On 27 March 2010 12:51, C wrote:

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 13:33, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

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I have five 11.2 machines used full-time [40+ hours a week] by three people... and it has been extremely stable, performed well, and all features have worked reliably.  Kudos 11.2 - great distro.

Same here.. on 4 machines... using them full time, for work and play, all with 11.2 installed, and overall it's working very well... best openSUSE isntall in a long time!  Solid stable as a server (running http, ftp. nfs, samba), desktop, media center, game machine, and I'm running it on a netbook, and a reg laptop.

There are a few quirks (including the known annoying bugs), but in almost all cases I can attribute it to me tinkering too much.  The only real tweak I've done recently outside of a standard install (plus updates and apps from the Community repos) is on my netbook where I had to bump the kernel up to 2.6.33 to get it working "right".

No errors, no problems with Plasma... no crashes etc.

I wonder what the common factor is with the systems that are not working with 11.2?  Is it a specific bit of hardware?  A way the desktop is being used or configured?  i don't see a pattern in anything anyone has posted.... other than it fails for various random seeming reasons.

Well, I've got two desktops (at home and at the office) with openSUSE 11.2 for x86_64 with KDE 4.3.5, both very stable, no crashes, etc, so I personally am very happy with 11.2 and KDE 4.3.5. And guess what, this week I finally persuaded two colleagues at work to upgrade their openSUSE 11.1 desktops to 11.2. Now, as opposed to me, who likes to use the latest KDE/Openoffice/Mozilla from OBS repos, these guys never enable any repos but the standard update repo and maybe packman. Same hardware/model as my office desktop box. The upgrade went through very smoothly for each of them, they've installed all the latest updates from 11.2 update repo, and now both of them are now experiencing random plasma crashes, visual glitches (like virtual desktop showing an application icon when in fact there are no applications running on that virtual desktop), of XOrd/KWin consuming up to 30-40% of CPU all the time when compositing is turned on. And that's with the stable KDE 4.3.5. I do realize that if we spent enough time googling and digging through openSUSE's/Novell's/KDE's/QT's/Xorg's/name your application here/ bugzillas, we'd finally find a solution for each of these issues, but who's got the time for that when one needs to do some "real" work at the office? This randomness of end-user experience of Linux is sometime just maddening. Regards, Vadym -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

I do realize that if we spent enough time googling and digging through openSUSE's/Novell's/KDE's/QT's/Xorg's/name your application here/ bugzillas, we'd finally find a solution for each of these issues, but who's got the time for that when one needs to do some "real" work at the office? This randomness of end-user experience of Linux is sometime just maddening.

For those will "real" work to do is why there is GNOME. We are an entirely GNOME shop, and we experience no 'maddening randomness of the end-user-experience'. I don't think your experience is related to "Linux" at all, but the DTE you are installing. Seriously - just read this list for any given week. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 28 March 2010 18:02, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Adam Tauno Williams [03-28-10 11:07]:

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For those will "real" work to do is why there is GNOME.  We are an entirely GNOME shop, and we experience no 'maddening randomness of the end-user-experience'.  I don't think your experience is related to "Linux" at all, but the DTE you are installing.  Seriously - just read this list for any given week.

You DO realize that you have made a *quite* inflammatory statement with no real benefit.  All DTEs have their own particular problems.

Your statement is more fitting a "troll" endeavoring to start another DTE conflicting debate/war.

Please try to be more considerate. --

+1. At least in the past, when I did try GNOME, it appeared to have its own share of quirks as well. One comment I will make though - and please do not take it as an attempt to start a flame war, etc. It's just an observation by a somewhat jaded KDE user. I've been a faithful KDE user on SUSE Linux for almost 10 years (since SUSE Linux 7.2 probably). KDE apps served all my needs perfectly - there was no need to run non-KDE apps. Konqueror for web browsing, KMail for email, KDevelop for development, Konsole for terminal work, Amarok for music, etc. I've tried GNOME several times on both SUSE and other distros, but I always missed the configurability of the KDE desktop and the polish of SUSE KDE experience. However, I've recently noticed that while KDE remains as my primary desktop environment for both work and fun, the applications I use most have changed. When KDE 4 was first released for openSUSE, konqueror/kmail were so unstable I had to switch to Firefox & Thunderbird. When the company switched to GMail a year ago, both Firefox and Thunderbird got subsumed by Chrome. I've been a faithful KDevelop used since some 2.x release, but the instability of KDevelop 4 and lack of functionality as compared to KDevelop 3.5.x finally got to me a few months ago, and I switched to Eclipse with CDT for all my C/C++ development. The way Amarok's interface is going, I will seriously consider using Banshee soon. So at present rate, I'll be using KDE as a wallpaper switching tool only in less than a year :-( What gets me is that, put simply, while the KDE desktop itself is actually shaping up quite nicely (I quite like many of the ideas behind plasma, like widgets and even such controversial things as activities), the above mentioned GTK apps seem to offer a much better user experience than their KDE equivalents. Fewer crashes (under KDE!!!), better performance (faster, less resource usage), more features, etc. It's almost as if key KDE apps are gradually getting less features/becoming less stable/etc while the above mentioned GTK apps actually seem to improve from one release to another. Sometimes, it almost feels that there are two teams of KDE developers - one doing the desktop and another doing the apps. Again, this is not intended as an inflammatory statement. I have no intention to start a "my desktop (or my application) is better than yours" thread, so please try to stay reasonable. Regards, Vadym -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, 2010-03-27 at 07:55 -0500, Duaine Hechler wrote:

Duaine Hechler wrote:

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To all openSUSE developers:

<snip>

My brother-in-laws' machine is a old Sony VAIO with 512 MB Memory - is that the problem ?

The vaio probably not Be carefull with the 512MB though, I presume you run kde/gnome? Then never run more than one application like evolution / thunderbird / firefox or so Not all application can stand to be swapped out (timeout errors) I've got an acer-aspire-one, also with 512MB, hence i know... hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

G T Smith wrote:

BTW If you want to use Linux in a trouble free manner, do *not* go for the Sony VAIO series.. but YMMV....

That's why german people often write it as so-nie (for non-german speaking ones: translates to 'like this - never') Sorry for OT, Pit -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Will Stephenson wrote:

On Saturday 27 March 2010 06:27:02 Duaine Hechler wrote:

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Finally, is there a way to get rid of the unnecessary transparency crap - and - a way to get - by default - the desktop folder ON the desktop - and - NOT - a folder of the desktop ON the desktop?

We recognised this would be a FAQ, so the greeter dialog that shows on first run on a KDE 4 session on openSUSE 11.1 and newer links to http://help.opensuse.org/kde4/, which explains how to do both these things.

Will

-- Will Stephenson, KDE Developer, openSUSE Boosters Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex

So why was the "Folder View" changed to - not - be the default ? (Plus - It took me almost an hour to figure out how to change it) -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 dahechler@att.net www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com -- Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Duaine Hechler [03-29-10 06:24]:

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So why was the "Folder View" changed to - not - be the default ? (Plus - It took me almost an hour to figure out how to change it)

-- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 dahechler@att.net www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com -- Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years

It *is* the *default*. In your previous wandering, you must have inadvertently changed it.

KDE 4 ? -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 dahechler@att.net www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com -- Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Duaine Hechler [03-29-10 09:21]:

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Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Duaine Hechler [03-29-10 06:24]:

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...

So why was the "Folder View" changed to - not - be the default ? (Plus - It took me almost an hour to figure out how to change it)

It *is* the *default*. In your previous wandering, you must have inadvertently changed it.

KDE 4 ? Thasit!

That is funny - I did two clean installs of 11.2 and the desktop folder came up as a "folder" (with all of my old icons in the folder) on the desktop. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Duaine Hechler [03-29-10 09:55]:

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That is funny - I did two clean installs of 11.2 and the desktop folder came up as a "folder" (with all of my old icons in the folder) on the desktop.

You are correct, "Desktop" is the activity and a folder viewing the "Desktop Files" is present. And I believe the "default" is correctly chosen, but everyone has their own preference and a different preference *may* be chosen. It is linux.

THEN that gets back to my question - is to why "that way" was set to default - since the other way has been in the works for ions ? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org