Three SUSE 10.0 distributions: OSS, GM (== CDs from retail), and Retail DVD. I have the Retail DVD. As usual, I want additional packages (in particular, multimedia support). I want 1) a cron job with a daily check for needed updates (security and recommended) a) That cron job should already download, but doesn't need to. b) I have several machines, patches should be downloaded only once. c) I want an email with available updates. I want the email only _if_ there are updates. (I.e., I want something like apticron from Debian, optionally plus downloads :-) 2) a command to install all outstanding patches. I have to decide 1) which package repositories do I use? 2) which package management method do I use? Possibilities for repositories that I know about: -- Official YOU SUSE-Servers. But: Do they also hold updates for all packages from the retail DVD? There is a directory 10.0-OSS that is a symlink to 10.0. Is that because all OSS updates are in that directory, or because it contains /only/ OSS updates? -- Various servers, as explained in ttp://www.opensuse.org/YaST_package_repository In particular, -- Packman for multimedia stuff, -- maybe Guru or usr-local-bin -- any repositories that have specialized and that I should be aware of? -- apt repositories -- gwdg -- which else? -- smart repositories. which? Package management method: -- YOU: various servers, as outlined above -- apt: several repositories, and I don't understand their state. -- Do all security updates arive at usual apt repositories like gwdg's? All recommended updates? -- Do repositories with multimedia packages exist for apt? -- I like upt from my Debian systems, where it is a smooth experience (using apticron et.al.). Is this the same for SUSE? -- smart: I read in this mailing list that YOU and apt will be abandoned for smart. Should I switch now to a smart repository? Which are available? As you've seen, I have quite some questions, even though I researched on opensuse.org and Google. Still, I don't know the best strategy for 1. which repository to choose? 2. which update method to use= Maybe someone on this list can help me. TIA, Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany
On Sat, Oct 29, 2005 at 03:58:34AM +0200, Joachim Schrod wrote:
Three SUSE 10.0 distributions: OSS, GM (== CDs from retail), and Retail DVD. I have the Retail DVD. As usual, I want additional packages (in particular, multimedia support).
I want
1) a cron job with a daily check for needed updates (security and recommended) a) That cron job should already download, but doesn't need to. b) I have several machines, patches should be downloaded only once. c) I want an email with available updates. I want the email only _if_ there are updates. (I.e., I want something like apticron from Debian, optionally plus downloads :-)
2) a command to install all outstanding patches.
Start YOU. Press "Automatic Download of Patches" Button. Follow Dialog. If there is need you can do your own cron jobs with "online_update" command line tool. See man online_update. For the rest you need to understand that YOU only provides updates in regards to bug or security fixes. They only come from the official YOU SUSE Servers. Additional package sources are different and explained on opensuse.org like you found. Ciao, Marcus
Marcus Meissner wrote: Thanks for your answer. But it shows that my question was not formulated good enough. (Maybe I shouldn't write emails as late as 4am... :-)
For the rest you need to understand that YOU only provides updates in regards to bug or security fixes. They only come from the official YOU SUSE Servers.
Additional package sources are different and explained on opensuse.org like you found.
I know the technology. That's why I asked for the _strategy_. I.e., I don't want to know how I _do_ updates, but I want to know about experiences how others _approach_ the _task_ of updates. Process, not procedures. The preposition is that additional package repositories are used. (I don't think one has to discuss this at length, two words suffice: MP3 and DVD.) What do other people use? YOU? apt? How about smart? What are their experiences? Does it just work? Where are the pitfalls? E.g., -- If they use apt4rpm repositories, are all security updates also in those apt repositories? -- If they use apt, is apticron available? I haven't seen a package for it. -- Do they use two different update processes, one for SUSE packages and one for others? If they use two processes, how do they handle conflicts? -- Do SUSE package repositories hold _all_ necessary updates; also for the commercial packages that are only on the retail DVD? If no, where do I get updates for them? But since you write:
Start YOU. Press "Automatic Download of Patches" Button. Follow Dialog.
If there is need you can do your own cron jobs with "online_update" command line tool. See man online_update.
some comments on online_update. First, # man online_update No manual entry for online_update A man page would be nice. Perhaps you might want to open an internal ticket that one gets written... ;-) For information, one has to fall back on online_update -h. And that doesn't explain that there seems to be three modes: `download or apply patches' with -g and -i, `show patches' with -s and -d, and `check updates' with -q and -k. The differences between those modes are slightly unclear, in particular between the first and the second. After all, -s downloads and applies patches as well. As I wrote, I don't want to apply patches automatically, since I want to know when I have to restart applications. I.e., I want an email that I shall install patches and another command to do so. I have to say that your explanation doesn't supply a solution for this demand. yast installs a cron job with online_update -g -P. Fine, but that doesn't output that there are patches to apply. I.e., no email is sent. The patches are downloaded, but that's all. Frankly, without notification online_update -g is worthless -- it's nice that the patch is downloaded, but no admin action is triggered. This is not a supported update process. In the past, I used online_update -s -d | grep INSTALL. That's because I want the email _only_ when I have to do something and not every day. It would be nice if online_update would have an explicit and supported method to supply such an you-have-to-do-something email, like apticron in Debian has. The command above has the risk that INSTALL lines are not the only ones that I want to look at. When I'm switching to 10.0 now, I have to investigate first the output of online_update -s -d and see if it hasn't changed. And that's bad, quite honestly -- in Debian I don't have to do such work myself. Just some thoughts for improving the SUSE-technology of online updates. :-) I am using SUSE since 5.1 (I'm a paying subscriber), and I think it's said that the update technology still has its sharp corners that hurt users and where better solutions exist in other distributions. Cheers, Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:48:45 +0200 Joachim Schrod
I know the technology. That's why I asked for the _strategy_.
In this world of ever increasing entropy and chaos (and unexpected software bugs), is it reasonable to talk about "strategy" ? My own preference is to apply updates as soon as they are available -- my personal livelihood is NOT going to be impacted if I have to spend time to "fix" a computer problem created by "early adoption".
What do other people use? YOU? apt? How about smart?
* YOU -- I've been using this through YaST, in the belief that it is the "official" SuSE fix distribution mechanism. Once upon a time, YOU offered to fetch the SAME packages as I had already gotten with apt. That seems fixed now. But currently, it is offering (10.0) to fetch some packages that __it itself__ is identifying as 'older' than the installed versions. Go figure. Disadvantage: As delivered by SuSE, YOU only "sees" the packages that SuSE itself has set up. [I like it that my YaST gives me the choice of "ignore dependency conflicts" for, say, the delete of a package. I can do what I wanted, and fix up dependencies later.] * apt -- this has been my mainstay for fetching additional packages, and upgrades to non-SuSE packages. I do NOT have any "bleeding edge" components in my sources.list. I periodically view (with a browser) the sites which I access with apt. That lets me know, for example, that recently 10.0 added apt access to the kde and gnome components, while 9.0 removed apt access to a separate kde component. Disadvantage: If *any* kind of dependency conflict exists on my system, my apt won't go on. Then I have to laboriously solve the problem before I can proceed with what I wanted. [I have not used Synaptic on SuSE. On Ubuntu, its Synaptic lets me bypass an existing conflict for the time being.] * smart -- having read in this list that 'smart' is the future, I'm now trying it out. So far, so good. One thing I like about smart is that the GUI can show __all__ the versions available at all the specified depositories - so I can make an informed selection. Of course, asking for that much information can quickly lead to mental overload. Disadvantage: One more thing to be learned, when what I had been doing previously seemed adequate to my needs. Haven't used 'smart' enough to discover the pitfalls. mikus
Hi, I have this in a file named /etc/cron.d/YOUmirror: # Everyday at 4:35 am runs rsync to synchronize the update directories from # (one of) the master YOU servers: 35 4 * * * root /usr/bin/rsync --recursive --links --perms --owner --group --devices --delete --delete-excluded --force --compress --verbose --exclude=/rpm/ppc/ --exclude=/rpm/ppc64/ --exclude=/rpm/x86_64/ --exclude=*.ppc.delta.rpm --exclude=*.ppc64.delta.rpm --exclude=*.x86_64.delta.rpm rsync://mirrors.kernel.org/suse/i386/update/10.0/ /srv/www/htdocs/suse/i386/update/10.0/ Of course, I also have apache2 installed. From this directory (using HTTP) my local machine can update with YOU, and any other machines in my local network. Note that since I'm using i386 as an architecture, I'm blocking other "ports." Best regards, Carlos. -- <nick> grah windows just crashed again, unstable crap. <yukito> Windows isn't unstable, it's just spontaneous.
participants (4)
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Carlos A. Carnero Delgado
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Joachim Schrod
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Marcus Meissner
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mikus@bga.com