Today I have 5 spam messages, sent yesterday, addressed to users@lists.opensuse.org :( They are all sent by User-Agent: HyperKitty on https://lists.opensuse.org/ I've noticed previously that pretty much all the spam I receive from this list are sent in the same way. So if it's too much to ask that the filters for this source be made stricter, can I suggest that we simply ban people from submitting mail to the list in this way? Such traffic makes up less than 1% of the messages to the list, so we won't be losing much.
On Thu, May 02, 2024 at 12:03:08PM +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
Today I have 5 spam messages, sent yesterday, addressed to users@lists.opensuse.org :(
They are all sent by User-Agent: HyperKitty on https://lists.opensuse.org/
I've noticed previously that pretty much all the spam I receive from this list are sent in the same way. So if it's too much to ask that the filters for this source be made stricter, can I suggest that we simply ban people from submitting mail to the list in this way?
Such traffic makes up less than 1% of the messages to the list, so we won't be losing much.
Hyperkitty is the mailinglist software. I would guess that either the spam bypassed our filters, or was incorrectly approved by the moderator. Ciao, Marcus
On Thu, 2 May 2024 13:37:05 +0200 Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de> wrote:
On Thu, May 02, 2024 at 12:03:08PM +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
Today I have 5 spam messages, sent yesterday, addressed to users@lists.opensuse.org :(
They are all sent by User-Agent: HyperKitty on https://lists.opensuse.org/
I've noticed previously that pretty much all the spam I receive from this list are sent in the same way. So if it's too much to ask that the filters for this source be made stricter, can I suggest that we simply ban people from submitting mail to the list in this way?
Such traffic makes up less than 1% of the messages to the list, so we won't be losing much.
Hyperkitty is the mailinglist software.
I believe HyperKitty as a User-Agent means the 'mail' was submitted via the web interface rather than via a 'proper' MUA. If people can't be bothered to send mails to a mailing list in the normal way then I suggest they use the forum for support instead, and again, I suggest we stop allowing this form of submission of mails.
I would guess that either the spam bypassed our filters, or was incorrectly approved by the moderator.
Ciao, Marcus
* Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> [05-02-24 10:39]:
On Thu, 2 May 2024 13:37:05 +0200 Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de> wrote:
On Thu, May 02, 2024 at 12:03:08PM +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
Today I have 5 spam messages, sent yesterday, addressed to users@lists.opensuse.org :(
They are all sent by User-Agent: HyperKitty on https://lists.opensuse.org/
I've noticed previously that pretty much all the spam I receive from this list are sent in the same way. So if it's too much to ask that the filters for this source be made stricter, can I suggest that we simply ban people from submitting mail to the list in this way?
Such traffic makes up less than 1% of the messages to the list, so we won't be losing much.
Hyperkitty is the mailinglist software.
I believe HyperKitty as a User-Agent means the 'mail' was submitted via the web interface rather than via a 'proper' MUA. If people can't be bothered to send mails to a mailing list in the normal way then I suggest they use the forum for support instead, and again, I suggest we stop allowing this form of submission of mails.
I would guess that either the spam bypassed our filters, or was incorrectly approved by the moderator.
yes, msgs with: User-Agent: HyperKitty should be removed as spam or otherwise banned/removed. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc
Dave Howorth wrote:
I believe HyperKitty as a User-Agent means the 'mail' was submitted via the web interface rather than via a 'proper' MUA. If people can't be bothered to send mails to a mailing list in the normal way then I suggest they use the forum for support instead, and again, I suggest we stop allowing this form of submission of mails.
I use the web interface of lists.o.o to send mails to -devel all the time. Let's not take draconian measures just because one fine day the list received a couple of spam mails and soured your mood a little. We also see (quite a few) spam comments on build.o.o, perhaps we should shut down its web interface too? Cheers, -- Atri
On Thu, 02 May 2024 18:13:37 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" <badshah400@opensuse.org> wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
I believe HyperKitty as a User-Agent means the 'mail' was submitted via the web interface rather than via a 'proper' MUA. If people can't be bothered to send mails to a mailing list in the normal way then I suggest they use the forum for support instead, and again, I suggest we stop allowing this form of submission of mails.
I use the web interface of lists.o.o to send mails
Why do you do that instead of using a MUA in the usual way? How difficult would it be for you to use a MUA?
Dave Howorth wrote:
On Thu, 02 May 2024 18:13:37 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote: I believe HyperKitty as a User-Agent means the 'mail' was submitted via the web interface rather than via a 'proper' MUA. If people can't be bothered to send mails to a mailing list in the normal way then I suggest they use the forum for support instead, and again, I suggest we stop allowing this form of submission of mails. I use the web interface of lists.o.o to send mails
Why do you do that instead of using a MUA in the usual way?
I find it convenient: the browser is open most of the day anyway for me, lists.o.o is open in a tab to check back occasionally and respond if needed, and my @opensuse.org alias no longer works from my mail client (I have given up trying to reconfigure it).
How difficult would it be for you to use a MUA?
Inconvenient enough — also in my opinion pointless enough — that I would stop communicating with -devel (factory) and eventually stop contributing to openSUSE at all. Certainly more difficult than ignoring a few spam mails. I only posit that not all mails sent from the lists.o.o web interface are spam. Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water, please. Cheers, -- Atri
On 2024-05-02 21:43, Atri Bhattacharya wrote:
I only posit that not all mails sent from the lists.o.o web interface are spam. Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water, please.
Only those that identify via google. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.5 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Thu, 02 May 2024 19:43:36 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" <badshah400@opensuse.org> wrote:
Inconvenient enough — also in my opinion pointless enough — that I would stop communicating with -devel (factory) and eventually stop contributing to openSUSE at all. Certainly more difficult than ignoring a few spam mails.
But we're talking about users@ and maybe support@ here; not other lists. And you haven't contributed here, or asked for advice, at all as far as I can see. What other lists do is up to them.
I only posit that not all mails sent from the lists.o.o web interface are spam. Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water, please.
I agree that not all such mails are spam, but they're a very small proportion of the traffic, so asking that small proportion of people to use the forum for support instead seems a reasonable compromise IMHO.
Dave Howorth wrote:
On Thu, 02 May 2024 19:43:36 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" wrote:
Inconvenient enough — also in my opinion pointless enough — that I would stop communicating with -devel (factory) and eventually stop contributing to openSUSE at all. Certainly more difficult than ignoring a few spam mails.
But we're talking about users@ and maybe support@ here; not other lists. And you haven't contributed here, or asked for advice, at all as far as I can see. What other lists do is up to them.
Hyperkitty begs to differ, for example (there are others, if you look back enough): https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/890365 based on <https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/support@lists.opensuse.org/thread/GDUB43XBWQPFH5ONS6WYWQCEARYHU3O4/#ABOWAV6MHDKMUVP4PTLPHWUOZ6G2OO2B> Admittedly a while ago, I used to scour these lists for packages that users wanted and were missing from the distro, to see if I could help out by packaging them. I think such package requests are fewer and fewer now, probably because we do such a great job already(!!!) or perhaps I have just too many to handle on my plate already, I have engaged less and less here (not going to lie, the tone of some of the messages here and on support@ have turned me off too). Anywho, back to the topic, I do not see how we could have one kind of policy for users@ and support@ and a whole different policy for factory@, python@, etc. where I do need to communicate from time to time. I would also consider it at least mildly insulting that I am branded a spammer and banned from mailing lists anywhere on lists.o.o.
I only posit that not all mails sent from the lists.o.o web interface are spam. Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water, please.
I agree that not all such mails are spam, but they're a very small proportion of the traffic, so asking that small proportion of people to use the forum for support instead seems a reasonable compromise IMHO.
As you rightly point out, it is a matter of opinion, not grounds for policy making. Cheers, -- Atri
On Fri, 03 May 2024 18:33:35 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" <badshah400@opensuse.org> wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
On Thu, 02 May 2024 19:43:36 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" wrote:
Inconvenient enough — also in my opinion pointless enough — that I would stop communicating with -devel (factory) and eventually stop contributing to openSUSE at all. Certainly more difficult than ignoring a few spam mails.
But we're talking about users@ and maybe support@ here; not other lists. And you haven't contributed here, or asked for advice, at all as far as I can see. What other lists do is up to them.
Hyperkitty begs to differ, for example (there are others, if you look back enough): https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/890365 based on <https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/support@lists.opensuse.org/thread/GDUB43XBWQPFH5ONS6WYWQCEARYHU3O4/#ABOWAV6MHDKMUVP4PTLPHWUOZ6G2OO2B>
Apologies, I forgot to check my archived mails :( [snip]
Anywho, back to the topic, I do not see how we could have one kind of policy for users@ and support@ and a whole different policy for factory@, python@, etc.
Carlos has already explained how he does it on one list alone. So it is clearly possible. 'Policies' are a red herring - practicality is what matters.
On 2024-05-03 21:41, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Fri, 03 May 2024 18:33:35 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" <badshah400@opensuse.org> wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
On Thu, 02 May 2024 19:43:36 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" wrote:
Inconvenient enough — also in my opinion pointless enough — that I would stop communicating with -devel (factory) and eventually stop contributing to openSUSE at all. Certainly more difficult than ignoring a few spam mails.
But we're talking about users@ and maybe support@ here; not other lists. And you haven't contributed here, or asked for advice, at all as far as I can see. What other lists do is up to them.
Hyperkitty begs to differ, for example (there are others, if you look back enough): https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/890365 based on <https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/support@lists.opensuse.org/thread/GDUB43XBWQPFH5ONS6WYWQCEARYHU3O4/#ABOWAV6MHDKMUVP4PTLPHWUOZ6G2OO2B>
Apologies, I forgot to check my archived mails :(
[snip]
Anywho, back to the topic, I do not see how we could have one kind of policy for users@ and support@ and a whole different policy for factory@, python@, etc.
Carlos has already explained how he does it on one list alone. So it is clearly possible. 'Policies' are a red herring - practicality is what matters.
It means a delay till a human can review the post and accept it. Anything from minutes to days. So far in the Spanish list only one post has been affected, and the delay was one day (it came just as I switched off for the night, and the next day the admin interface was offline). The rest of the hits were all spam, so I consider it acceptable. If there are regulars using the web interface, then this method I don't think is acceptable. The rule would have to be made more complex, and there is no documentation to the admin interface. I don't know if it is feasible to add exceptions. Basically: if User-Agent: HyperKitty* and From: *@gmail.com and not in a list of exceptions, then hold mail for moderation I don't know if it is possible. The other strategy, is removing the authorization to google users. Basically, a non subscriber can post just by logging to gmail. I have no idea if this is possible at all (it is beyond the powers of a moderator), but it would solve the spam problem. You have to ask the heroes team. Open a ticket. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.5 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Dave Howorth wrote:
On Fri, 03 May 2024 18:33:35 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote: On Thu, 02 May 2024 19:43:36 -0000 "Atri Bhattacharya" wrote: Inconvenient enough — also in my opinion pointless enough — that I would stop communicating with -devel (factory) and eventually stop contributing to openSUSE at all. Certainly more difficult than ignoring a few spam mails. But we're talking about users@ and maybe support@ here; not other lists. And you haven't contributed here, or asked for advice, at all as far as I can see. What other lists do is up to them. Hyperkitty begs to differ, for example (there are others, if you look back enough): https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/890365 based on https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/support@lists.opensuse.org/thread/G... Apologies, I forgot to check my archived mails :(
[snip]
Anywho, back to the topic, I do not see how we could have one kind of policy for users@ and support@ and a whole different policy for factory@, python@, etc. Carlos has already explained how he does it on one list alone. So it is clearly possible. 'Policies' are a red herring - practicality is what matters.
Carlos moderates a list (a thankless job, so big thanks Carlos!). Unlike you, he is not calling for one entire mode of accessing the lists to be slammed shut. Big difference! If you want to do the latter, you will need the openSUSE board to enact and enforce a consistent policy. You cannot just say: I find it practical, so I shall shut down *all* people who use access lists in a particular way just because I feel they are a good-for-nothing minority of users. Cheers, -- Atri
On 2024-05-02 13:23, Dave Howorth wrote:
How difficult would it be for you to use a MUA?
And how difficult would it be for you simply to add another entry to your spam filters, and be done with it? As you yourself said, this sort of thing constitutes 1% or less of total traffic in these lists, so you would be doing two things: 1. saving yourself from these petty annoyances, and 2. saving the rest of us from your incessant complaints.
On Thu, 2 May 2024 14:27:33 -0600 Darryl Gregorash <raven@accesscomm.ca> wrote:
On 2024-05-02 13:23, Dave Howorth wrote:
How difficult would it be for you to use a MUA?
And how difficult would it be for you simply to add another entry to your spam filters, and be done with it? As you yourself said, this sort of thing constitutes 1% or less of total traffic in these lists, so you would be doing two things: 1. saving yourself from these petty annoyances, and 2. saving the rest of us from your incessant complaints.
I'm sorry, Carlos has already pointed out how the modertor can fix this issue very simply, so why don't you let us discuss that without making personal attacks.
On 2024-05-02 22:27, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
On 2024-05-02 13:23, Dave Howorth wrote:
How difficult would it be for you to use a MUA?
And how difficult would it be for you simply to add another entry to your spam filters, and be done with it?
Filter on: User-Agent: HyperKitty* and From: *@gmail.com and List-Id: <*.lists.opensuse.org> Of course, it will hit on legitimate users using gmail addresses. You have to whitelist them. Fritz Hudnut, Joe Salmeri, Nikolai Nikolaevskii, Bing, Andrea Ippolito, Gene Snider Thunderbird can do it. Ask me if you don't find how :-) Without the whitelist, my filter finds 41 hits. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.5 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 2024-05-03 04:45, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2024-05-02 22:27, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
On 2024-05-02 13:23, Dave Howorth wrote:
How difficult would it be for you to use a MUA? And how difficult would it be for you simply to add another entry to your spam filters, and be done with it?
<snip> Ask me if you don't find how :-)
Without the whitelist, my filter finds 41 hits.
Why are you telling *me* how to create a TBird mail filter? Did you think that perhaps, because I didn't give Dave detailed instructions on how to do it, that I didn't know how myself?
On 2024-05-03 14:38, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
On 2024-05-03 04:45, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2024-05-02 22:27, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
On 2024-05-02 13:23, Dave Howorth wrote:
How difficult would it be for you to use a MUA? And how difficult would it be for you simply to add another entry to your spam filters, and be done with it?
<snip> Ask me if you don't find how :-)
Without the whitelist, my filter finds 41 hits.
Why are you telling *me* how to create a TBird mail filter? Did you think that perhaps, because I didn't give Dave detailed instructions on how to do it, that I didn't know how myself?
No, I am telling the list, and hanging from your post, because it is you who suggest changing user mail filters. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.5 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 2024-05-02 13:37, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Thu, May 02, 2024 at 12:03:08PM +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
Today I have 5 spam messages, sent yesterday, addressed to users@lists.opensuse.org :(
They are all sent by User-Agent: HyperKitty on https://lists.opensuse.org/
I've noticed previously that pretty much all the spam I receive from this list are sent in the same way. So if it's too much to ask that the filters for this source be made stricter, can I suggest that we simply ban people from submitting mail to the list in this way?
Such traffic makes up less than 1% of the messages to the list, so we won't be losing much.
Hyperkitty is the mailinglist software.
That user-agent is the web interface to post mail to the lists. It allows people that are not subscribers to send mail if they identify with a gmail identity, for instance. I don't know if that identities can be disabled.
I would guess that either the spam bypassed our filters, or was incorrectly approved by the moderator.
I am the moderator on the Spanish mail list, and there I have solved the issue with a rule that places all email with the header User-Agent: HyperKitty under moderation. It is of course more work for the moderator. I propose that the moderator for users@lists.opensuse.org does the same. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.5 x86_64 at Telcontar)
participants (6)
-
Atri Bhattacharya -
Carlos E. R. -
Darryl Gregorash -
Dave Howorth -
Marcus Meissner -
Patrick Shanahan