[opensuse] google gmail changed IMAP to retain all of your email, regardless of IMAP settings.
I noticed some people having probs with gmail back in September, and I noticed a problem with gmail that I couldn't ignore and still haven't solved. Sometime last spring google changed their IMAPS service to no longer follow the IMAP specification. In IMAP, all email is normally routed to a fixed name 'Inbox' or 'INBOX'. They changed their IMAP service to put all email under a label called 'All Mail' that is not displayed, by default. IMAP users who previously turned off SPAM filtering had it turned back on with the IMAP 'INBOX' getting the remainder of the mail. When I checked my account, I found about 440 emails in the Junk/SPAM folder that were only emails from the past 30 days. Email in the Spam folder, is auto-deleted after 30 days. The above default to putting email in 'All Mail' happens even though the IMAP settings are set to have it deleted: ------This is from the control pannel for IMAP and POP access---- Status: IMAP is enabled x Enable IMAP Disable IMAP When I mark a message in IMAP as deleted: Auto-Expunge on - Immediately update the server. (default) x Auto-Expunge off - Wait for the client to update the server. When a message is marked as deleted and expunged from the last visible IMAP folder: Archive the message (default) Move the message to the Trash x Immediately delete the message forever -------------------------------------------------- Turns out I am now using about 1.8GB out of my allotment. I'm still engaging with their 3rd party support people -- google no longer handles customer support for gmail, but routes emails and calls to a 3rd party support organization that knows nothing about google's technical setup. Example of instructions for proceeding further in trying to escalate this: ======= Having addressed that we can now focus on the main issue "why IMAP settings are not being followed". To begin looking into this reported error I will need the following information. 1) Disconnect your account from IMAP and re-add. If the issue persist, please obtain the next pieces of information. 2) Screenshot of the IMAP settings claimed not working as intended 3) Screenshot of your IMAP configuration 4) Expected behavior 5) Actual behavior ======== Copying and pasting the settings wasn't something they could deal with. They responded: ============== Copying and pasting the setting configuration is not necessarily the same. I actually do not understand all of the text sent together as it appears everything is just joined together. Once again the following screenshot will allow us to determine why the messages are not being deleted from Google's side. 1) Log into Gmail.com 2) Go to Settings > Forwarding and POP/IMAP 3) Full Page Screenshot showing computer Time Stamp We will be awaiting your response with this so that we may continue to review your request. -------------- What computer time stamp? They don't have access to the gmail setup pages we are presented with. Anyway, if you thought you were not keeping your email on gmail -- you might want to check. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/10/2019 15.10, L A Walsh wrote:
I noticed some people having probs with gmail back in September, and I noticed a problem with gmail that I couldn't ignore and still haven't solved.
Sometime last spring google changed their IMAPS service to no longer follow the IMAP specification. In IMAP, all email is normally routed to a fixed name 'Inbox' or 'INBOX'.
They changed their IMAP service to put all email under a label called 'All Mail' that is not displayed, by default. IMAP users who previously turned off SPAM filtering had it turned back on with the IMAP 'INBOX' getting the remainder of the mail.
AFAIK, they have not changed. They have done that all the time. And they have never followed imap standards. My config on Alpine is: (Notice: I have to use quoted text for long lines in Thunderbird) ]> "imap Ggl L" {imap.gmail.com/ssl/user=robin...@gmail.com}INBOX, (show them a screenshot of that, LOL) As you can see, it uses the word "INBOX". or in fetchmail: ]> poll imap.gmail.com with interval 0 proto imap timeout 50, and tracepolls ]> user robin....@gmail.com, with password "PASSWORD", is cer here, expunge 20, and ssl, and fetchall (which defaults to using INBOX. When fetchmail fetches a post, it disappears from the INBOX and can be seen under "All" (or "archives" in Th), or under separate labels for the mail lists. It is not deleted. I prefer it that way, with gmail. However, I have seen mentions on the alpine mail list or fetchmail perhaps, of configurations to have Gmail automatically delete mail.
When I checked my account, I found about 440 emails in the Junk/SPAM folder that were only emails from the past 30 days. Email in the Spam folder, is auto-deleted after 30 days.
My spam settings with google have always been "active". You simply train it, and will recognize what is spam for you and what not, quite fast. Simply, in the web interface, mark them as "not spam". Similarly with Thunderbird. I just looked into my gmail spam folder, and there are 17 posts, all real spam, not a single false positive. And yes, after 30 days they are deleted. No problem with that.
The above default to putting email in 'All Mail' happens even though the IMAP settings are set to have it deleted:
So you want fetched mail to be deleted. Simple google for "automatically delete fetched mail with whatever in gmail", and forget support. Or ask in the support channel of your mail program. I know about Alpine and fetchmail. I do not delete mail.
------This is from the control pannel for IMAP and POP access----
Status: IMAP is enabled x Enable IMAP Disable IMAP
When I mark a message in IMAP as deleted: Auto-Expunge on - Immediately update the server. (default) x Auto-Expunge off - Wait for the client to update the server.
When a message is marked as deleted and expunged from the last visible IMAP folder: Archive the message (default) Move the message to the Trash x Immediately delete the message forever
--------------------------------------------------
Turns out I am now using about 1.8GB out of my allotment.
So? :-D
I'm still engaging with their 3rd party support people -- google no longer handles customer support for gmail, but routes emails and calls to a 3rd party support organization that knows nothing about google's technical setup. Example of instructions for proceeding further in trying to escalate this:
=======
Having addressed that we can now focus on the main issue "why IMAP settings are not being followed". To begin looking into this reported error I will need the following information.
1) Disconnect your account from IMAP and re-add. If the issue persist, please obtain the next pieces of information. 2) Screenshot of the IMAP settings claimed not working as intended 3) Screenshot of your IMAP configuration 4) Expected behavior 5) Actual behavior ========
Copying and pasting the settings wasn't something they could deal with. They responded: ============== Copying and pasting the setting configuration is not necessarily the same. I actually do not understand all of the text sent together as it appears everything is just joined together.
Send the screenshot of firefox. :-)
Once again the following screenshot will allow us to determine why the messages are not being deleted from Google's side.
1) Log into Gmail.com 2) Go to Settings > Forwarding and POP/IMAP 3) Full Page Screenshot showing computer Time Stamp
We will be awaiting your response with this so that we may continue to review your request. --------------
What computer time stamp?
The clock on the panel bar.
They don't have access to the gmail setup pages we are presented with.
Anyway, if you thought you were not keeping your email on gmail -- you might want to check.
Old stuff :-) When my gmail fill ups, I will delete mails using web page. Not an issue, has not filled up in a decade. If you want to have it autodeleted, I'll check the Alpine mail list for you. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)
11.10.2019 19:58, Carlos E. R. пишет:
However, I have seen mentions on the alpine mail list or fetchmail perhaps, of configurations to have Gmail automatically delete mail.
To delete message in Gmail you need to move it into Trash. When you EXPUNGE message via IMAP protocol it simply removes labels associated with message, thus "removing" it from "folders".
On 2019/10/11 11:07, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
11.10.2019 19:58, Carlos E. R. пишет:
However, I have seen mentions on the alpine mail list or fetchmail perhaps, of configurations to have Gmail automatically delete mail.
To delete message in Gmail you need to move it into Trash. When you EXPUNGE message via IMAP protocol it simply removes labels associated with message, thus "removing" it from "folders".
You can move it into trash, but that doesn't delete it either. You have to then empty the trash and it will ask you if you are that you wish to permanently delete it. However, I don't want to log into gmail to have to do maintenance on 200M of email every month. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
11.10.2019 21:31, L A Walsh пишет:
On 2019/10/11 11:07, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
11.10.2019 19:58, Carlos E. R. пишет:
However, I have seen mentions on the alpine mail list or fetchmail perhaps, of configurations to have Gmail automatically delete mail.
To delete message in Gmail you need to move it into Trash. When you EXPUNGE message via IMAP protocol it simply removes labels associated with message, thus "removing" it from "folders".
You can move it into trash, but that doesn't delete it either.
It does after 30 days.
You have to then empty the trash and it will ask you if you are that you wish to permanently delete it.
However, I don't want to log into gmail to have to do maintenance on 200M of email every month.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019/10/11 09:58, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 11/10/2019 15.10, L A Walsh wrote:
I noticed some people having probs with gmail back in September, and I noticed a problem with gmail that I couldn't ignore and still haven't solved.
Sometime last spring google changed their IMAPS service to no longer follow the IMAP specification. In IMAP, all email is normally routed to a fixed name 'Inbox' or 'INBOX'.
They changed their IMAP service to put all email under a label called 'All Mail' that is not displayed, by default. IMAP users who previously turned off SPAM filtering had it turned back on with the IMAP 'INBOX' getting the remainder of the mail.
AFAIK, they have not changed. They have done that all the time. And they have never followed imap standards.
---- I beg to differ. I had spam filtering and email retention turned off. I checked to make sure it really was deleting it. Then last spring they added some change -- didn't think it affected me. Maybe they didn't change anything, but I don't know why my 'All mail' setting only goes back to last spring when I've had their service for about a year longer. Either way, their support people don't know anything about it. For something that you say below is "old news", you'd think their support people would have some clue about how their service works. They don't know why it isn't deleted. Go Figure... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* L A Walsh <suse@tlinx.org> [10-11-19 14:25]:
On 2019/10/11 09:58, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 11/10/2019 15.10, L A Walsh wrote:
I noticed some people having probs with gmail back in September, and I noticed a problem with gmail that I couldn't ignore and still haven't solved.
Sometime last spring google changed their IMAPS service to no longer follow the IMAP specification. In IMAP, all email is normally routed to a fixed name 'Inbox' or 'INBOX'.
They changed their IMAP service to put all email under a label called 'All Mail' that is not displayed, by default. IMAP users who previously turned off SPAM filtering had it turned back on with the IMAP 'INBOX' getting the remainder of the mail.
AFAIK, they have not changed. They have done that all the time. And they have never followed imap standards.
---- I beg to differ. I had spam filtering and email retention turned off.
I checked to make sure it really was deleting it. Then last spring they added some change -- didn't think it affected me. Maybe they didn't change anything, but I don't know why my 'All mail' setting only goes back to last spring when I've had their service for about a year longer.
I have "all mail" from 2004, 12-17 -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019-10-11 04:37 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
I checked to make sure it really was deleting it. Then last spring they added some change -- didn't think it affected me. Maybe they didn't change anything, but I don't know why my 'All mail' setting only goes back to last spring when I've had their service for about a year longer. I have "all mail" from 2004, 12-17
I have my own domain on GMail "G Suite". My All Mail in a browser goes back to Oct 4, but in Seamonkey & Thunderbird, it goes back to 2009. I have no idea why the difference. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 06:10:53 -0700 L A Walsh <suse@tlinx.org> wrote:
I noticed some people having probs with gmail back in September, and I noticed a problem with gmail that I couldn't ignore and still haven't solved.
Sometime last spring google changed their IMAPS service to no longer follow the IMAP specification. In IMAP, all email is normally routed to a fixed name 'Inbox' or 'INBOX'.
They changed their IMAP service to put all email under a label called 'All Mail' that is not displayed, by default. IMAP users who previously turned off SPAM filtering had it turned back on with the IMAP 'INBOX' getting the remainder of the mail.
When I checked my account, I found about 440 emails in the Junk/SPAM folder that were only emails from the past 30 days. Email in the Spam folder, is auto-deleted after 30 days.
The above default to putting email in 'All Mail' happens even though the IMAP settings are set to have it deleted:
------This is from the control pannel for IMAP and POP access----
Status: IMAP is enabled x Enable IMAP Disable IMAP
When I mark a message in IMAP as deleted: Auto-Expunge on - Immediately update the server. (default) x Auto-Expunge off - Wait for the client to update the server.
When a message is marked as deleted and expunged from the last visible IMAP folder: Archive the message (default) Move the message to the Trash x Immediately delete the message forever
--------------------------------------------------
Turns out I am now using about 1.8GB out of my allotment.
I'm still engaging with their 3rd party support people -- google no longer handles customer support for gmail, but routes emails and calls to a 3rd party support organization that knows nothing about google's technical setup. Example of instructions for proceeding further in trying to escalate this:
=======
Having addressed that we can now focus on the main issue "why IMAP settings are not being followed". To begin looking into this reported error I will need the following information.
1) Disconnect your account from IMAP and re-add. If the issue persist, please obtain the next pieces of information. 2) Screenshot of the IMAP settings claimed not working as intended 3) Screenshot of your IMAP configuration 4) Expected behavior 5) Actual behavior ========
Copying and pasting the settings wasn't something they could deal with. They responded: ============== Copying and pasting the setting configuration is not necessarily the same. I actually do not understand all of the text sent together as it appears everything is just joined together.
Once again the following screenshot will allow us to determine why the messages are not being deleted from Google's side.
1) Log into Gmail.com 2) Go to Settings > Forwarding and POP/IMAP 3) Full Page Screenshot showing computer Time Stamp
We will be awaiting your response with this so that we may continue to review your request. --------------
What computer time stamp?
They don't have access to the gmail setup pages we are presented with.
Anyway, if you thought you were not keeping your email on gmail -- you might want to check.
I don't understand why anybody uses a gmail account? I'm sorry but "Don't be evil." How old is that? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2019-10-11 at 19:47 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
I don't understand why anybody uses a gmail account? I'm sorry but "Don't be evil." How old is that?
Do you an _excellent_ mail provider? I don't. For example, I have been using gmx for a bit more than a year. Two weeks ago they blocked my account, they forced me to renew my password. The message I got was absurd. They started doing it every day. After several email exchanges with support, it turned out they are doing spam filtering on outgoing email, and the end result is that when they flag an email as spam it resulted in they blocking my account and forcing me to change the password (the exact chain of events unclear). For example, what they think as a suspicious URL may trigger it. Or an email with a lot of quoted material (which happens a lot on the off topic mail list). - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHoEARECADoWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXaDVCBwccm9iaW4ubGlz dGFzQHRlbGVmb25pY2EubmV0AAoJELUzGBxtjUfVCt8AoIjRIOWhyOZ0aodsap+T dr/irxFnAJoDRUzk5Wfgey75uxVyPZ/6OgNV3A== =UYma -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 21:16:24 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
Do you an _excellent_ mail provider? I don't.
Yes, I believe my ISP - Zen - is an excellent email provider. So if I was you I'd search harder but be prepared to pay a fair price. Google is not, AFAICT. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Howorth -
James Knott -
L A Walsh -
Patrick Shanahan