Hi, all: Another user posted a question about kernel 2.5.3. A cat's curiosity: I thought we were still in 2.4.something, and now 2.5.3? What happened to 2.5.0, 2.5.1, 2.5.2? It sounds like Model T following Model A... Regards, gr (in sunny, warm Florida) **"In war, it counts not who's right, but who's left."** /Dear Abby/

Jeffrey Taylor wrote:

The 2.5 series is the development/unstable kernel series (AKA hemorrhaging edge). 2.5.0 thru 2.5.2 existed, at least fleetingly. Unless you are a kernel developer or have a spare machine to crash, you don't want them.

The 2.4 series is theoretically stable (i.e., bleeding edge). The 2.2 series is still being worked on and extended (the production series).

I have to disagree with that. When Linus signed off on 2.4.16 to open the 2.5 tree, that basically made it the "final production release". We've put SuSE's 2.4.16 on half-a-dozen machines at work and have had no problems whatsoever. I can't imagine anyone installing 2.2 on a new machine at this point. -- ======================================================= Glenn Holmer (gholmer@ameritech.net) ------------------------------------------------------- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn. (In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.) ------------------------------------------------------- -H. P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu", 1926 =======================================================

Jeffrey Taylor wrote:

I just reverted a new production machine from the initial install of SuSE-2.4.0 to SuSE-2.2.18 and then updated to SuSE-2.2.19. Too much did not work. When I have time and a stable machine, I will try again to inch up the 2.4 series.

I don't mean to argue, Jeffrey, but... 2.4.0? as in zero?

Note: I have SuSE 7.1 and 2.4.2 is the latest SuSE kernel available for it.

Not so: see ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/update/7.1/kernel/ That's where I got the 2.4.16 for the machines I upgraded at work (also SuSE 7.1). I'm running it on 7.2 at home.

Calling it a stable production release does not make it one. The 2.4 series has been troublesome.

Controversial, yes. Were some releases bad? Yes! But SuSE's 2.4.16 is golden. -- ======================================================= Glenn Holmer (gholmer@ameritech.net) ------------------------------------------------------- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn. (In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.) ------------------------------------------------------- -H. P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu", 1926 =======================================================

* Jeffrey Taylor (jeff.taylor@ieee.org) [020210 07:49]: ->I just reverted a new production machine from the initial install of ->SuSE-2.4.0 to SuSE-2.2.18 and then updated to SuSE-2.2.19. Too much ->did not work. When I have time and a stable machine, I will try again ->to inch up the 2.4 series. Note: I have SuSE 7.1 and 2.4.2 is the ->latest SuSE kernel available for it. -> ->Calling it a stable production release does not make it one. The 2.4 ->series has been troublesome. Yes, and using a 1st..out the door revision like 2.4.0 then condemning the 2.4.16 release that came out one year later as not production quality is not very sound logic. You can use whatever release of SuSE you wish but know this..they don't just do . releases to make cash off the public there are fixes for what they produce in those CD's ;) BTW..you might want to keep up on what's in the update directory on the ftp site..did you there like last fall or something? ;) Check here: ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/update/7.1/kernel/2.4.16 You should maybe read the bugfix release. And yes, if Linus releases something as stable it's usually very close to being stable. Cheers! And I hope this helps to get you up with the current stuff. -----=====-----=====-----=====-----=====----- Ben Rosenberg mailto:ben@whack.org -----=====-----=====-----=====-----=====----- "I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around the more I think it might not be a bad thing." -JC

2.4.0 came with 7.1 .. 2.4.10 came with 7.3 (an October 2001 release) and they did a final release of 2.4.16 about 3 months later. The .10 release was the first release with the new VM (virtual memory) and it had some pretty major issues. So they banged out the issues and .16 is the stable release. If you don't wish to upgrade...and don't care about an increase in preformance..then don't update. You have to understand that Microsoft and Sun both do kernel updates quite regularly..they come bundled in the form of service packs and Recommended pkg clusters in Sun's case. What your seeing with Linux is just more out in the open. SuSE could release on huge RPM every so often with these updates..but they and many other distributions do not do this..it's just not how it works. :) You have the choice to update what you want..when you want. You don't to download a 50M compressed file and run a whole patch cluster just for a few updates. If you were to download the 8_Recommend.zip from Sun it would be about 50-60M and uncompressed be about 200M. It's just how it works. Do what you like..it's your choice. It's the nice thing about Open Source..the developers and companies put the updates there and if you choose to not read the list of fixes and choose to just sit tight with what you have..it's your choice. :) Cheers! * Jeffrey Taylor (jeff.taylor@ieee.org) [020210 15:29]: ->I was looking at the kernels in the d2 directory. Why are there ->kernels in two places? What is the rationale for the two different ->series? I tried 2.4.0 because it came on the CDs. Why release a ->kernel that must immediately be upgraded? -> ->Jeffrey -> ->Quoting Ben Rosenberg : ->> * Jeffrey Taylor (jeff.taylor@ieee.org) [020210 07:49]: ->> ->I just reverted a new production machine from the initial install of ->> ->SuSE-2.4.0 to SuSE-2.2.18 and then updated to SuSE-2.2.19. Too much ->> ->did not work. When I have time and a stable machine, I will try again ->> ->to inch up the 2.4 series. Note: I have SuSE 7.1 and 2.4.2 is the ->> ->latest SuSE kernel available for it. ->> -> ->> ->Calling it a stable production release does not make it one. The 2.4 ->> ->series has been troublesome. ->> ->> Yes, and using a 1st..out the door revision like 2.4.0 then condemning ->> the 2.4.16 release that came out one year later as not production ->> quality is not very sound logic. You can use whatever release of SuSE ->> you wish but know this..they don't just do . releases to make cash off ->> the public there are fixes for what they produce in those CD's ;) ->> ->> BTW..you might want to keep up on what's in the update directory on the ->> ftp site..did you there like last fall or something? ;) ->> ->> Check here: ->> ->> ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/update/7.1/kernel/2.4.16 ->> ->> You should maybe read the bugfix release. ->> ->> And yes, if Linus releases something as stable it's usually very close ->> to being stable. ->> ->> Cheers! And I hope this helps to get you up with the current stuff. ->> ->> Ben Rosenberg mailto:ben@whack.org ->> "I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around the more I ->> think it might not be a bad thing." -JC ->> -> ->-- ->To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com ->For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com ->Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the ->archives at http://lists.suse.com -> -----=====-----=====-----=====-----=====----- Ben Rosenberg mailto:ben@whack.org -----=====-----=====-----=====-----=====----- "I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around the more I think it might not be a bad thing." -JC

Karol Pietrzak wrote:

Perhaps the greatest reason would be security: most firewalls should run the latest 2.2, not 2.4.

Why is that? Is it felt that iptables is not as mature as ipchains, or is it a kernel issue? -- ======================================================= Glenn Holmer (gholmer@ameritech.net) ------------------------------------------------------- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn. (In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.) ------------------------------------------------------- -H. P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu", 1926 =======================================================

I have read the press releases about how superior IPtables are. Certainly there is more capability there, but I don't see that I need or will use any of it. Plus SuSEfirewall2 doesn't come with 7.1, so either I spend large amounts of time learning how to use IPtables and building a firewall by hand or just use ipchains with the 2.4 kernel. Is a SOHO firewall really going to use the power of IPtables? Jeffrey Quoting Ben Rosenberg :

I've never heard this. Is this personal opinion?

iptables is much close to ipfilter which is 10X better then ipchains.

* Glenn Holmer (gholmer@ameritech.net) [020210 11:56]: ->Karol Pietrzak wrote: ->> Perhaps the greatest reason would be security: most firewalls ->> should run the latest 2.2, not 2.4. -> ->Why is that? Is it felt that iptables is not as mature as ->ipchains, or is it a kernel issue? -> ->-- -> ======================================================= -> Glenn Holmer (gholmer@ameritech.net) -> ------------------------------------------------------- -> Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn. -> (In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.) -> ------------------------------------------------------- -> -H. P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu", 1926 -> ======================================================= -> -> -> ->-- ->To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com ->For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com ->Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the ->archives at http://lists.suse.com ->

Ben Rosenberg mailto:ben@whack.org "I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around the more I think it might not be a bad thing." -JC

Sounds like it has NAT/IP masquerading. Ipchains has that. How are you using the stateful packet filter? Jeffrey Quoting James Bliss :

If you are running the 2.4 kernel then you can download SuSEfirewall2 from: http://www.suse.com/~marc/SuSE.html

It is a very simple install and will work on 7.1 with no problems (as long as you are running the 2.4 kernel from 7.1). I ran firewall2 from when I installed 7.1 up until now with 7.3 professional.

As to whether you are going to use what comes with firewall2 in a SOHO, I do not know. I am running it in my SOHO and it is very useful since I am allowing multiple machine through the firewall machine to access the internet as well as running Apache.

the latest "linus" kernal is a decided split. for 2.4 it's 2.4.18pre9 so 2.4 is still being upgraded, i'll expect SuSE V7.4 to be somewhere around this kernal. for 2.5 (the next step on the path) it's actually 2.5.4pre3 i think, i'll expect SuSE V8.x when it comes out to be somewhere around or past this kernal. however I wouldn't expect SuSE to release any of these until they had a stable and SuSE Application compatability Tested Kernal. That's one of the major reasons I buy SuSE, they test thoroughly before releasing (even mantel has a lot of testing before being available). scsijon At 08:15 AM 2/10/02 -0500, gilson redrick wrote:

Hi, all:

Another user posted a question about kernel 2.5.3. A cat's curiosity: I thought we were still in 2.4.something, and now 2.5.3? What happened to 2.5.0, 2.5.1, 2.5.2? It sounds like Model T following Model A...

Regards,

gr (in sunny, warm Florida)

**"In war, it counts not who's right, but who's left."** /Dear Abby/

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com