Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

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Re: [SLE] Help with ADSL setup on...

Mike

3 Feb 2001 3 Feb '01

15:43

---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!! Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:40:06 +0100 From: Mike To: Cliff Sarginson On Saturday 03 February 2001 14:55, you wrote:

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SuSE. Not a problem. It works every time. I've done this with 6.3, 6.4, and 7.0 most recently. Either you don't know how or you are trolling. I only do copies of the 1st 2 CD's as they are usually the most used here, and I prefer to keep the originals safe.

They are not mis-statements. They are my experience of Suse over the last 2-3 years.

I will send a translated version of why the small little company I use in Holland explains why they are not allowed to copy and sell Suse CD's if you like.

No your statement was wrong and false. You stated that 'you' couldn't make a copy of the SuSE CD. That infers that you personally can't make the copy. It doesn't say that a company can't make the copy. I doubt that any company is allowed to make copies of their CD's. Most likely the reason is that there is some software on the CD's that isn't GPL. As such, it isn't allowed to be copied. I haven't purchased a copy of redhat in years, so I honestly don't know what is on their CD's. But if the 'small company' you use is allowed to copy them, I would bet there isn't any non-gpl software on them. That being said you are free to do whatever you want with the ones you purchase. Copy it like I do, so that the original doesn't get damaged. You can also install it on as many systems as you want.

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These are facts from my experience. I have no reason to make them up.

Whether or not you made them up doesn't matter. Your statement about the ability to copy the CD was wrong. On the other hand, if you would like to download the eval version, both you and your small company can copy that one until the cows come home. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 6.4, Kernel 2.2.14+ For a great linux portal try http://www.freezer-burn.org ------------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by SuSE 6.4, Kernel 2.2.14+ For a great linux portal try http://www.freezer-burn.org

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Tor Sigurdsson

3 Feb 3 Feb

16:04

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Þann laugardagur 03 febrúar 2001 15:43 skrifaðir þú:

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---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!! Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:40:06 +0100 From: Mike To: Cliff Sarginson

On Saturday 03 February 2001 14:55, you wrote:

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SuSE. Not a problem. It works every time. I've done this with 6.3, 6.4, and 7.0 most recently. Either you don't know how or you are trolling. I only do copies of the 1st 2 CD's as they are usually the most used here, and I prefer to keep the originals safe.

They are not mis-statements. They are my experience of Suse over the last 2-3 years.

I will send a translated version of why the small little company I use in Holland explains why they are not allowed to copy and sell Suse CD's if you like.

No your statement was wrong and false. You stated that 'you' couldn't make a copy of the SuSE CD. That infers that you personally can't make the copy. It doesn't say that a company can't make the copy. I doubt that any company is allowed to make copies of their CD's. Most likely the reason is that there is some software on the CD's that isn't GPL. As such, it isn't allowed to be copied. I haven't purchased a copy of redhat in years, so I honestly don't know what is on their CD's. But if the 'small company' you use is allowed to copy them, I would bet there isn't any non-gpl software on them.

That being said you are free to do whatever you want with the ones you purchase. Copy it like I do, so that the original doesn't get damaged. You can also install it on as many systems as you want.

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These are facts from my experience. I have no reason to make them up.

Whether or not you made them up doesn't matter. Your statement about the ability to copy the CD was wrong. On the other hand, if you would like to download the eval version, both you and your small company can copy that one until the cows come home.

The magic words in there were that the little company couldn't make copies and SELL them.. That wouldn't be allowed for any copies of SuSE, as the license for YAST disallows you to sell it for profit. - -- ______ /---------------------------------------\ \ | Þór Sigurðsson | Tor Sigurdsson | t | | Netmaður | Network Specialist | o | |-----------------------------------------| s | | tosi@rhi.hi.is | i | \---------------------------------------/_____/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1e-SuSE (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6fCwS6mRH+PEpr2YRAvIVAJsGAQbzc+jFt6AImr06tQgs6yx50gCgn2Hr h/BrF5J+FX2uabETa3vC5Mc= =CLCU -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Cliff Sarginson

16:17

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

On Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 04:04:32PM +0000, Tor Sigurdsson wrote:

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The magic words in there were that the little company couldn't make copies and SELL them.. That wouldn't be allowed for any copies of SuSE, as the license for YAST disallows you to sell it for profit.

I am glad you managed to understand what was obviously meant by my statement ! Yes, that is the reason. And that stinks. Cliff

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Tor Sigurdsson

16:43

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Þann laugardagur 03 febrúar 2001 16:17 skrifaðir þú:

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On Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 04:04:32PM +0000, Tor Sigurdsson wrote:

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The magic words in there were that the little company couldn't make copies and SELL them.. That wouldn't be allowed for any copies of SuSE, as the license for YAST disallows you to sell it for profit.

I am glad you managed to understand what was obviously meant by my statement ! Yes, that is the reason. And that stinks.

Cliff

Actually, it doesn't :-) Like any other software house, they are allowed to choose by themselves what license applies to the software they write on their own. If YAST had been developed by the community, and was GPL, _then_ it would stink as a skunk :-) But if this little company has a valid reason for duplicating the CD's, I think SuSE might give them permission to. Read the license that comes with YAST ( to be found in the source package of YAST, f.ex. ) and then send SuSE an e-mail with your reasoning. They are reasonable folks, and are probably willing to help - if you have a good case :-) - -tosi - -- ______ /---------------------------------------\ \ | Þór Sigurðsson | Tor Sigurdsson | t | | Netmaður | Network Specialist | o | |-----------------------------------------| s | | tosi@rhi.hi.is | i | \---------------------------------------/_____/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1e-SuSE (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6fDU06mRH+PEpr2YRAtM4AKCgLqHkB5FU/neN4xwpg6biPFBEKgCdEovA SxThS9N/h3mh0L2CEqn2Ar0= =RrvQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Cliff Sarginson

17:22

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

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Actually, it doesn't :-) Like any other software house, they are allowed to choose by themselves what license applies to the software they write on their own. If YAST had been developed by the community, and was GPL, _then_ it would stink as a skunk :-)

Yes, what stinks, is that this is the reason why the CD's cannot be distributed. It is not my company. I just find it a useful service, they work completely legally, so if they are told they cannot copy something then they dont. I am weary of this subject. I think a lot of people cannot yet jump into the quite radical view that Open Source software and all it implies brings to the party. So much of this is still seen in the same terms that Microsoft, and plenty of others, are peddling. I think with the 1500 GPL'ed software packages that Suse pay squat for and then package, it wouldn't break them to relax restrictions on yast. Cliff

Timothy R. Butler

23:00

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

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Actually, it doesn't :-) Like any other software house, they are allowed to choose by themselves what license applies to the software they write on their own. If YAST had been developed by the community, and was GPL, _then_ it would stink as a skunk :-)

Stink like a skunk if it was developed by the open source community? That is definitely FUD. Look at KDE, Linux, Apache, Perl, the GNU Project - all of these projects are open source, and they don't stink! Further more I thought that was the reason people liked Linux - it was open source and the community helped make it stable! I always assumed YaST was open source - I can't believe it's not. ALL the major distro companies have open source config tools - RedHat, Caldera, Corel, Mandrake, Debian, Slackware, Stormix - ALL of them. It's disappointing to hear that an open source company doesn't believe in opening it's own software up. -Tim ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============

Tor Sigurdsson

4 Feb 4 Feb

00:01

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Þann laugardagur 03 febrúar 2001 23:00 skrifaðir þú:

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Actually, it doesn't :-) Like any other software house, they

are allowed to

...
choose by themselves what license applies to the software they

write on their

...
own. If YAST had been developed by the community, and was GPL,

_then_ it

...
would stink as a skunk :-)

Stink like a skunk if it was developed by the open source community? That is definitely FUD. Look at KDE, Linux, Apache, Perl, the GNU Project - all of these projects are open source, and they don't stink! Further more I thought that was the reason people liked Linux - it was open source and the community helped make it stable! I always assumed YaST was open source - I can't believe it's not. ALL the major distro companies have open source config tools - RedHat, Caldera, Corel, Mandrake, Debian, Slackware, Stormix - ALL of them. It's disappointing to hear that an open source company doesn't believe in opening it's own software up.

-Tim

Please, don't read me wrong, or put words into my mouth. What I said was that if they were limiting distribution rights on an open-source package THAT would stink. They DONT. They limit distribution of their own in-house written software, and that is their own decision, and a quite reasonable one. Here is some of the YAST1 license: - READ the "*" marked lines YaST Copyright (c) 1995 - 2000 SuSE GmbH, Nuernberg (Germany) The object of this licence is the YaST (Yet another Setup Tool) program, the name YaST, together with SuSE Linux, the Linux Distribution of SuSE GmbH, all programme derived from YaST and all works or names derived in full or in part thereof together with the use, application, archiving, reproduction and passing on of YaST, all programs derived from YaST and all works derived in full or in part thereof. The YaST program and all sources is the intellectual property of SuSE GmbH within the meaning of the Copyright Law. The name YaST is a registered trademark of SuSE GmbH. In the following SuSE GmbH is the licensor and every user or processor of YaST or works derived in full or in part thereof, together with every person who reproduces, distributes or archives YaST or SuSE Linux, is the licensee of SuSE GmbH. [snip] Only this licence gives the Licensee the right to use reproduce, to distribute or to amend YaST or works derived from it. These actions are forbidden by the copyright act, if this licence is not recognised. If this licence is recognised and complied with in full, it is also valid even without the written consent of the Licensee. [snip] *3. Dissemination * It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have * been reproduced without authorisation for payment without the prior * written consent of SuSE GmbH or SuSE Linux. Distribution of * the YaST programme, its sources, whether amended or unamended in full * or in part thereof, and the works derived thereof for a charge require * the prior written consent of SuSE GmbH. [snip] - --- This most definitely states that YAST is the IP of SuSE GmbH, and not to be done with as you please. It is their choice, and as I see it, a valid point. The world does not revolve around free software, although free software is just as good ( or bad - depending on what you look at ) as commercial software. Having both gives both us and the parties involved in producing them a certain leverage. As I said, you read me completely wrong. I recommend you read slower. - -tosi

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----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============

- -- ______ /---------------------------------------\ \ | Þór Sigurðsson | Tor Sigurdsson | t | | Netmaður | Network Specialist | o | |-----------------------------------------| s | | tosi@rhi.hi.is | i | \---------------------------------------/_____/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1e-SuSE (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6fJvP6mRH+PEpr2YRAkE3AJoDc+cNISrHNl3x7Njf4/cZj6K+YwCfYwfX NeyMdAePQ5pKZmAfp4SNlrw= =z01r -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Doug McGarrett

02:44

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

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Þann laugardagur 03 febrúar 2001 23:00 skrifaðir þú:

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Actually, it doesn't :-) Like any other software house, they

are allowed to

...
choose by themselves what license applies to the software they

write on their

...
own. If YAST had been developed by the community, and was GPL,

_then_ it

...
would stink as a skunk :-)

Stink like a skunk if it was developed by the open source community? That is definitely FUD. Look at KDE, Linux, Apache, Perl, the GNU Project - all of these projects are open source, and they don't stink! Further more I thought that was the reason people liked Linux - it was open source and the community helped make it stable! I always assumed YaST was open source - I can't believe it's not. ALL the major distro companies have open source config tools - RedHat, Caldera, Corel, Mandrake, Debian, Slackware, Stormix - ALL of them. It's disappointing to hear that an open source company doesn't believe in opening it's own software up.

-Tim

Please, don't read me wrong, or put words into my mouth. What I said was

Normally I would not copy an entire message, but I do this time. I'm not sure how "browser wars" became a venue for criticizing Suse for YAST, but I must say that having a protocol that brings in money is an eminently logical step for a Linux distributor. If everybody could copy the CD's and sell them for $1.99, why would anyone buy the distro from Suse? If we would like to see Suse stay in business for a while, I'm all in favor of paying the $39.95, or whatever. I could always stay with an earlier version, if I were unwilling to pay my dues, or I could always download Debian, or FreeBSD. No, my friends, I will be happy to pay for the upgrade. All you cheapskates out there are likely to put Linux in the garbage can. I think it's worth more than $1.99. --doug, wa2say At 00:01 02/04/2001 +0000, you wrote: that

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if they were limiting distribution rights on an open-source package THAT would stink. They DONT. They limit distribution of their own in-house written software, and that is their own decision, and a quite reasonable one.

Here is some of the YAST1 license: - READ the "*" marked lines

YaST Copyright (c) 1995 - 2000 SuSE GmbH, Nuernberg (Germany)

The object of this licence is the YaST (Yet another Setup Tool) program, the name YaST, together with SuSE Linux, the Linux Distribution of SuSE GmbH, all programme derived from YaST and all works or names derived in full or in part thereof together with the use, application, archiving, reproduction and passing on of YaST, all programs derived from YaST and all works derived in full or in part thereof. The YaST program and all sources is the intellectual property of SuSE GmbH within the meaning of the Copyright Law. The name YaST is a registered trademark of SuSE GmbH. In the following SuSE GmbH is the licensor and every user or processor of YaST or works derived in full or in part thereof, together with every person who reproduces, distributes or archives YaST or SuSE Linux, is the licensee of SuSE GmbH.

[snip]

Only this licence gives the Licensee the right to use reproduce, to distribute or to amend YaST or works derived from it. These actions are forbidden by the copyright act, if this licence is not recognised. If this licence is recognised and complied with in full, it is also valid even without the written consent of the Licensee.

[snip]

*3. Dissemination * It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have * been reproduced without authorisation for payment without the prior * written consent of SuSE GmbH or SuSE Linux. Distribution of * the YaST programme, its sources, whether amended or unamended in full * or in part thereof, and the works derived thereof for a charge require

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* the prior written consent of SuSE GmbH.

[snip]

- ---

This most definitely states that YAST is the IP of SuSE GmbH, and not to be done with as you please. It is their choice, and as I see it, a valid point.

The world does not revolve around free software, although free software is just as good ( or bad - depending on what you look at ) as commercial software. Having both gives both us and the parties involved in producing them a certain leverage.

As I said, you read me completely wrong. I recommend you read slower.

- -tosi

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----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============

- -- ______ /---------------------------------------\ \ | Þór Sigurðsson | Tor Sigurdsson | t | | Netmaður | Network Specialist | o | |-----------------------------------------| s | | tosi@rhi.hi.is | i | \---------------------------------------/_____/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1e-SuSE (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE6fJvP6mRH+PEpr2YRAkE3AJoDc+cNISrHNl3x7Njf4/cZj6K+YwCfYwfX NeyMdAePQ5pKZmAfp4SNlrw= =z01r -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com

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Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

Timothy R. Butler

04:16

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

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Normally I would not copy an entire message, but I do this time. I'm not sure how "browser wars" became a venue for criticizing Suse for YAST, but I must say that having a protocol that brings in money is an eminently logical step for a Linux distributor.

Sort of, although I might note no other major distro does this, AFAIK. As I point out, if the license does indeed retrict including YaST on a CD that is sold (see below), what if RedHat had done the same? Then we wouldn't have RPM on most distros. What if Linus had done this with Linux? Well, you get the idea. I have nothing against close source software - however it seems that it is funny coming from a company that makes it's money from open source... NOTE: I'm wondering if the license really restricts including it on a CD that is sold. Perhaps it is simply saying I can't put YaST up on my site and say "Get YaST for $10!." Any word on this from SuSE?

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If everybody could copy the CD's and sell them for $1.99, why would anyone buy the distro from Suse? If we would like to see Suse stay in business for a while, I'm all in favor of paying the $39.95, or

Well... I would imagine the following would be the reasons: 1.) The $1.99 one has 1 CD, not 3 or 7 IIRC. 2.) You get absolutely no "official" support (and some people may want that) 3.) You get absolutely no "manuals." Personally, since you can download SuSE online, the key to this isn't the cost, but simply priciples. Should a company that depends on the contributions of thousands of developers, then not contribute back one of it's key components to the community. Now, before I get accused of being a RMS-style purist, let me say I don't mind close sourced software - I just wonder if Linux distro companies should be the ones producing such.

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whatever. I could always stay with an earlier version, if I were unwilling to pay my dues, or I could always download Debian, or FreeBSD. No, my friends, I will be happy to pay for the upgrade. All you cheapskates out there are likely to put Linux in the garbage can. I think it's worth more than $1.99.

Well, you are right it's worth more than $1.99 (although the steep $69 price for pro is way too much, IMO). But that is not what I'm saying. And let me say, I'm really saying way too much - I don't have a YaST license in front of me, so I can't read ever detail of it - I'm just going by snipits. However, if I start up Tim's Distro, and wanted to include YaST, and that stopped me from selling my distro, then something, IMO, is wrong. -Tim ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============

Cliff Sarginson

06:06

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

<snip>

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All you cheapskates out there are likely to put Linux in the garbage can.

You obviously have not listened or understood a single word of this discussion. That doesn't disqualify you from an opinion. However the comment I left in from your message above shows that your opinion is worthless, and this discussion is way above your head. Cliff

Jerry Kreps

13:33

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

With this thread having desended into ad-homenim attacks will someone envoke Hitler or Stalin so this thread can be ended? On Sunday 04 February 2001 00:06, Cliff Sarginson wrote:

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<snip>

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All you cheapskates out there are likely to put Linux in the garbage can.

You obviously have not listened or understood a single word of this discussion. That doesn't disqualify you from an opinion. However the comment I left in from your message above shows that your opinion is worthless, and this discussion is way above your head.

Cliff

-- "God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of people that these liberties are a gift of God? Thomas Jefferson - 1781

Cliff Sarginson

13:53

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

On Sunday 04 February 2001 14:33, Jerry Kreps wrote:

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With this thread having desended into ad-homenim attacks will someone envoke Hitler or Stalin so this thread can be ended?

Cardinal Richelieu just dropped by.. Yes it has indeed outlived it's welcome.. But like famous Female Opera Singers it will doubtless come out of retirement again soon ..lol Cliff

Timothy R. Butler

20:20

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

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With this thread having desended into ad-homenim attacks will someone envoke Hitler or Stalin so this thread can be ended?

Huh? Actually, hasn't descended into attacks, IMO. It simply is a discussion of a basic principle of open source... -Tim ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============

Konstantin (Kastus) Shchuka

06:13

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

On Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 09:44:43PM -0500, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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Normally I would not copy an entire message, but I do this time. I'm not sure how "browser wars" became a venue for criticizing Suse for YAST, but I must say that having a protocol that brings in money is an eminently logical step for a Linux distributor. If everybody could copy the CD's and sell them for $1.99, why would anyone buy the distro from Suse? If we would like to see Suse stay in business for a while, I'm all in favor of paying the $39.95, or whatever. I could always stay with an earlier version, if I were unwilling to pay my dues, or I could always download Debian, or FreeBSD. No, my friends, I will be happy to pay for the upgrade. All you cheapskates out there are likely to put Linux in the garbage can. I think it's worth more than $1.99. --doug, wa2say

Hey guys, then what linuxcentral.com is selling for $1.99? My first SuSE disks (5.3 and 6.0) were from linuxcentral.com for $1.99. And they DID contain YaST. We're definitely misunderstand something. -Kastus

Corvin Russell

06:22

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

One possible answer to the question of why other companies can sell SuSE for cheap is the very obvious one suggested by the license clause, which is that SuSE has perhaps authorized this reproduction and distribution. This thread is growing ever more pointless IMHO. I agree that there are genuine licensing issues, though I have no problem with the YaST license. But these protracted threads rarely illuminate the issues. Best, Corvin -- Corvin Russell

Timothy R. Butler

03:06

New subject: SuSE's YaST License (was RE: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!)

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in-house written software, and that is their own decision, and a quite reasonable one.

That's what I understood you to say, and to me, it seems a company who makes it's money selling open source, should make it's installer open source (under at least an OSI approved license) too. This is what every other major Linux distro company has done with their installer program, IIRC.

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*3. Dissemination * It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have * been reproduced without authorisation for payment without the prior * written consent of SuSE GmbH or SuSE Linux. Distribution of * the YaST programme, its sources, whether amended or unamended in full * or in part thereof, and the works derived thereof for a charge require * the prior written consent of SuSE GmbH.

I'm trying to figure out this "the works derived thereof for a charge" part. I wonder if that restricts including it on a CD that is charged for (i.e. copying SuSE Linux CD's for resale) - it seems to me this would not be effected by such a license (because you wouldn't be charging for YaST per se).

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This most definitely states that YAST is the IP of SuSE GmbH, and not to be done with as you please. It is their choice, and as I see it, a valid point.

It's valid, although I still think it is odd that an open source company doesn't adopt open source licenses for all of their code... I mean, if RedHat had done the same thing on their in-house software, we wouldn't be enjoying RPM like we do.

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As I said, you read me completely wrong. I recommend you read slower.

I think you will see I did understand what you meant. Best, Tim ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============

Mike

3 Feb 3 Feb

18:37

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

On Saturday 03 February 2001 17:17, you wrote:

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On Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 04:04:32PM +0000, Tor Sigurdsson wrote:

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The magic words in there were that the little company couldn't make copies and SELL them.. That wouldn't be allowed for any copies of SuSE, as the license for YAST disallows you to sell it for profit.

I am glad you managed to understand what was obviously meant by my statement ! Yes, that is the reason. And that stinks.

Perhaps.. But I wonder how places like linuxcentral.com, and linuxmall.com can do it. As I purchased SuSE 5.3 eval from them along with others. It is easily shown at http://linuxcentral.com/catalog/index.php3?cat[]=lccd. What I did find interesting is the listing at cheapbytes.com. The listed the sparc version as only being available in the U.S. and Canada. Although old, they did list 6.4 eval for $1.99. Further checking doing a search showed numerous places selling the eval CD. After several pages though, I didn't find any in the Netherlands. Did find Belgium, and the UK. Perhaps it is one of the EU rules. Or there is a royalty type fee for selling the eval. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 6.4, Kernel 2.2.14+ For a great linux portal try http://www.freezer-burn.org

Timothy R. Butler

21:52

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

YaST isn't under an opensource license? -Tim ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============

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Nick Zentena

19:10

New subject: [SLE] Fwd: Re: [SLE] Browser war hots up!!

On February 3, 2001 11:04 am, Tor Sigurdsson wrote:

...

The magic words in there were that the little company couldn't make copies and SELL them.. That wouldn't be allowed for any copies of SuSE, as the license for YAST disallows you to sell it for profit.

Why can Infomagic do it? http://www.infomagic.com/InfoMagic/InfomagicDistros Scroll down. They only list 6.4 on the website but that might just mean they are slow on updating the thing. Both versions of Yast included. This isn't the first time they have sold it either. What they don't include is some of the third party stuff that is on the pay section. Now it's most likely the evaluation version. But Yast is included. From my expierence with previous versions all the SuSE created stuff is included. Nick

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Cliff Sarginson
Corvin Russell
Doug McGarrett
Jerry Kreps
Konstantin (Kastus) Shchuka
Mike
Nick Zentena
Timothy R. Butler
Tor Sigurdsson