system without all the hassle. And then when you create a system image... well that's another story. I never installed any updates so that is one problem gone. I didn't use anti-virus so that is one problem less. The only big glaring omission that is actually there but not really usable, is symlinks. There are no good symlinks in MS Windows crap. Which just sucks big time. Linux's scope is actually defined as "there is no scope, at least not one that you will know, ever". I believe not many people even understand what "scope" means. I never heard anyone talk of it in the linux world. Or "containment". Well, I guess. It just amazes me what kind of problems come by daily here on this list, problems that all of them should have been solved by someone long ago with proper design "intensives" or "incentives". They are problems people shouldn't be dealing with. Problems that shackle you to the ground, forever fixing stuff that shouldn't even be broken. I guess, that drain your energy and keep you tied to a lesser existence? Linux is typically a system that becomes its own raison d'être. Linux then is the end, not the means. You use Linux in order to improve Linux, but not for actual work. Not for leasure. Not for excitement. Not for play. Not for fun. The promise of those things is somewhere at the end of the road, but it feels like the bloody labyrinth from the Death Gate cycle by Weis & Hickman. In those books a people has been placed inside a very dangerous labyrinth as a form of penitentiary. They were judged to be faulty people in need of an education. So the ones who won the war designed a world with gates and when the conquered people would finally have overcome all challenges, they were assumed or would have proven to now be "decent" people. Which they weren't before. But the magicks of those victorious people kinda didn't work out and the labyrinth turned against its inhabitants and became a terribly and terrifyingly hostile world. And at the end was still the promise of liberation. The ones who could escape the labyrinth could expect a peaceful and abundant life in a better place. But few ever did. Most got stuck and cities arose even within the early levels. They built up their arsenal and equipment and life and perhaps tried to move to the next gate when the time was ripe, but slowly. Because anywhere you ventured was lethal. And Linux feels like that with its promise of happiness at the end of the road. Microsoft is adopting Linux's nature with Windows 10; Windows 10 is at times horribly broken but SOMEDAY PERHAPS everything will in the end work. Just wait long enough for enough updates! And they're being forced down your throat too, these days. I don't even know why Microsoft is even a name still worth mentioning. I don't know why we're not using some Google OS or whatever. Why don't we have the OS from this anime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-PkAQcuZOw (just a song). Takes too much time to find that opening with the operating system though. It was pretty wicked. Anyway. Goodbye. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 09:30:12PM +0100, Xen wrote:
Don't you guys see how much *trouble* Linux or at least OpenSuse is?
Just being on this list without using Linux makes it clear to me how much amazing much *trouble* this system is every day.
A bit of distance makes you appreciate that.
You know, people only post problems to this list. They don't usually post when they are happy, and there likely are 99.9% happy campers out there. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de> schreef:
You know, people only post problems to this list.
They don't usually post when they are happy, and there likely are 99.9% happy campers out there.
Ciao, Marcus
But ocassionally there is also a creative proposal, but very rarely. No one ever designated this as a problem solving list. If people are happy you expect them to also tell the tale of that. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be happy or aren't allowed to be happy. There are many forums out there and who knows, perhaps mailing lists are not suited for that sort of thing (but then, why?) but normally on a forum you also see happy stuff and people telling about what they do, certainly not constant and consequent "problem solving" as the only thing, you know. You'd get tales of "I've done this and that in this way". Granted, technical forums of any kind are perhaps mostly suited for problem solving, but that doesn't take away from the fact that even the regulars also don't post about what is going right. So it's a bit like the news: you see only the negative stuff. One of the other posters here mentioned that every post here should be a problem solving post. One that constructively solves problems. But that merely points to the fact that apparently problems is all there are, and not really successes, because he didn't mention that posts here could celebrate like Suse Linux. So why do you suppose there is no or hardly any (that I know of) celebration? Linux requires investment and dedication so there is no reason not to post if something goes right. But the reason I was mentioning what I mentioned was also, and more importantly, that the kind of problems that come by are not really creative problems in the sense of "how do I do this or that?" but more reactive problems in the sense of "how do I fix this or that?" It is when you move to a higher level because the lower levels have been covered, that your existence becomes easier, more happy, and more fruitful. And when most people can only respond with a limited vocabulary that says "troll" whilst also beating themselves on the chest for seeming to "solve" "that" "problem" .... well the spirit of it is negativity, not happiness, breaking down, not building up. A post filled with sarcasm and mean-spiritedness as an attempt to lift people up and call for the great life, the happy life, the constructive life -- a much-abused word. This mean-spiritedness can only come from daily frustration and being immersed in negative thought-forms all day long. So basically I'm saying the feeling that I get is one of X and Y and the person responds in X and Y. You know, it's not harder than that. I mention negativity and getting worn out by problems, and someone responds with negativity and a feeling of being worn out. That's why I called for a bit of distance. These emails on this list are not healthy man :P. I was just saying how much of a good effect it has on me to not be daily immersed in it. And given how poor "Windows" is (why Windows really?) in the "programmatic tool" department .... that I would probably have a need at some point to immerse myself in it again, only to solve some goals or to de-invent some problems. But I do have a need to get out of it again let's say on a regular basis, just to breathe some fresh air again. I would simply recommend playing a good video game now and then, it is software and if there are bugs people complain so much and so much money is usually at stake, that everything gets solved and effectively it is not even released until it's done, or it won't be a commercial success. Also I recommend watching some good and funny documentary, or listening to cute music, as some leisure time set aside from Linux lol. It is very healthy and if you are lucky you will have a system to do it on that doesn't require any form of maintenance or customization that is needed. No things that go wrong, nothing that will collapse, and then you are re-energized when you return to this Linux thing again :P. At least that's how it is for me. It's just that you can't say anything on any Linux list or forum that mentions anything of the real world reality you are facing while using it. Everything has to be that ugly word "constructive" so you can't even relate your own experience as truthful as you may. People don't want to hear your experience (an experience is not a judgement) because an experience can be both negative and postitive and they don't want to hear the negative parts, /even when they are not being judgemental/. So you can hardly speak to anyone about what you experience because a) non tech people hardly understand what you are talking about b) Linux people don't want to hear about what you are talking about That makes it a rather lonely thing, right, this "community". Everyone is so ego-invested in being "wonderful" that you can't tell when something appears as "not wonderful" to you. You cannot relate things that you do not find wonderful. So you are like prohibited of just talking about what you feel because it is not (ugly) "constructive" enough. You cannot share your experiences, but when you do not relate the negative feelings, you also do not get the opportunity to relate any positive feelings; the result is that in the end and eventually more and more, you do not relate anything at all. And that is why there is no "happiness" on this list, to have your answer. It is because "unhappiness" is called "trolling" by people who are very unhappy themselves but who do not express it. There is that answer to that question yes. A little bit of thinking and we arrive at it, it was that easy. Of course some will call this trolling too, because actually they don't really like constructive things at all. So the only thing I would really call for at this point is: the freedom to express yourself. Go ahead and do it more. I invite you :P. TELL ABOUT WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE. And don't package it in an attempt to appear clever or to boast yourself or to belitte others PLEAZE. Why just not speak of what is not as magnificent as well? If you had a bad experience, you can just tell it. And don't immediately crack down on it as if it shouldn't be said. THAT is negative. Anyway. Regards, and bye again. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/27/2015 04:10 PM, Xen wrote:
Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de> schreef:
You know, people only post problems to this list.
They don't usually post when they are happy, and there likely are 99.9% happy campers out there.
Ciao, Marcus
But ocassionally there is also a creative proposal, but very rarely.
No one ever designated this as a problem solving list.
I have been a member of this list for almost *20* years and this list is for helping people that have problems with their install of openSUSE, and SuSE before that. Not for ranting on about /non/ technical issues. -- Ken linux since 1994 S.u.S.E./openSUSE since 1996 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/26/2015 12:30 PM, Xen wrote:
Just being on this list without using Linux makes it clear to me how much amazing much *trouble* this system is every day.
Funny man with too much wine/whine complains that all he sees is problems on a problem solving list. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/26/2015 03:48 PM, John Andersen wrote:
On 11/26/2015 12:30 PM, Xen wrote:
Just being on this list without using Linux makes it clear to me how much amazing much *trouble* this system is every day.
Funny man with too much wine/whine complains that all he sees is problems on a problem solving list.
Indeed. 99% OF Linux users have nothing to complain about so they never appear here on this list. 99% of the people who appear on this list are people that are pushing Suse to its limits or beyond, experimenting and trying things that are obscure, undocumented or poorly documented -- the latter because no-one ever dreamt that anyone (.... "in their right mind" ...) would ever want to do something like that. Which is how progress is made. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/26/2015 10:30 PM, Xen wrote:
Don't you guys see how much *trouble* Linux or at least OpenSuse is?
Just being on this list without using Linux makes it clear to me how much amazing much *trouble* this system is every day. ...
I'm snobbish enough to think that we should all participate at a trolling contest and see, who can come up with a longest text that does not cover any actual issue and bashes the work of others. The contest evaluation criteria might be the following: x) Any concrete technical example of a misfortunate design decision will give MINUS 1 POINTs x) Any technical proposal for fixing anything will give MINUS 10 POINTs x) Any statement that mentions the technical region, where the stated problem exists, but what says that things are bad/shoddy, gives PLUS 5 POINTS x) Any statement that does not mention the technical region, where the stated problem exists, but what says that things are bad/shoddy, gives PLUS 10 POINTS x) Different wordings for the statement that all of the project developers SUCK no matter, what they do, regardless of, whether they do anything at all, are active, retired, etc. give PLUS 100 POINTS x) A detailed, technically adequate description of a problem with a detailed, technically precise proposal for fixing the problem, while keeping the tone of the text non-offensive, avoiding blaming anyone, gives MINUS 100 POINTS x) The same as the previous point, but with batches/pull-requests: MINUS 1000 POINTS I won't bother participating, because I probably deserve -500 points for the current letter alone. :-D Happy trolling to everybody!!!
On 11/27/2015 01:33 PM, Martin Vahi wrote: Well, I am far happier with Linux than I ever was with Windows. Whenever I needed a tool in Windows, I had to pay for it to get a good one. Otherwise there was only crap available for free. Not so in opensuse - there are plenty of good tools. I probably spend slightly more time in a year maintaining my system with Linux than I did with Windows, but I don't have to worry about viruses. And most of all, I understand so much more by having to maintain my system properly, and that helps tremendously. The cost paid in time is gained in knowledge, and it is definitely worth it. And once you get your system up and running, it really doesn't take much to keep using it. It may not be for everyone, but I won't go back. I remember so many times in windows that the computer was just got slow after using it for about a year, and there was nothing I could do except live with it, and plan on buying a new one. Or every once in a while I had to reinstall the operating system, then reinstall the virus protection, get all the updates again, and all that. I definitely feel more secure with Linux. -- George Box #1: 13.2 | KDE 4.14 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 16GB Box #2: 13.1 | KDE 4.12 | AMD Athlon X3 | 64 | 4GB Laptop #1: 13.1 | KDE 4.12 | Core i7-2620M | 64 | 8GB Laptop #2: 13.2 | KDE 4.14 | Core i7-4710HQ | 64 | 16GB -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/11/15 10:19, George Olson (SUSE list) wrote: [...] Please, can we kill this thread? It is a troll. I understand the urge to join in and comment, but the best response to this sort of post is to ignore it. Then they get bored and hopefully go away. Remember - Don't feed the Trolls! Bob -- Bob Williams System: Linux 4.1.12-1-default Distro: openSUSE 42.1 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.14.10
Bob Williams <linux@karmasailing.uk> schreef:
On 27/11/15 10:19, George Olson (SUSE list) wrote: [...]
Please, can we kill this thread? It is a troll. I understand the urge to join in and comment, but the best response to this sort of post is to ignore it. Then they get bored and hopefully go away.
Remember - Don't feed the Trolls!
So what is your big intertest in terminating someone else's thread? Do you have a stake in the matter? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Xen wrote:
Bob Williams <linux@karmasailing.uk> schreef:
On 27/11/15 10:19, George Olson (SUSE list) wrote: [...]
Please, can we kill this thread? It is a troll. I understand the urge to join in and comment, but the best response to this sort of post is to ignore it. Then they get bored and hopefully go away.
Remember - Don't feed the Trolls!
So what is your big intertest in terminating someone else's thread?
Do you have a stake in the matter?]
Every member on this list has a stake in the matter. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.8°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/30/2015 08:49 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Xen wrote:
Bob Williams <linux@karmasailing.uk> schreef:
On 27/11/15 10:19, George Olson (SUSE list) wrote: [...]
Please, can we kill this thread? It is a troll. I understand the urge to join in and comment, but the best response to this sort of post is to ignore it. Then they get bored and hopefully go away.
Remember - Don't feed the Trolls! So what is your big intertest in terminating someone else's thread?
Do you have a stake in the matter?] Every member on this list has a stake in the matter.
+1. Appeals and efforts to end divisive, unproductive, combative, etc. threads are welcome.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Anton Aylward -
Bob Williams -
George Olson (SUSE list) -
Gustav Degreef -
John Andersen -
Ken Schneider -
Marcus Meissner -
Martin Vahi -
Per Jessen -
Xen