This has nothing to do with suse but we have beaten the html coding topic thread to death; so here is a new one!! 1. I am currently working on a website and I would like it to look good in netscape and ie; is there an acceptable list of fonts that I can expect all clients to have? I do not like the stock fonts but don't want to be too creative and use a font most people do not have! For example, is Garamond a valid font face name for suse/redhat/mandrake/<your favourite distro here> ? 2. I am creating my website in dreamweaver. I was surprised to find it has _no_ templates! I have to come up with my own combinations of pleasant & readable colors... I do not have the skills to do this. Is there any way I can get good site templates for color combinations/layout starting points?? TIA. ps. I will have a lynx optimized version; this is for the graphics version! regards, Adi Gadwale. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
On Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 03:07:25PM -0500, Adi Gadwale wrote:
This has nothing to do with suse but we have beaten the html coding topic thread to death; so here is a new one!!
1. I am currently working on a website and I would like it to look good in netscape and ie; is there an acceptable list of fonts that I can expect all clients to have? I do not like the stock fonts but don't want to be too creative and use a font most people do not have! For example, is Garamond a valid font face name for suse/redhat/mandrake/<your favourite distro here> ?
You clearly don't understand HTML. HTML is not for creating fancy pages with colors/layout... HTML is for describing the CONTENT of the information. Look at http://www.w3c.org/ for more information about HTML and CSS. You can't expect anything about the browsers of your clients. They can be text, graphic, voice (all text will be spoken), etc. You don't know if they use 2, 16, 256 ot 16M colors, etc. You don't know if the resolution is 40x25, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, etc. The ONLY thing you may expect is that the browser will parse HTML. With CSS you can specify a font to use.
2. I am creating my website in dreamweaver. I was surprised to find it has _no_ templates! I have to come up with my own combinations of pleasant & readable colors... I do not have the skills to do this. Is there any way I can get good site templates for color combinations/layout starting points??
TIA.
ps. I will have a lynx optimized version; this is for the graphics version!
Nonsence. For layout and colors use CSS and you can use the same pages with Netscape and Lynx. The best advice I can give you is: use an ASCII-editor and create the pages by hand. If you do this, you will learn the basics about HTML. HTML is quite easy to learn. Regards, Cees. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Cees van de Griend tapped away at the keyboard with:
On Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 03:07:25PM -0500, Adi Gadwale wrote:
This has nothing to do with suse but we have beaten the html coding topic thread to death; so here is a new one!!
1. I am currently working on a website and I would like it to look good in netscape and ie; is there an acceptable list of fonts that I can expect all clients to have? I do not like the stock fonts but don't want to be too creative and use a font most people do not have! For example, is Garamond a valid font face name for suse/redhat/mandrake/<your favourite distro here> ?
You clearly don't understand HTML. HTML is not for creating fancy pages with colors/layout... HTML is for describing the CONTENT of the information.
Well put.
Look at http://www.w3c.org/ for more information about HTML and CSS.
You can't expect anything about the browsers of your clients. They can be text, graphic, voice (all text will be spoken), etc. You don't know if they use 2, 16, 256 ot 16M colors, etc. You don't know if the resolution is 40x25, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, etc.
The ONLY thing you may expect is that the browser will parse HTML.
With CSS you can specify a font to use.
CSS can *suggest* a font. The browser may substitute/ignore what CSS suggests.
2. I am creating my website in dreamweaver. I was surprised to find it has _no_ templates! I have to come up with my own combinations of pleasant & readable colors... I do not have the skills to do this. Is there any way I can get good site templates for color combinations/layout starting points??
TIA.
ps. I will have a lynx optimized version; this is for the graphics version!
For layout and colors use CSS and you can use the same pages with Netscape and Lynx.
The best advice I can give you is: use an ASCII-editor and create the pages by hand. If you do this, you will learn the basics about HTML.
HTML is quite easy to learn.
If you need help: "HTML4 for Dummies". -- Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning Perth, Western Australia -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
On Tue, Jun 06, 2000 at 09:37:01AM +0800, bernie@innovative.iinet.net.au wrote:
This has nothing to do with suse but we have beaten the html coding topic thread to death; so here is a new one!! <cut> You clearly don't understand HTML. HTML is not for creating fancy pages with colors/layout... HTML is for describing the CONTENT of the information. Well put.
Tnx.
Look at http://www.w3c.org/ for more information about HTML and CSS. <cut> The ONLY thing you may expect is that the browser will parse HTML. With CSS you can specify a font to use. CSS can *suggest* a font. The browser may substitute/ignore what CSS suggests.
You're right offcoure. I spoke in haste. I should probably apologize to the original writer for the tone of my message. This is a sensitive matter for me. At my work I'm trying to educate my co-workers on this subject. Regards, Cees. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Cees van de Griend wrote:
You're right offcoure. I spoke in haste.
I should probably apologize to the original writer for the tone of my message.
This is a sensitive matter for me. At my work I'm trying to educate my co-workers on this subject.
I think you (and the others) made some very valid points. HTML is not a graphical design agent. It is what its' name suggests, a HyperText Mark-up Language - it is designed to control the layout of text elements on a page. The ONLY way to learn to use ANY language, is to start with the basics, in this case, a ASCII or text editor. Learn the hard(er) way before you start taking shortcuts. Then you will be able to circumvent the limitations of the shortcut methods. As for backgrond colours, I prefer (if black on white is not suitable) to use a very pale background, and black text. If in doubt, get someone who is a) not on drugs, b) not a self-styled "graphic artist", c) has no knowledge whatsoever of "the web" and get them to look at your page. If they don't like it, don't use it! -- Regards Don Hansford ECKYTECH COMPUTING Surfing the Net (without crashing) With SuSE 6.4 Linux (Thanx Linus!) "Microsoft democratised the computer market and served as a catalyst in making computers available to everybody. Later, however, they did as many revolutionaries do -- they became dictators. History has taught us the inevitable fate of dictators." -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
There has been a lot of harsh opinions expressed on this topic. To those that like to be informative with statements like 'It is obvious you don't know anything about html', please, do not feel compelled to reply to messages. HTML has it's limitations; it is only a text markup language and a subset of SGML. That is a fault of the standards and will be amended in time. However, HTML can be pushed to make very visually appealing cross platform site (if you do not know think there are any _really cool sites_, please search slashdot.org for 'site design' and 'sites under 5k'). So why not push the boundaries and create sites with excellent content; layout; format and interactivity? I agree that such a site would not be visible in some browsers (lynx; emacs w3 etc.) so what? It would be arrogant to assume that any site would appeal to all audiences. What if I am authoring a site about the finer aspects of graphic design? It caters to a different audience! A mac enthusiasts web site does not have to be visible in a cell phone browser. A gnome support web site does not have to be visible in Internet Explorer! On the questions of web safe colors: It takes humility to say I am a coder, a computer geek, not a graphic artist what are the rules for color visibility? For those that reply 'get a friend to look at it' or 'if you can't tell colors maybe you should not use them'; it's about colors being dithered and substituted accross platforms and rendering pages unreadable. FYI: Dreamweaver only lets you chose colors from a default pallet of ~200 colors that are guaranteed to look similar accross platforms and browsers. If you want a different color you have to *specifically* choose it from a different pallet. Also, it makes sense to write an html page by hand; not an entire site! Like somebody on this list previously stated, linux is free only if your time is worth nothing! Dreamweaver comes bundled with excellent site management tools. Try adding an extra navigation button to 50 pages in vi! I like vi as much as the next guy but I would rather design my web pages in Dreamweaver and do my java coding in emacs-jde-mode. It's all about choice and using the best tool for the job! I apologize if I have offended anybody; my aim is only to express my opinion; I have known to be wrong before. regards, Adi Gadwale. On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Don Hansford wrote:
Cees van de Griend wrote:
You're right offcoure. I spoke in haste.
I should probably apologize to the original writer for the tone of my message.
This is a sensitive matter for me. At my work I'm trying to educate my co-workers on this subject.
I think you (and the others) made some very valid points.
HTML is not a graphical design agent. It is what its' name suggests, a HyperText Mark-up Language - it is designed to control the layout of text elements on a page.
The ONLY way to learn to use ANY language, is to start with the basics, in this case, a ASCII or text editor. Learn the hard(er) way before you start taking shortcuts. Then you will be able to circumvent the limitations of the shortcut methods. As for backgrond colours, I prefer (if black on white is not suitable) to use a very pale background, and black text. If in doubt, get someone who is a) not on drugs, b) not a self-styled "graphic artist", c) has no knowledge whatsoever of "the web" and get them to look at your page. If they don't like it, don't use it! --
Regards Don Hansford ECKYTECH COMPUTING Surfing the Net (without crashing) With SuSE 6.4 Linux (Thanx Linus!) "Microsoft democratised the computer market and served as a catalyst in making computers available to everybody. Later, however, they did as many revolutionaries do -- they became dictators. History has taught us the inevitable fate of dictators."
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Adi Gadwale tapped away at the keyboard with:
However, HTML can be pushed to make very visually appealing cross platform site (if you do not know think there are any _really cool sites_, please search slashdot.org for 'site design' and 'sites under 5k'). So why not push the boundaries and create sites with excellent content; layout; format and interactivity?
That's OK as long as you remain within the boundaries.
I agree that such a site would not be visible in some browsers (lynx; emacs w3 etc.) so what? It would be arrogant to assume that any site would appeal to all audiences. What if I am authoring a site about the finer
It would IMHO be arrogant to assume that all those who might be interested in my site would be using I browser I've known and tested.
aspects of graphic design? It caters to a different audience! A mac
A graphic-design site could support text-only browsers by putting crucial content into downloadable images in a portable format. After all; a graphic designer knows (or should know) that their creations are going to look like crap on a significant proportion of browsers/settings.
enthusiasts web site does not have to be visible in a cell phone browser.
A Mac user doesn't always carry around the Mac. WAP-ability might be important if they are tracking Mac-related news for example.
A gnome support web site does not have to be visible in Internet Explorer!
That would be presumptuous, IMHO. However, it would be foolish to rely on browser-specific features unless your aim is to gates the visitors!
Also, it makes sense to write an html page by hand; not an entire site! Like somebody on this list previously stated, linux is free only if your time is worth nothing! Dreamweaver comes bundled with excellent site management tools. Try adding an extra navigation button to 50 pages in vi!
I believe that I'm not alone in using vi as a tool for generating templates and content; then applying a set of (shell) tools to generate a large number of pages. Having altered the template, (or contents) it takes only seconds to regenerate pages with the changed features. That's all that was necessary to change over 300 pages. Accessability validation can take about half an hour. Such an environment is not for everybody. You might be comfortable with it if you have a few years' experience with Unix tools and have the tool-building mindset encouraged by Unix. Others prefer to crack open the shrink-wrap and just trust the package to do what they want. Still others tread the ground in-between.
I like vi as much as the next guy but I would rather design my web pages in Dreamweaver and do my java coding in emacs-jde-mode.
It's all about choice and using the best tool for the job!
Which requires knowing how to use *all* the tools; an impossibility.
I apologize if I have offended anybody; my aim is only to express my opinion; I have known to be wrong before.
Nobody is absolutely right, all the time. -- Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning Perth, Western Australia -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
On Mon, 05 Jun 2000, Adi Gadwale wrote:
This has nothing to do with suse but we have beaten the html coding topic thread to death; so here is a new one!!
1. I am currently working on a website and I would like it to look good in netscape and ie; is there an acceptable list of fonts that I can expect all clients to have? I do not like the stock fonts but don't want to be too creative and use a font most people do not have! For example, is Garamond a valid font face name for suse/redhat/mandrake/<your favourite distro here> ?
tick with standard fonts, such as Arial, Helvetica, etc
2. I am creating my website in dreamweaver. I was surprised to find it has _no_ templates! I have to come up with my own combinations of pleasant & readable colors... I do not have the skills to do this. Is there any way I can get good site templates for color combinations/layout starting points??
If you cant pick colors, you dont need a webpage, you need a book about design :)
TIA.
ps. I will have a lynx optimized version; this is for the graphics version!
regards,
Adi Gadwale.
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
-- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jon Tillman Tillman Development DASH Systems, Inc Louder Faster, Inc Boone, NC USA ICQ: 4015362 kabalist@bmeworld.com tillmanj@dashsystems.com http://www.geocities.com/kabalist http://www.bmeworld.com/kabalist -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/TW d--- s: a23 C++ UL+++>$ P+ L+++ E- W++>$ N++ o K++ w--- O- M--V PS++ PE Y+ PGP++ t--- 5-- X- R+ tv+ b++++ DI+ D++ G++ e h---/h r++ y++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org mQGiBDkowFoRBACkiW0W9Zt2aTJbNmFxStaOrGT2hDM6mIXYStECUclkox7B9o17 5g5cJRTiNZ68QEo4wQLS32EZIh1ll3K9CBHRzs2oGxPJyciv8jcSYhx8Y+/KHzLG HsMPRGKsbFJbrwlQ6zGPD6Xc4eHraK7QeHP+FKJyAWnAGM0wY4+cvkmZbwCgtM/p 4hzbeFs4bBnsb9oqOjNGOgUEAJaCAkTRJKTeWWI3eE9DtvNIU9jjuaFHnAFgli8G 32KJwyhBXeHMoWwYGVyXwQYhkAg7ii5p23JYqkZG7nXuEuykXEk9gJ2jRX7M7fem vhdrjJy2TRgqw8NeDfG18HNETahHdCrOXJqkOQ+ise0GfJ2TbooT8ORFr5A57hFQ 3U+FA/sGFG0T+Zm498V4IJwHJ+m0zDTgShxIJPRqE+2Q9hE1C5FbX5muPNBII73w Gwck1Zad99l9woNqxDwV62VoePRDCIcsLZrCBYX2SIWrtHI8XKADgHrfCYIfE+Tk C+H6H8a0uh7zuYETOsQZl4sKQ7B7MqrAMosw2AYNk1LiB7FQy7QjSm9uIFRpbGxt YW4gPGthYmFsaXN0QGJtZXdvcmxkLmNvbT6IVgQTEQIAFgUCOSjAWgQLCgQDAxUD AgMWAgECF4AACgkQkDAOuvhcjIUTQgCfW4GieE/YIyymPlxfnttJgg5nt50AoLK6 hHLlm5Sid/cCP6chqNPYGHWwuQENBDkowGUQBADVyW2s8+sjZoWGduEYlGrCZfIk LzQiuScJCzE+ZoAODn+kQSEMZ94IJhKEtLWhf45LcWbCMtojprBJNP0rPS8cDxZM g1PPxFIJoDLgJqKzMj0idNGPU8NdjhqcrllwIGptZz6NUOxxv0KGntjW4HUtSxLt WTgZCIYe0T5bA7fEfwADBQQAjctHQuMI3+l/BUXKY0c2KKF0Yqz7DITlrvRqPCLA GckujjTZLyZiUB3zmab8VyCKhPGLXMFBts6O4x7JBI2+iSRxS+uSBr37T2Trls7b Poo8rBHm4K1b+GQ4Qg+g9IX1cvee9q8RpjKAzOQz5S69H1RLvrWH7Kni8CV4E207 U2SIRgQYEQIABgUCOSjAZQAKCRCQMA66+FyMhQOrAJ4wFqINei1cKqyxAPcfV1Zy 8uKm+ACeJ+bN+lUFzLYrCtL/yknGc9xgx0A= =Z7rZ -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
1. I am currently working on a website and I would like it to look good in netscape and ie; is there an acceptable list of fonts that I can expect all clients to have? I do not like the stock fonts but don't want to be too creative and use a font most people do not have! For example, is Garamond a valid font face name for suse/redhat/mandrake/<your favourite distro here> ?
Most graphical browsers support style sheets now. These allow your first preference of font while allowing graceful step down to an available font. See examples which follow and then find some full examples of style sheet use on the web. Search www.google.com for CSS or cascading style sheet tutorials. ------> stylesht.css starts here BODY { FONT: Times New Roman, Times, serif; COLOR: #000000 } A:LINK, A:VISITED, A:ACTIVE TEXT-DECORATION: NONE; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, san serif } A:LINK { COLOR: #003399 } A:VISITED { COLOR: #003399 } A:ACTIVE { COLOR: #0066FF } H1.TITLE FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman, Times, serif; COLOR: #003399; } ... ------> index.htm this sample web page invokes the style sheet above <HEAD> <TITLE>Your Title</TITLE> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <LINK REL="stylesheet" TYPE="text/css" HREF="stylesht.css"> </HEAD> <BODY> ...
2. I am creating my website in dreamweaver. I was surprised to find it has _no_ templates! I have to come up with my own combinations of pleasant & readable colors... I do not have the skills to do this. Is there any way I can get good site templates for color combinations/layout starting points??
You might try visiting some graphics design sites like www.adobe.com for tutorials on color use and good design examples. If you are concerned about picking so called "web safe" colors, pick colors whose RGB components are integral multiples of 33 hex. For example: With the color format #RRGGBB use 00, 33, 66, 99, CC or FF in place of RR (red), GG (green) and BB (blue). For hex challenged software like PhotoShop 4 and earlier, that would be multiples of 51 or: 0, 51, 102, 153, 204 and 255. This works for the original Netscape "web safe" palette but not some newer "web safe" sets. So "web safe" color is kind of a relative concept - maybe "web safe anything?" Experiment to find what you like with colors. Try matching color schemes you find on the web by trial and error to learn how to manipulate RGB color values. Also, Lynda Weinman has a good video on Dreamweaver that might be useful to you - www.lynda.com Hope this is useful to you. Ed -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
On Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 03:07:25PM -0500, Adi Gadwale wrote:
1. I am currently working on a website and I would like it to look good in netscape and ie; is there an acceptable list of fonts that I can expect all clients to have? I do not like the stock fonts but don't want to be too creative and use a font most people do not have! For example, is Garamond a valid font face name for suse/redhat/mandrake/<your favourite distro here> ?
`fixed' and `proportional' ;) -- -=|JP|=- "Why, oh, why didn't I take the blue pill?" Jon Pennington | Atipa Linux Solutions -o) jpennington@atipa.com | http://www.atipa.com /\\ Kansas City, MO, USA | 816-595-3000 x1550 _\_V 6D04 39E0 CAE9 9ADA 2CA3 2EBE 898A 6C37 CA1E A29C -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
participants (8)
-
adi＠gadwale.com -
ag1＠cec.wustl.edu -
bernie＠innovative.iinet.net.au -
cees-list＠griend.xs4all.nl -
donh＠halenet.com.au -
edscott＠worldnet.att.net -
jpennington＠atipa.com -
kabalist＠www.bmeworld.com