My ISP Qwest (soon to be x-ISP) entered an alliance with Microsoft MSN whereby all of Qwest's 1/2 million Internet subscribers will be "transitioned" to MSN where the only POP3 email clients allowed will be MSN Explorer, Outlook, and Outlook Explorer. :-( Linux users need not apply and they are working on a solution for Mac users. If you want to know more, goto www.qwest.net and follow the links... Clint
Send this and a complaint to the DOJ and any other anti-M$ alliances. My sympathies - that sux and reeks of the kinda crap M$ is doing to kill any competition. This is Unacceptable to dislocated whole groups of users and clients in an attempt to lock up markets. Good luck and if I can help let me know. Cheers, Curtis On Wednesday 05 September 2001 07:20 pm, Clint Tinsley wrote:
My ISP Qwest (soon to be x-ISP) entered an alliance with Microsoft MSN whereby all of Qwest's 1/2 million Internet subscribers will be "transitioned" to MSN where the only POP3 email clients allowed will be MSN Explorer, Outlook, and Outlook Explorer. :-( Linux users need not apply and they are working on a solution for Mac users. If you want to know more, goto www.qwest.net and follow the links...
Clint
Looks like you're in luck, though: "Currently, the plan is to transition those customers who: Have Qwest.net Internet Access using an analog dial-up line, Qwest DSL 256, Qwest DSL Select, or Qwest DSL Deluxe connection and, Use the Windows operating system." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Anders On Thursday 06 September 2001 02.20, Clint Tinsley wrote:
My ISP Qwest (soon to be x-ISP) entered an alliance with Microsoft MSN whereby all of Qwest's 1/2 million Internet subscribers will be "transitioned" to MSN where the only POP3 email clients allowed will be MSN Explorer, Outlook, and Outlook Explorer. :-( Linux users need not apply and they are working on a solution for Mac users. If you want to know more, goto www.qwest.net and follow the links...
Clint
Anders Johansson wrote:
Looks like you're in luck, though:
"Currently, the plan is to transition those customers who:
Have Qwest.net Internet Access using an analog dial-up line, Qwest DSL 256, Qwest DSL Select, or Qwest DSL Deluxe connection and, Use the Windows operating system." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Actually, I am not in luck and will be changing providers because I want to have choices in both my choice of email clients as well as operating systems which does include a substantial investment in Linux. And I wish the DOJ would do something about it but it is not very likely. Even worse, is that a semi-regulated, once part of a monopoly itself, Qwest should be a party to this but M$ talk and MSN is "buying" the Qwest's POPs. Such is the nature of the road to Microsoft's world domination... and .net initiatives.
Anders
On Thursday 06 September 2001 02.20, Clint Tinsley wrote:
My ISP Qwest (soon to be x-ISP) entered an alliance with Microsoft MSN whereby all of Qwest's 1/2 million Internet subscribers will be "transitioned" to MSN where the only POP3 email clients allowed will be MSN Explorer, Outlook, and Outlook Explorer. :-( Linux users need not apply and they are working on a solution for Mac users. If you want to know more, goto www.qwest.net and follow the links...
Clint
Thank God for Telocity Dsl aka Direct TV Dsl, which includes a static ip!
Brandon Caudle
--------------
15yr Old Avid Unix User (HP-UX,FreeBSD,Linux)
Larkhaven Golf Course
Charlotte, NC
"There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full." -- Henry
Kissinger
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clint Tinsley"
Anders Johansson wrote:
Looks like you're in luck, though:
"Currently, the plan is to transition those customers who:
Have Qwest.net Internet Access using an analog dial-up line, Qwest DSL 256, Qwest DSL Select, or Qwest DSL Deluxe connection and, Use the Windows operating system." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Actually, I am not in luck and will be changing providers because I want to have choices in both my choice of email clients as well as operating systems which does include a substantial investment in Linux. And I wish the DOJ would do something about it but it is not very likely. Even worse, is that a semi-regulated, once part of a monopoly itself, Qwest should be a party to this but M$ talk and MSN is "buying" the Qwest's POPs. Such is the nature of the road to Microsoft's world domination... and .net initiatives.
Anders
On Thursday 06 September 2001 02.20, Clint Tinsley wrote:
My ISP Qwest (soon to be x-ISP) entered an alliance with Microsoft MSN whereby all of Qwest's 1/2 million Internet subscribers will be "transitioned" to MSN where the only POP3 email clients allowed will be MSN Explorer, Outlook, and Outlook Explorer. :-( Linux users need not apply and they are working on a solution for Mac users. If you want to know more, goto www.qwest.net and follow the links...
Clint
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
On Wednesday 05 September 2001 17:32, Anders Johansson wrote:
Looks like you're in luck, though:
"Currently, the plan is to transition those customers who:
Have Qwest.net Internet Access using an analog dial-up line, Qwest DSL 256, Qwest DSL Select, or Qwest DSL Deluxe connection and, Use the Windows operating system." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anders
On Thursday 06 September 2001 02.20, Clint Tinsley wrote:
My ISP Qwest (soon to be x-ISP) entered an alliance with Microsoft MSN whereby all of Qwest's 1/2 million Internet subscribers will be "transitioned" to MSN where the only POP3 email clients allowed will be MSN Explorer, Outlook, and Outlook Explorer. :-( Linux users need not apply and they are working on a solution for Mac users. If you want to know more, goto www.qwest.net and follow the links...
Clint
Yes, but since the only two operationg systems that Qwest supports are Windows and Mac OS, I think that those of us who use Linux are just plain out of luck, including myself. I have been using a rather bastard set-up to be able to use my Qwest access with Linux as it is, meaning that I had to install Windows on an old box that I have and use it as a gateway simply because there is no Linux driver available for my modem. I am rather looking forward to seeking a new ISP. Kevin -- Sleep is perhaps the only of life's great pleasures that need not be of short duration.
Hi: AT&T is not bad. It handles Linux hookups quite well. They have a support page for Kppp at http://www.wurd.com, which is some indication of their support for Linux users. On Wednesday 05 September 2001 08:08 pm, you wrote:
I am rather looking forward to seeking a new ISP.
Kevin
-- Cheers, Jonathan
I personally really like Earthlink. They recently added 7 extra email boxes to their standard setup (I can't think of half that many email addresses). You also get 10MB webspace on their servers for websites. They offer WebMail (http://webmail.earthlink.net) as a free extra, along with Spaminator, which is basically a mail filter, but on THEIR computers, meaning you don't have to download the message to delete it. They also offer Windows goodies like a personal firewall, I believe. They list (and advertise) privacy and anonmity as their Number One concern, and it's visible. I have yet to get a single spam message ever since hooking up over 8 months ago. You also get goodies like the ability to set up an AWAY message. Works without fail using wvdial, automatic DNS and all. When you sign up, you get emailed everything you need: CONFIGURATION SETTINGS: username : noodlez84 password : **** email address : noodlez84@earthlink.net Modem phone number: ***-***-**** login username: ELN/noodlez84 protocol: PPP IP address: dynamically assigned DNS address: 207.217.77.82 207.217.120.83 Mail POP server: mail.earthlink.net SMTP server: mail.earthlink.net NEWS server: news.earthlink.net Email is very speedy, and so is FTP access. AFAIK, they run free of MS software. Netscape-Enterprise on Solaris for earthlink.net and Apache on Solaris on home.earthlink.net . And no, I do not work for Earthlink. I'm just a satisfied customer. On 5 Sep 2001, J.Drews wrote:
AT&T is not bad. It handles Linux hookups quite well. They have a support page for Kppp at http://www.wurd.com, which is some indication of their support for Linux users.
On Wednesday 05 September 2001 08:08 pm, you wrote:
I am rather looking forward to seeking a new ISP. -- noodlez: Karol Pietrzak PGP KeyID: 0x3A1446A0
On Wednesday 05 September 2001 22:18, Karol wrote:
I personally really like Earthlink.
I agree. Earthlink works great with Linux and the service is very reliable. *************************************************** Powered by SuSE Linux 7.2 Professional KDE 2.1.2 KMail 1.2 Bryan S. Tyson bryantyson@earthlink.net ***************************************************
On Wednesday 05 September 2001 18:38, J.Drews wrote:
Hi:
AT&T is not bad. It handles Linux hookups quite well. They have a support page for Kppp at http://www.wurd.com, which is some indication of their support for Linux users.
On Wednesday 05 September 2001 08:08 pm, you wrote:
I am rather looking forward to seeking a new ISP.
Kevin
Thanks for the info. I surfed on over and found out that it is not available where I live (Seattle, Washington, USA). I might end up going with AT&T@Home and using a cable modem, but I am not sure, since I have already paid for the Intel DSL modem. I am not really left with much of a choice though, am I? I hate the thought of having my e-mail address end with "@msn.com", and a big part of the reason that I moved to Linux was to get away from that big, obnoxious software company in Redmond. Getting a better operating system than what I was using (Windows 2000) was just the frosting on the cake. Kevin -- Sleep is perhaps the only of life's great pleasures that need not be of short duration.
i use at&t@home with linux and i've been pretty happy with the service. i'd definately recommend it. my only complaint is that i do get some spam. that isn't a problem with my verizon dial-up. the installer left me with a cd-rom that only worked on windows (& maybe mac) but it was pretty easy to get it set up. hope they stay in bidnez. larry Kevin Hochhalter wrote:
On Wednesday 05 September 2001 18:38, J.Drews wrote:
Hi:
AT&T is not bad. It handles Linux hookups quite well. They have a support page for Kppp at http://www.wurd.com, which is some indication of their support for Linux users.
On Wednesday 05 September 2001 08:08 pm, you wrote:
I am rather looking forward to seeking a new ISP.
Kevin
Thanks for the info. I surfed on over and found out that it is not available where I live (Seattle, Washington, USA). I might end up going with AT&T@Home and using a cable modem, but I am not sure, since I have already paid for the Intel DSL modem. I am not really left with much of a choice though, am I? I hate the thought of having my e-mail address end with "@msn.com", and a big part of the reason that I moved to Linux was to get away from that big, obnoxious software company in Redmond. Getting a better operating system than what I was using (Windows 2000) was just the frosting on the cake.
Kevin -- Sleep is perhaps the only of life's great pleasures that need not be of short duration.
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
OK Clint, Anders and others who are interested I found something to counter this sort of activity. Go to the following web page and send in an e-mail detailing how the acquisition of Qwest by M$ is anticompetitive behavior. ================================================ Antitrust Division - United States Dept. of Justice http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/contact/newcase.htm If you have information that you want to bring to the attention of the Antitrust Division's New Case Unit, ...... .......If your comments relate specifically to the Antitrust Division's suit against Microsoft Corporation, please direct your correspondence to Microsoft.atr@usdoj.gov ================================================= On Wednesday 05 September 2001 07:32 pm, you wrote:
Looks like you're in luck, though:
"Currently, the plan is to transition those customers who:
Have Qwest.net Internet Access using an analog dial-up line, Qwest DSL 256, Qwest DSL Select, or Qwest DSL Deluxe connection and, Use the Windows operating system." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-- Cheers, Jonathan
this may sound stupid, but how are they going to keep other pop clients like kmail, netscape, eudora, pine, etc. from connecting to thier servers? I run a mail server for an isp and the pop server does not distinguish what type of client is accessing it from anything i can tell. maybe if they plan on using the microsooft pop server and its somehow hacked up to only allow ms clients to connect ot it, but i cant imagine 1/2 million people hitting a ms server of any type and it surviving for long. On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Clint Tinsley wrote:
My ISP Qwest (soon to be x-ISP) entered an alliance with Microsoft MSN whereby all of Qwest's 1/2 million Internet subscribers will be "transitioned" to MSN where the only POP3 email clients allowed will be MSN Explorer, Outlook, and Outlook Explorer. :-( Linux users need not apply and they are working on a solution for Mac users. If you want to know more, goto www.qwest.net and follow the links...
Clint
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
The same question crossed my mind. I am sure there is some Microsoft meta type identifier the can filter on and if not present, reject the email as unauthenticated. You would be able to pull your mail okay but you wouldn't be able to send. Microsoft justifies this requirement as part of their "spam" defense initiative. As far as the mail server capacity, someone told me that they actually use qmail on MSN mail servers... but this is unauthenticated as well. dog@intop.net wrote:
this may sound stupid, but how are they going to keep other pop clients like kmail, netscape, eudora, pine, etc. from connecting to thier servers? I run a mail server for an isp and the pop server does not distinguish what type of client is accessing it from anything i can tell. maybe if they plan on using the microsooft pop server and its somehow hacked up to only allow ms clients to connect ot it, but i cant imagine 1/2 million people hitting a ms server of any type and it surviving for long.
On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Clint Tinsley wrote:
My ISP Qwest (soon to be x-ISP) entered an alliance with Microsoft MSN whereby all of Qwest's 1/2 million Internet subscribers will be "transitioned" to MSN where the only POP3 email clients allowed will be MSN Explorer, Outlook, and Outlook Explorer. :-( Linux users need not apply and they are working on a solution for Mac users. If you want to know more, goto www.qwest.net and follow the links...
Clint
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
they do use qmail for hotmail or did when it was run on freebsd and not part of microsoft. i think they still do. On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Clint Tinsley wrote:
The same question crossed my mind. I am sure there is some Microsoft meta type identifier the can filter on and if not present, reject the email as unauthenticated. You would be able to pull your mail okay but you wouldn't be able to send. Microsoft justifies this requirement as part of their "spam" defense initiative. As far as the mail server capacity, someone told me that they actually use qmail on MSN mail servers... but this is unauthenticated as well.
dog@intop.net wrote:
this may sound stupid, but how are they going to keep other pop clients like kmail, netscape, eudora, pine, etc. from connecting to thier servers? I run a mail server for an isp and the pop server does not distinguish what type of client is accessing it from anything i can tell. maybe if they plan on using the microsooft pop server and its somehow hacked up to only allow ms clients to connect ot it, but i cant imagine 1/2 million people hitting a ms server of any type and it surviving for long.
On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Clint Tinsley wrote:
My ISP Qwest (soon to be x-ISP) entered an alliance with Microsoft MSN whereby all of Qwest's 1/2 million Internet subscribers will be "transitioned" to MSN where the only POP3 email clients allowed will be MSN Explorer, Outlook, and Outlook Explorer. :-( Linux users need not apply and they are working on a solution for Mac users. If you want to know more, goto www.qwest.net and follow the links...
Clint
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
To answer this and the previous, Microsoft uses SPA which is a Microsoft proprietary authentication model that allows for it to be integrated with the Windows general authentication (and does secure POP which is neat even though hard to believe from MS). As far as I know, only Microsoft clients can and do support SPA, and the server will only answer to clients that use SPA. SPA means Secure Password Authentication (at least according to the Outlook setup windows I just check). And this is how Microsoft limits the clients only to its products. On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Clint Tinsley wrote:
The same question crossed my mind. I am sure there is some Microsoft meta type identifier the can filter on and if not present, reject the email as unauthenticated. You would be able to pull your mail okay but you wouldn't be able to send. Microsoft justifies this requirement as part of their "spam" defense initiative. As far as the mail server capacity, someone told me that they actually use qmail on MSN mail servers... but this is unauthenticated as well.
dog@intop.net wrote:
this may sound stupid, but how are they going to keep other pop clients like kmail, netscape, eudora, pine, etc. from connecting to thier servers? I run a mail server for an isp and the pop server does not distinguish what type of client is accessing it from anything i can tell. maybe if they plan on using the microsooft pop server and its somehow hacked up to only allow ms clients to connect ot it, but i cant imagine 1/2 million people hitting a ms server of any type and it surviving for long.
On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Clint Tinsley wrote:
My ISP Qwest (soon to be x-ISP) entered an alliance with Microsoft MSN whereby all of Qwest's 1/2 million Internet subscribers will be "transitioned" to MSN where the only POP3 email clients allowed will be MSN Explorer, Outlook, and Outlook Explorer. :-( Linux users need not apply and they are working on a solution for Mac users. If you want to know more, goto www.qwest.net and follow the links...
Clint
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
On Thursday 06 September 2001 10:21 am, dog@intop.net wrote:
this may sound stupid, but how are they going to keep other pop clients like kmail, netscape, eudora, pine, etc. from connecting to thier servers? I run a mail server for an isp and the pop server does not distinguish what type of client is accessing it from anything i can tell. maybe if they plan on using the microsooft pop server and its somehow hacked up to only allow ms clients to connect ot it, but i cant imagine 1/2 million people hitting a ms server of any type and it surviving for long.
<judge emotion="indignant"> What? You /HAD/ to use their software? What, did they put a gun to your head and /FORCE/ you to use their software? </judge> <sucker emotion="none">yeah</sucker> <judge emotion="sucker">Oh</judge> Just more monopoly bullshit. Government won't do a thing about it. Somebody nuke Redmond, already, willya? pete
Hi Why not make an extension to Linux-email servers, that allows only modified kmail etc. to connect there, but keep the compatibility in kmail etc. to work with standard popX? This way no M$ could connect to "our" networks :-) Jaska. Viestissä Perjantai 7. Syyskuuta 2001 02:16, David Grove kirjoitti:
On Thursday 06 September 2001 10:21 am, dog@intop.net wrote:
this may sound stupid, but how are they going to keep other pop clients like kmail, netscape, eudora, pine, etc. from connecting to thier servers? I run a mail server for an isp and the pop server does not distinguish what type of client is accessing it from anything i can tell. maybe if they plan on using the microsooft pop server and its somehow hacked up to only allow ms clients to connect ot it, but i cant imagine 1/2 million people hitting a ms server of any type and it surviving for long.
<judge emotion="indignant"> What? You /HAD/ to use their software? What, did they put a gun to your head and /FORCE/ you to use their software? </judge> <sucker emotion="none">yeah</sucker> <judge emotion="sucker">Oh</judge>
Just more monopoly bullshit. Government won't do a thing about it. Somebody nuke Redmond, already, willya?
pete
On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 01:01:35PM +0300, Jaakko Tamminen wrote:
Hi
Why not make an extension to Linux-email servers, that allows only modified kmail etc. to connect there, but keep the compatibility in kmail etc. to work with standard popX?
This way no M$ could connect to "our" networks :-)
If we were to do that, then we would have to keep the source a secret. Microsoft is always free to look at the code of any open-source project.
Jaska.
-v -- Victor R. Cardona 10:37am up 13 days, 17:08, 1 user, load average: 1.00, 1.00, 0.99 Powered by SuSE Linux 7.1 (i386) 2.4.5-64GB-SMP
well, if we did that, then almost all isps (which run *nix based email servers) would not be able to serve their clients who predominantly run win95/win98 and use outlook express. On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Victor R. Cardona wrote:
On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 01:01:35PM +0300, Jaakko Tamminen wrote:
Hi
Why not make an extension to Linux-email servers, that allows only modified kmail etc. to connect there, but keep the compatibility in kmail etc. to work with standard popX?
This way no M$ could connect to "our" networks :-)
If we were to do that, then we would have to keep the source a secret. Microsoft is always free to look at the code of any open-source project.
Jaska.
-v -- Victor R. Cardona 10:37am up 13 days, 17:08, 1 user, load average: 1.00, 1.00, 0.99 Powered by SuSE Linux 7.1 (i386) 2.4.5-64GB-SMP
participants (14)
-
Anders Johansson -
Anthony Moulen -
Brandon Caudle -
Bryan Tyson -
Clint Tinsley -
Curtis Rey -
David Grove -
dog＠intop.net -
emanon -
J.Drews -
Jaakko Tamminen -
Karol Pietrzak -
Kevin Hochhalter -
Victor R. Cardona