On Thu, 2 May 2024 13:37:05 +0200 Marcus Meissner wrote:

On Thu, May 02, 2024 at 12:03:08PM +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Today I have 5 spam messages, sent yesterday, addressed to users@lists.opensuse.org :(

They are all sent by User-Agent: HyperKitty on https://lists.opensuse.org/

I've noticed previously that pretty much all the spam I receive from this list are sent in the same way. So if it's too much to ask that the filters for this source be made stricter, can I suggest that we simply ban people from submitting mail to the list in this way?

Such traffic makes up less than 1% of the messages to the list, so we won't be losing much.

Hyperkitty is the mailinglist software.

I believe HyperKitty as a User-Agent means the 'mail' was submitted via the web interface rather than via a 'proper' MUA. If people can't be bothered to send mails to a mailing list in the normal way then I suggest they use the forum for support instead, and again, I suggest we stop allowing this form of submission of mails.

I would guess that either the spam bypassed our filters, or was incorrectly approved by the moderator.

Ciao, Marcus

Dave Howorth wrote:

I believe HyperKitty as a User-Agent means the 'mail' was submitted via the web interface rather than via a 'proper' MUA. If people can't be bothered to send mails to a mailing list in the normal way then I suggest they use the forum for support instead, and again, I suggest we stop allowing this form of submission of mails.

I use the web interface of lists.o.o to send mails to -devel all the time. Let's not take draconian measures just because one fine day the list received a couple of spam mails and soured your mood a little. We also see (quite a few) spam comments on build.o.o, perhaps we should shut down its web interface too? Cheers, -- Atri

Dave Howorth wrote:

On Thu, 02 May 2024 18:13:37 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" wrote:

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Dave Howorth wrote: I believe HyperKitty as a User-Agent means the 'mail' was submitted via the web interface rather than via a 'proper' MUA. If people can't be bothered to send mails to a mailing list in the normal way then I suggest they use the forum for support instead, and again, I suggest we stop allowing this form of submission of mails. I use the web interface of lists.o.o to send mails

Why do you do that instead of using a MUA in the usual way?

I find it convenient: the browser is open most of the day anyway for me, lists.o.o is open in a tab to check back occasionally and respond if needed, and my @opensuse.org alias no longer works from my mail client (I have given up trying to reconfigure it).

How difficult would it be for you to use a MUA?

Inconvenient enough — also in my opinion pointless enough — that I would stop communicating with -devel (factory) and eventually stop contributing to openSUSE at all. Certainly more difficult than ignoring a few spam mails. I only posit that not all mails sent from the lists.o.o web interface are spam. Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water, please. Cheers, -- Atri

On Thu, 02 May 2024 19:43:36 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" wrote:

Inconvenient enough — also in my opinion pointless enough — that I would stop communicating with -devel (factory) and eventually stop contributing to openSUSE at all. Certainly more difficult than ignoring a few spam mails.

But we're talking about users@ and maybe support@ here; not other lists. And you haven't contributed here, or asked for advice, at all as far as I can see. What other lists do is up to them.

I only posit that not all mails sent from the lists.o.o web interface are spam. Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water, please.

I agree that not all such mails are spam, but they're a very small proportion of the traffic, so asking that small proportion of people to use the forum for support instead seems a reasonable compromise IMHO.

On Fri, 03 May 2024 18:33:35 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" wrote:

Dave Howorth wrote:

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On Thu, 02 May 2024 19:43:36 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" wrote:

...

Inconvenient enough — also in my opinion pointless enough — that I would stop communicating with -devel (factory) and eventually stop contributing to openSUSE at all. Certainly more difficult than ignoring a few spam mails.

...

But we're talking about users@ and maybe support@ here; not other lists. And you haven't contributed here, or asked for advice, at all as far as I can see. What other lists do is up to them.

Hyperkitty begs to differ, for example (there are others, if you look back enough): https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/890365 based on https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/support@lists.opensuse.org/thread/G...

Apologies, I forgot to check my archived mails :( [snip]

Anywho, back to the topic, I do not see how we could have one kind of policy for users@ and support@ and a whole different policy for factory@, python@, etc.

Carlos has already explained how he does it on one list alone. So it is clearly possible. 'Policies' are a red herring - practicality is what matters.

Dave Howorth wrote:

On Fri, 03 May 2024 18:33:35 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" wrote:

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Dave Howorth wrote: On Thu, 02 May 2024 19:43:36 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" wrote: Inconvenient enough — also in my opinion pointless enough — that I would stop communicating with -devel (factory) and eventually stop contributing to openSUSE at all. Certainly more difficult than ignoring a few spam mails. But we're talking about users@ and maybe support@ here; not other lists. And you haven't contributed here, or asked for advice, at all as far as I can see. What other lists do is up to them. Hyperkitty begs to differ, for example (there are others, if you look back enough): https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/890365 based on https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/support@lists.opensuse.org/thread/G... Apologies, I forgot to check my archived mails :(

[snip]

...

Anywho, back to the topic, I do not see how we could have one kind of policy for users@ and support@ and a whole different policy for factory@, python@, etc. Carlos has already explained how he does it on one list alone. So it is clearly possible. 'Policies' are a red herring - practicality is what matters.

Carlos moderates a list (a thankless job, so big thanks Carlos!). Unlike you, he is not calling for one entire mode of accessing the lists to be slammed shut. Big difference! If you want to do the latter, you will need the openSUSE board to enact and enforce a consistent policy. You cannot just say: I find it practical, so I shall shut down *all* people who use access lists in a particular way just because I feel they are a good-for-nothing minority of users. Cheers, -- Atri

On Thu, 2 May 2024 14:27:33 -0600 Darryl Gregorash wrote:

On 2024-05-02 13:23, Dave Howorth wrote:

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How difficult would it be for you to use a MUA?

And how difficult would it be for you simply to add another entry to your spam filters, and be done with it? As you yourself said, this sort of thing constitutes 1% or less of total traffic in these lists, so you would be doing two things: 1. saving yourself from these petty annoyances, and 2. saving the rest of us from your incessant complaints.

I'm sorry, Carlos has already pointed out how the modertor can fix this issue very simply, so why don't you let us discuss that without making personal attacks.

On 2024-05-03 04:45, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2024-05-02 22:27, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

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On 2024-05-02 13:23, Dave Howorth wrote:

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  How difficult would it be for you to use a MUA? And how difficult would it be for you simply to add another entry to your spam filters, and be done with it?

<snip> Ask me if you don't find how :-)

Without the whitelist, my filter finds 41 hits.

Why are you telling *me* how to create a TBird mail filter? Did you think that perhaps, because I didn't give Dave detailed instructions on how to do it, that I didn't know how myself?

On 2024-05-02 13:37, Marcus Meissner wrote:

On Thu, May 02, 2024 at 12:03:08PM +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Today I have 5 spam messages, sent yesterday, addressed to users@lists.opensuse.org :(

They are all sent by User-Agent: HyperKitty on https://lists.opensuse.org/

I've noticed previously that pretty much all the spam I receive from this list are sent in the same way. So if it's too much to ask that the filters for this source be made stricter, can I suggest that we simply ban people from submitting mail to the list in this way?

Such traffic makes up less than 1% of the messages to the list, so we won't be losing much.

Hyperkitty is the mailinglist software.

That user-agent is the web interface to post mail to the lists. It allows people that are not subscribers to send mail if they identify with a gmail identity, for instance. I don't know if that identities can be disabled.

I would guess that either the spam bypassed our filters, or was incorrectly approved by the moderator.

I am the moderator on the Spanish mail list, and there I have solved the issue with a rule that places all email with the header User-Agent: HyperKitty under moderation. It is of course more work for the moderator. I propose that the moderator for users@lists.opensuse.org does the same. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.5 x86_64 at Telcontar)