On Monday 29 January 2007 21:50, Zhang Weiwu wrote:

Point a link to wikipedia to a Chinese guy? Oh, we are not as free to access information as you thought. My apologies.

I sent some text to you directly. I hope it helps to answer some of your questions. -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 29 January 2007 22:15, John Andersen wrote:

Seems to me that the GIF issue died because the patent died, which will also happen to mp3 patents circa 2011 give or take a year or two. My point is that most folks today do not make GIFs. The whole patent thing forced (and I'm thinking digital cameras here) to store the camera data as JPEG. So today the GIF is mostly dead. Yes mp3 is out there today... but long before the patent dies folks will shift to ogg--- at least that is my prediction.

PS Thanks for the links on JPEG... I enjoyed reading them... and I did not know that there are *still* claims out there against it... SOFTWARE PATENTS MUST DIE -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 30 January 2007 02:30, Carlos E. R. wrote:

No, cameras use jpg because it compress much more - at a cost, it is a lossy format. The comparable alternative to gif is png, not jpg. Yeah, I know.

But there was a time when GIF was considered as an option for first quality photo image data (on camera) .... but alas, its not there... not on any of my digitals... and it would have been... if it were not for the licensing issues with GIF... that was the point. Well, anyway, the point was not to argue at all about video formats... the idea here is to think clearly about whether the community is going to be arm wrestled or boxed into using a lossy codec when other options are available. The community should drive this not the vendors. Let 'em keep the mp3 patent... who cares... I don't use it. -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

在 2007-01-30二的 07:21 +0100，Pascal Bleser写道：

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Zhang Weiwu wrote:

...

I think I have called enough attention (and created a lot of confusion) to the mp3 issue, thank you for caring about this and discuss about it. As more people start paying attention on issues the issues are likely getting solved faster. And this post is for the users who look for an

Listen, your post was pretty high on the trollmeter, and "As more people start paying attention on issues the issues are likely getting solved faster."... wth ?

Thanks for bring this hotter ;)

- - unless you use Ogg/Vorbis, the issue isn't solved and is never going to be solved; the only "solution" right now is Helix or fluendo (through a piece of junk named gstreamer)

I guess I listed several alternative solutions at the end of my original email. You can consider the only solution is ogg/vorbis, well I recognize that is a very good impractical solution. I will keep thinking the alternative solutions I listed are solutions that making sense, unless you write your reason convince me they are not. So please critise based on the list of solutions I have had. Critise it, the stronger the better. I need to be convinced ;)

- - you really think you're the first person asking for this ?

And the solution is right here: http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats/10.2

Yes, and this page is given to me when the very first time I ask about mp3 issue and I did read through. And then why I still look for a solution? Because that page is not enough, it didn't list solutions to all problems we are facing, not even better half of them (e.g. what about other lots of players on Gnome? what about totem as the default player? What about Rhythmbox? And Beep Media Player?) So, are you satisfied when you find a page sayign "hey, this is the solution" or are you satisfied when you find a solution that works? Well I am not going to be satisfied if only one or two players play mp3 on SuSE and solutions are out of ordinary non-techie user's reach. Do we want an OpenSuSE that require user to do a lot of post-configuration or do we want a product works out-of-the-box? Which one compete better with Vista? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 30 January 2007 10:00, Zhang Weiwu wrote:

...

Listen, your post was pretty high on the trollmeter, and "As more people start paying attention on issues the issues are likely getting solved faster."... wth ?

That's an understatement..

Thanks for bring this hotter ;)

Wait until you read the rest of what I've got to say.

So, are you satisfied when you find a page sayign "hey, this is the solution" or are you satisfied when you find a solution that works? Well I am not going to be satisfied if only one or two players play mp3 on SuSE and solutions are out of ordinary non-techie user's reach.

Do we want an OpenSuSE that require user to do a lot of post-configuration or do we want a product works out-of-the-box? Which one compete better with Vista?

Here's the deal. It's NOT going to be included. Lots of folks have told you this. The other part is that a number of folks, myself have given you the way to make this work. If you don't want to, or can't, then it's your problem not ours. The solutions are out there. If a person needs help, he asks. You on the other hand do nothing but complain because it doesn't work the way YOU want it to. That's too bad. If you don't like the answers try something else, or build your own distro. Then you can include whatever you want. I doubt that China has the restrictions that other countries have when it comes to this sort of thing. You said it yourself that most run Windows because it's free. Well, only in China is it free. I'd bet they run down and buy it on disk for only a fraction of the real cost. I'm not worried about a reply. You just made the bit bucket. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 10.0 Kernel 2.6.13 X86_64 KDE 3.4 Kmail 1.8 4:16pm up 1 day 22:00, 4 users, load average: 1.14, 1.14, 1.14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bryan S. Tyson wrote:

On Tuesday 30 January 2007 1:21 am, Pascal Bleser wrote:

...

xmms is dead, get over it.

What do you mean that xmms is dead?

Xmms is still my favorite music player and accounts for 90% of my listening time. The other 10% I use Amarok. I would be very disappointed if xmms died. However, it still seems to be readily available and still works great.

Thanks for any explanation of its "death."

Answered elsewhere in the thread. cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFv9B+r3NMWliFcXcRAsT2AJ9Xpia/PMhRJLRVGhxQe5yryZRwLwCfSkJt bS9y623m7EUtulhiAKO+C2k= =LyXN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2007-01-30 at 19:16 -0000, Peter Nikolic wrote:

On Tuesday 30 January 2007 06:21, Pascal Bleser wrote:

...

xmms is dead, get over it.

Now at one time i thought this bloke was an alright bloke now however he has become a nobody.

Like it or not there is simply NO realistic replacement for XMMS none of the

Pascal is not expressing an opinion, but a fact. The developement of XMMS has stopped, therefore, it is dead. Have a look at the project page at http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmms/: the last release is dated Jan 2002. You have some info on the wikipedia. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFv6ZrtTMYHG2NR9URAm7nAJ0VKuJMdTGwNO2YQfky9kk5l11GggCglAKS xpQQ22Vmqt2VK/T6iCM+p2A= =/F9z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2007-01-30 at 15:28 -0500, Charles philip Chan wrote:

On 30 Jan 2007, robin.listas@ wrote:

...

Pascal is not expressing an opinion, but a fact. The developement of XMMS has stopped, therefore, it is dead. Have a look at the project page at http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmms/: the last release is dated Jan 2002.

This is only because development have moved over to the xmms2 branch:

http://wiki.xmms2.xmms.se/index.php/Main_Page

which is still at version 0.2, alpha state (http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmms2/). It is not a valid replacement yet. It is not the only fork: there is also BMP, BMPx and Audacious, according to the wikipedia; I use BMP from packman myself, which is mature (has also stopped development) and forked to BMPx and Audacious (or A. forks from xmms directly, I'm unsure). Not a clear field :-)

However, there are still bug fixes going into the xmms cvs tree. The latest entry was dated:

Sat Jan 6 14:09:04 EET 2007

curious. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFv7FrtTMYHG2NR9URAq0BAJ47QPYxewXvyK7MAKN8Gz7fTfk6jwCfXUBj DiIRDS1Co+BhL5w6vAWTG9w= =pK9I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2007-01-30 at 16:10 -0500, Charles philip Chan wrote:

On 30 Jan 2007, robin.listas@telefonica.net wrote:

...

which is still at version 0.2, alpha state (http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmms2/). It is not a valid replacement yet.

I didn't say it was a valid replacement yet. I am just stating the fact that development have not stopped.

It has stopped for xmms. It has started for xmms2.

...

It is not the only fork: there is also BMP, BMPx and Audacious, according to the wikipedia;

xmms2 is not a fork, but a redesign by the original team (like what Arpi is doing for mplayer with mplayer2). I know this because I used to follow the XMMS devel list.

A question of names. Still, plain xmms is dead for practical purposes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmms: | | Forks ... | | # The XMMS2 project, a redesign of XMMS began by one of its original | authors - Peter Alm - started around the end of 2002. So... xmms stopped on 2002, xmms2 started then, but they are still at the alpha stage. xmms is dead, it's child ungrown. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFv9KGtTMYHG2NR9URAl9/AJ0agtQqcwMWbjFxw10HaSZbUCMY/gCfeC5x PlW4n6fJE3ls39/aWE1W0mI= =cJJy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2007-01-30 at 21:40 +0100, Mike wrote:

...

XMMS has stopped, therefore, it is dead. Have a look at the project page at http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmms/: the last release is dated Jan 2002.

You have some info on the wikipedia.

You might want to take a look at www.xmms.org. Seems they are still working on it. Last release was 1.2.10 which is higher than the one left on sourceforge. Updates on the news page are from 2006 also.

1.2.10 is the veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeersion [Break: those "eeee...s" above are due to the nonexistent keyboard bug] I was going to say that 1.2.10 is the version that SuSE 10.1 included. However, the version on sourceforge is 1.2.6, dated Jan 2002. That matches with development being stopped, they probably only do maintenance realeases. Also, on wikipedia they say that it still uses GTK+ 1.x, it seems in order not to break third parties plugins. There has been a gtk 2.x for years, so it seems obvious that xmms can not continue as it is, that's why it has forked. So plain 'xmms' must be at least moribund, probably dead. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFv8+rtTMYHG2NR9URArYgAJ9W8vIgfIgkl4L+b+vfdSdXAPCVTgCdE/7a F9xF049nGbIy0aN7t181cnw= =RnfW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2007-01-30 at 19:29 -0900, John Andersen wrote:

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You might want to take a look at www.xmms.org. Seems they are still working on it. Last release was 1.2.10 which is higher than the one left on sourceforge. Updates on the news page are from 2006 also.

Not to mention xmms2

http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmms2/

Which is still at the alpha state after four years development. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFwGMotTMYHG2NR9URApUZAKCUWdCWhiL6SYzmUHZXf9uU+RIBCgCeMzN7 TBbhalBM3Ra7WA1Bl7J+0MU= =55ja -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2007-01-31 at 00:43 -0900, John Andersen wrote:

...

...

Not to mention xmms2

http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmms2/

Which is still at the alpha state after four years development.

One could almost say the same about Amarok...

No. I'm not giving an opinion, but a fact, taken from the respective projects page at sourceforge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/amarok/ ... Project Details ... Development Status : 5 - Production/Stable http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmms2/ ... Development Status : 3 - Alpha If you think that the current version of xmms2 (which is 0.2) should be dubbed "stable", please contact the developers to change that. But not being close to version number 1.0, I doubt they will. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFwG5wtTMYHG2NR9URAuTZAJ9vCW5Ta+AW/RbSB85yZIPQPbqgKgCfUwXY il4FiSuXXzzWm7XF+A2fcc8= =IVIr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 30 January 2007 15:08, Pascal Bleser wrote:

Peter Nikolic wrote:

...

On Tuesday 30 January 2007 06:21, Pascal Bleser wrote:

...

xmms is dead, get over it.

-- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane.

Now at one time i thought this bloke was an alright bloke now however he has become a nobody.

Heh. Being a nobody would give me *lots* of free time. Yay !

hey, how did you get on my system? kai@sith:~/shared> l total 7032 -rwxr--r-- 1 nobody nobody 8961 2007-01-11 19:53 clsConfig.java* -rwxr--r-- 1 nobody nobody 814 2007-01-27 07:51 VPN-B-NAT 4.0.3.pcf* -rwxr--r-- 1 nobody nobody 791 2007-01-27 07:51 VPN-C-NoNAT 4.0.3.pcf* kai@sith:~/shared> h4xx0r! -- kai www.perfectreign.com || www.4thedadz.com www.filesite.org || www.donutmonster.com closing the doors that surround me so no one will ever penetrate complete my retreat just to wait for the day that never comes so i will laugh alone -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

legal here because I don't think there is an mp3 patent in China. Reverse engineer is also perfectly legal here (welcome to China!). So, I

s/Reverse engineer/Reverse Engineerring/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2007-01-30 at 17:15 +0800, Zhang Weiwu wrote:

This is a very very helpful approach. I thank you very much for what you have done. There is still a question in my head, maybe I am stupid:

There is a link in your page and it linke to a page explains issue related to restricted formats, I see a warning there:

Do not add external links to software packages that contain illegal software. Since openSUSE is sponsored by Novell, this means "illegal" in any jurisdiction that Novell carries on business.

Here I have a question for people who might understand law better than me. What is the word 'illegal' mean actually to me? I live in China for 25 years, this piece of land never made the concept of illegal software very clear. Is mad library illegal? I'd like to say this is perfectly

Notice that your local laws do not apply to that page. The applied law are those of the country to which Novell belongs. Ie, Novell is not a Chinese company, it is an American company: thus American laws apply to that page.

this page: http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats/10.2 Which seems do not have a warning like that.

Because it is not sponsored by Novell.

For other ways, like recommending Novell to put non-oss the default repository

No way. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFv0v0tTMYHG2NR9URAnioAJ94d9PA1j9G62rfOX4fBWvX+NMaGgCggNfI qQWi9+bMEvKOsL4ZoR+fJi4= =4dZC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org