Re: [opensuse] Open Source Graphics Cards
Sloan wrote:
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
installing an Nvidia driver on your computer doesn't violate the GPL.
But Nvidia's closed-source driver DOES violate it.
In other words, you're not the criminal, Nvidia is.
Nobody's ever explained to me how that can be.
By the terms of the GPL If you're not distributing the code, you are not required you to provide a source for it. nVidia IS distributing code, therefore they are required to provide source for it.
They have tried, but their answers make no sense, and fall apart as soon as you take a close look.
I don't see what good this witch hunt can do -
1. nvidia makes video cards. 2. they write drivers for those cards, for windoze, solaris, freebsd and linux 3. the linux license nazis scream "lawbreaker!" 4. nvidia say "fine, these linux nuts are too much trouble to deal with. no more linux drivers" 5. the linux license nazis high five each other and do a victory dance 6. linux users are stuck with crappy graphics 7. fade to black
Yeah. The big problem is that these and other hardware makers seem to think that they're in the business of selling software, and treat the specs for writing a driver as if they are the gravest of all military secrets. They need to pull their heads out of their asses. Anybody competent in the art of designing graphics cards, gpus, and programming the firmware already knows what's going on -- in fact, we (the computer engineering field) had most of this stuff worked out 20-30 years ago -- and we're STILL primarily waiting for the technology to catch up. The only secrets are the precise format of the data being written to/read from the graphics cards. And all it does is make the vendors look like paranoid assholes.
Joe
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Sloan wrote:
They have tried, but their answers make no sense, and fall apart as soon as you take a close look. I don't see what good this witch hunt can do - 1. nvidia makes video cards. 2. they write drivers for those cards, for windoze, solaris, freebsd and linux 3. the linux license nazis scream "lawbreaker!"
"Nazis"? Ugh, have we already sunk that low in this thread? What would you call a company that took legal action against another company that was violating the copyright license for source code it had created? Ok, so why is it any different when an individual developer does the same thing? Actually, if you look closely, a large majority of the copyright owners of the Linux kernel today are very big companies, with lots of very good lawyers. If you want to go up against IBM, Intel, HP, Novell, Red Hat, and other legal teams, fine, go violate the copyright of the Linux kernel, for all of these companies have publically stated that it is a violation of the license that the Linux kernel was released under to distribute closed source Linux kernel drivers. Are you calling those companies "Nazis" now? So sad, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
linux 3. the linux license nazis scream "lawbreaker!"
Sloan, Dont like the GPL? Dont use the GPL software. Regards Marcio -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Druid wrote:
linux 3. the linux license nazis scream "lawbreaker!"
Sloan,
Dont like the GPL? Dont use the GPL software.
Sorry, Mr Kulkis edited and forwarded a PM to the list which might have given you the wrong idea. At any rate, I will stop using linux when you pry it from my cold dead fingers ;) Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Greg KH wrote:
Sloan wrote:
They have tried, but their answers make no sense, and fall apart as soon as you take a close look. I don't see what good this witch hunt can do - 1. nvidia makes video cards. 2. they write drivers for those cards, for windoze, solaris, freebsd and linux 3. the linux license nazis scream "lawbreaker!"
"Nazis"? Ugh, have we already sunk that low in this thread?
Apologies, this snippet was part of a private reply to Mr Kulkis who sent me a PM about the nvidia module, then forwarded my personal reply to the list, looking to generate controversy I suppose. I would have been much more careful in my choice of words had I known it was destined to be broadcast.
What would you call a company that took legal action against another company that was violating the copyright license for source code it had created?
Sigh. Nvidia had been writing drivers for its cards for some time when they started supporting linux as well. So clearly, the binary nvidia driver is not a derivation of the linux kernel. They also supply a linux-specific "shim" which provides an interface between the linux kernel and the nvidia binary blob, and they provide the source of that linux specific shim in the download. Seriously, where's the crime? Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 10:28:14AM -0800, Sloan wrote:
Greg KH wrote:
Sloan wrote:
They have tried, but their answers make no sense, and fall apart as soon as you take a close look. I don't see what good this witch hunt can do - 1. nvidia makes video cards. 2. they write drivers for those cards, for windoze, solaris, freebsd and linux 3. the linux license nazis scream "lawbreaker!"
"Nazis"? Ugh, have we already sunk that low in this thread?
Apologies, this snippet was part of a private reply to Mr Kulkis who sent me a PM about the nvidia module, then forwarded my personal reply to the list, looking to generate controversy I suppose. I would have been much more careful in my choice of words had I known it was destined to be broadcast.
Ah, that wasn't very nice of Mr. Kulkis to do, apology accepted.
Sigh. Nvidia had been writing drivers for its cards for some time when they started supporting linux as well. So clearly, the binary nvidia driver is not a derivation of the linux kernel. They also supply a linux-specific "shim" which provides an interface between the linux kernel and the nvidia binary blob, and they provide the source of that linux specific shim in the download.
Seriously, where's the crime?
Sorry, but providing a "shim" does not protect you from the GPL license of the Linux kernel. The Samba group has proved this many times in the past with lots of precident in going after companies that tried to do this with their code base. The Linux developers have also successfully enforced this in the past, so there really isn't any discenting opinion here among the legal community that works with the GPL. I prefer not to get into the legal details as I spend enough time talking to lawyers. Also, don't take legal advice from a programmer, just like you should not take medical advice from a lawyer. If you have questions about this, ask a lawyer, then can give you more information than you could ever want to know about this topic... thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 25/01/2008, Greg KH <gregkh@suse.de> wrote:
Sigh. Nvidia had been writing drivers for its cards for some time when they started supporting linux as well. So clearly, the binary nvidia driver is not a derivation of the linux kernel. They also supply a linux-specific "shim" which provides an interface between the linux kernel and the nvidia binary blob, and they provide the source of that linux specific shim in the download.
Seriously, where's the crime?
Sorry, but providing a "shim" does not protect you from the GPL license of the Linux kernel. The Samba group has proved this many times in the past with lots of precident in going after companies that tried to do this with their code base.
Also the shim is not even GPLed either, from the files: /* _NVRM_COPYRIGHT_BEGIN_ * * Copyright 1999-2001 by NVIDIA Corporation. All rights reserved. All * information contained herein is proprietary and confidential to NVIDIA * Corporation. Any use, reproduction, or disclosure without the written * permission of NVIDIA Corporation is prohibited. * * _NVRM_COPYRIGHT_END_ */ -- Benjamin Weber -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
This thread seems been have been hijacked and taken OT. Is there any chance of returning it on-topic? In the past I've bought various brands of card, knowing them to have proprietary drivers because the received wisdom has been that that's the only way to get good solid performance. I love to buy hardware that actively supports OSS but so far I don't think I've seen any suggestions. My summary of the on-topic content is that Intel produce chipsets with OSS drivers but no cards are [yet?] available. Is there any better news? Thanks, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Greg KH wrote:
On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 10:28:14AM -0800, Sloan wrote:
Greg KH wrote:
Sloan wrote:
They have tried, but their answers make no sense, and fall apart as soon as you take a close look. I don't see what good this witch hunt can do - 1. nvidia makes video cards. 2. they write drivers for those cards, for windoze, solaris, freebsd and linux 3. the linux license nazis scream "lawbreaker!"
"Nazis"? Ugh, have we already sunk that low in this thread?
Apologies, this snippet was part of a private reply to Mr Kulkis who sent me a PM about the nvidia module, then forwarded my personal reply to the list, looking to generate controversy I suppose. I would have been much more careful in my choice of words had I known it was destined to be broadcast.
Ah, that wasn't very nice of Mr. Kulkis to do, apology accepted.
I didn't realize that he replied off list...it was just a plain mistake, not an act of malevolence. The addressing protocols on this list are retarded. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
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Aaron Kulkis -
Benji Weber -
Dave Howorth -
Druid -
Greg KH -
Sloan