[opensuse] Multilingual options, for editing and web site creation
I am on a new adventure. In my old age, I have decided to learn some extra languages (at present, French, German, and Arabic- chosen so I can read several references authored in those languages and not apparently translated into English - next year, I may add Greek, because my niece is half Greek, and it would be good to help her master that, and maybe Spanish, for no good reason other than curiousity). What I want to do, to help master these new languages, is write about topics that interest me, in English, and then translate my own work into one of the languages I am trying to learn. For example, I may take to writing book reviews for the more interesting books I have bought, and put that content on my own website (probably using Wordpress) and take advantage of one of Amazon's that can generate revenue by linking my content to products they are selling, as well as Google's adwords). The first thing I need is an editor that would facilitate this, ideally by dividing my screen into 4, containing two editors (one for English and one for the language I am studying at the time), and one for an English-'other language' dictionary, and a fourth for a grammar for that language. If this is not an editor I use by pointing Firefox at my web server, I need it to run on Suse 13.1. I am familiar with the notion of a code page, in creating web content, but I could use some guidance on what is needed in order to be able to handle multiple languages, and the peculiarities of their various scripts, on a single machine (with a US style keyboard). As the intent is to eventually post my content on the web (via my own server), the traditional word processor, such as M$ Word, may not be appropriate (the last time I looked, the HTML that M$ Word produced was horrible and very inefficient, although that was a while ago, so maybe such products have improved). The second thing I need is a way to have multilingual content on the same website, giving a visitor the ability to read both the English and the translation of it 9side by side or inter-lineal), so he or she can check the quality of the translation (and perhaps give me suggestions to help me improve my understanding of the languages I am trying to learn. I have reached out to the Wordpress forum about this, but it is low traffic and there has been no response yet. I have begun a search using Google, but the signal to noise ratio is poor (if you know of a good, efficient search string, please tell me), and I will continue to search, so suggestions for improving my search would be appreciated. I would greatly appreciate suggestions as to products to examine, and web resources that may be helpful. Thanks Ted -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ted Byers wrote:
I am familiar with the notion of a code page, in creating web content, but I could use some guidance on what is needed in order to be able to handle multiple languages, and the peculiarities of their various scripts, on a single machine (with a US style keyboard).
Write everything in UTF8 (assuming that will cover the languages you are interested in), and change your keyboard mapping according to which language you're writing. With Arabic, you may have a directional issue, afaik, Arabic is written right-to-left.
As the intent is to eventually post my content on the web (via my own server), the traditional word processor, such as M$ Word, may not be appropriate (the last time I looked, the HTML that M$ Word produced was horrible and very inefficient, although that was a while ago, so maybe such products have improved).
Any editor will do, although you'd have to add the HTML yourself. I think that's a very minor issue though.
The second thing I need is a way to have multilingual content on the same website, giving a visitor the ability to read both the English and the translation of it 9side by side or inter-lineal), so he or she can check the quality of the translation (and perhaps give me suggestions to help me improve my understanding of the languages I am trying to learn. I have reached out to the Wordpress forum about this, but it is low traffic and there has been no response yet.
Use iframes - e.g. two frames side by side. The left pulls the original document, the right one the translation. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.8°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Thanks for this, See inline: On 14-03-05 02:54 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Ted Byers wrote:
I am familiar with the notion of a code page, in creating web content, but I could use some guidance on what is needed in order to be able to handle multiple languages, and the peculiarities of their various scripts, on a single machine (with a US style keyboard). Write everything in UTF8 (assuming that will cover the languages you are interested in), and change your keyboard mapping according to which language you're writing. With Arabic, you may have a directional issue, afaik, Arabic is written right-to-left. Is there a key combination that lets me dynamically change from one keyboard mapping to another? And is there documentation somewhere that tells me what that mapping is in the case where the script includes characters and accents that do not exist on my keyboard? As the intent is to eventually post my content on the web (via my own server), the traditional word processor, such as M$ Word, may not be appropriate (the last time I looked, the HTML that M$ Word produced was horrible and very inefficient, although that was a while ago, so maybe such products have improved). Any editor will do, although you'd have to add the HTML yourself. I think that's a very minor issue though. I have been hand-writing my HTML (along with throwing in JavaScript and CSS as required) for close to 20 years, so yes, that is a minor issue. The second thing I need is a way to have multilingual content on the same website, giving a visitor the ability to read both the English and the translation of it (side by side or inter-lineal), so he or she can check the quality of the translation (and perhaps give me suggestions to help me improve my understanding of the languages I am trying to learn. I have reached out to the Wordpress forum about this, but it is low traffic and there has been no response yet. Use iframes - e.g. two frames side by side. The left pulls the original document, the right one the translation.
I am guessing that I will probably have to write my own plugin(s) to both display and edit my content, to do all I require, perhaps extending WordPress' existing editor. I wonder if such an editor can dynamically change the keyboard mapping based on the language of the document displayed in the current editor window when that window received focus? And, I guess I may have to experiment with loading free online english-'other language' dictionaries and grammars in iframes. But, don't some sites include code that prevents their pages from being loaded in an iframe (to protect copyrighted material)? I recall some experiments I did over a year ago with iframes in which some web pages just wouldn't display in my iframes no matter what I did (at least in some browsers), while my own pages did. But, developing my own plugin(s) for Wordpress means adding PHP to the list of languages I need to master (I have only a passing acquaintance with it at present). ;-) I was hoping that there were existing plugins for WordPress that would facilitate most or all of this, and that at least there'd be editors that facilitate translation from one language to another, with a couple suitable references open, such as to an English-'other language' dictionary and grammar. I would have thought something like this would already exist, at least in the EU (which has both a multitude of languages and a highly technically literate population). Oh well, if such a convenience doesn't exist, I guess I may make one. After all, while writing HTML is a no-brainer for me, I doubt there'd be an abundance of linguists/translators who could do so (or, rather, I'd expect that there'd be an abundance of authors/linguists/translators who don't have the proficiency with HTML to easily add their own HTML markup - and we mustn't forget educators who'd rather focus on teaching language skills or writing skills than on how to write good HTML markup - there is a need for such a tool of convenience and if I can't find one, then I must make one). Thanks Ted -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ted Byers wrote:
Is there a key combination that lets me dynamically change from one keyboard mapping to another? And is there documentation somewhere that tells me what that mapping is in the case where the script includes characters and accents that do not exist on my keyboard?
You might want to look at virtual keyboards. I don't know much about them but it seems that Florence for example can switch keymaps so you can 'type' in Arabic for example. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Thanks Dave, On 14-03-05 11:50 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
Is there a key combination that lets me dynamically change from one keyboard mapping to another? And is there documentation somewhere that tells me what that mapping is in the case where the script includes characters and accents that do not exist on my keyboard? You might want to look at virtual keyboards. I don't know much about
Ted Byers wrote: them but it seems that Florence for example can switch keymaps so you can 'type' in Arabic for example.
Do you know if Florence is usable on KDE? Or, to use it, would I have to switch my desktops to Gnome? Thanks Ted -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/05/2014 12:02 PM, Ted Byers pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Thanks Dave,
On 14-03-05 11:50 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
Is there a key combination that lets me dynamically change from one keyboard mapping to another? And is there documentation somewhere that tells me what that mapping is in the case where the script includes characters and accents that do not exist on my keyboard? You might want to look at virtual keyboards. I don't know much about
Ted Byers wrote: them but it seems that Florence for example can switch keymaps so you can 'type' in Arabic for example.
Do you know if Florence is usable on KDE? Or, to use it, would I have to switch my desktops to Gnome?
Thanks
Ted
You should be able to install and run Florence. When installed all dependencies should install with it. At a CLI (as root or using sudo) zypper in florence will show a summary what will be done before you answer yes to the prompt. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Thanks Ken, On 14-03-05 12:17 PM, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 03/05/2014 12:02 PM, Ted Byers pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Thanks Dave,
On 14-03-05 11:50 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
Is there a key combination that lets me dynamically change from one keyboard mapping to another? And is there documentation somewhere that tells me what that mapping is in the case where the script includes characters and accents that do not exist on my keyboard? You might want to look at virtual keyboards. I don't know much about
Ted Byers wrote: them but it seems that Florence for example can switch keymaps so you can 'type' in Arabic for example.
Do you know if Florence is usable on KDE? Or, to use it, would I have to switch my desktops to Gnome?
Thanks
Ted
You should be able to install and run Florence. When installed all dependencies should install with it. At a CLI (as root or using sudo)
zypper in florence
will show a summary what will be done before you answer yes to the prompt.
I appreciate this. I may have to install it at some point, but finding VirtualKeyboard, which is a JavaScript product I can use with TinyMCE, allows me to create my content within Wordpress, and this makes Florence unnecessary for my immediate needs. If, in time, I need to create PDF files in different languages, I'll need to use my office suite to do my editing, and that would make use of Florence necessary; but I ain't there yet. Thanks Ted -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ted Byers wrote:
Thanks for this,
See inline:
On 14-03-05 02:54 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Ted Byers wrote:
I am familiar with the notion of a code page, in creating web content, but I could use some guidance on what is needed in order to be able to handle multiple languages, and the peculiarities of their various scripts, on a single machine (with a US style keyboard). Write everything in UTF8 (assuming that will cover the languages you are interested in), and change your keyboard mapping according to which language you're writing. With Arabic, you may have a directional issue, afaik, Arabic is written right-to-left.
Is there a key combination that lets me dynamically change from one keyboard mapping to another? And is there documentation somewhere that tells me what that mapping is in the case where the script includes characters and accents that do not exist on my keyboard?
The mapping is definitely documented, google will find them for you.
The second thing I need is a way to have multilingual content on the same website, giving a visitor the ability to read both the English and the translation of it (side by side or inter-lineal), so he or she can check the quality of the translation (and perhaps give me suggestions to help me improve my understanding of the languages I am trying to learn. I have reached out to the Wordpress forum about this, but it is low traffic and there has been no response yet. Use iframes - e.g. two frames side by side. The left pulls the original document, the right one the translation.
I am guessing that I will probably have to write my own plugin(s) to both display and edit my content, to do all I require, perhaps extending WordPress' existing editor.
Writing your own would be re-inventing the wheel, there's plenty of in-browser editors out there if that's what you want. Personally I wouldn't take that approach, I would just use vi.
I wonder if such an editor can dynamically change the keyboard mapping based on the language of the document displayed in the current editor window when that window received focus?
Almost certainly not.
And, I guess I may have to experiment with loading free online english-'other language' dictionaries and grammars in iframes. But, don't some sites include code that prevents their pages from being loaded in an iframe (to protect copyrighted material)?
Yes they do. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (8.5°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Thanks for this. On 14-03-05 12:14 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Ted Byers wrote:
Thanks for this,
See inline:
Ted Byers wrote:
I am familiar with the notion of a code page, in creating web content, but I could use some guidance on what is needed in order to be able to handle multiple languages, and the peculiarities of their various scripts, on a single machine (with a US style keyboard). Write everything in UTF8 (assuming that will cover the languages you are interested in), and change your keyboard mapping according to which language you're writing. With Arabic, you may have a directional issue, afaik, Arabic is written right-to-left. Is there a key combination that lets me dynamically change from one keyboard mapping to another? And is there documentation somewhere
On 14-03-05 02:54 AM, Per Jessen wrote: that tells me what that mapping is in the case where the script includes characters and accents that do not exist on my keyboard?
The mapping is definitely documented, google will find them for you.
The second thing I need is a way to have multilingual content on the same website, giving a visitor the ability to read both the English and the translation of it (side by side or inter-lineal), so he or she can check the quality of the translation (and perhaps give me suggestions to help me improve my understanding of the languages I am trying to learn. I have reached out to the Wordpress forum about this, but it is low traffic and there has been no response yet. Use iframes - e.g. two frames side by side. The left pulls the original document, the right one the translation.
I am guessing that I will probably have to write my own plugin(s) to both display and edit my content, to do all I require, perhaps extending WordPress' existing editor. Writing your own would be re-inventing the wheel, there's plenty of in-browser editors out there if that's what you want. Personally I wouldn't take that approach, I would just use vi.
I prefer Emacs. I mentioned elsewhere in this thread that my first choice would be to find a suitable plugin or more. And, indeed, I found three, which, combined, will do most of what is needed for content creation; and there are one or tow others that might handle what I am after in terms of displaying the content. TinyMCE is a potent and reliable in-browser editor, TinyMCE Advanced language Pack adds an impressive number of languages, and VirtualKeyBoard.tinymce adds a virtual keyboard. Therefore, if they do not provide what I need for a combined translation/revision activity (where, in the course of translating something I have written, I see a useful revision for my original content, I can edit the original without leaving the translation editor), I can create a new plugin by extending one or more of these plugins, or by creating a new plugin that contains these plugins along with the addition of support for display of language references, such as dictionaries and grammars.
I wonder if such an editor can dynamically change the keyboard mapping based on the language of the document displayed in the current editor window when that window received focus? Almost certainly not. With a JavaScript virtual keyboard, this becomes irrelevant. The JavaScript virtual keyboard is a very nice product that can be used for my purposes without changing the keyboard mapping. And, I guess I may have to experiment with loading free online english-'other language' dictionaries and grammars in iframes. But, don't some sites include code that prevents their pages from being loaded in an iframe (to protect copyrighted material)? Yes they do.
This will require further investigation. Thanks. I appreciate the information you have provided. Ted -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
Dave Howorth -
Ken Schneider - openSUSE -
Per Jessen -
Ted Byers