[opensuse] Non-destructive Increase of /boot partition?
Hi, Setting up a low usage 'server' to handle email, files, faxing and printing using openSUSE 11.0. I have 3 HDD's and hence would like to establish RAID 5 where possible. All disks have space for both a /boot and swap partition but this was only mounted on the first drive. The three HDD's are each partitioned the same that have had the /root and /home file systems added to software RAID 5 (md0 and md1) I tried to include the /boot partition under RAID 5 and also under ) across all three drives and when I tried to add /boot to RAID it complained/agreed but then the system would not boot so hence the boot partition has not been RAID'd. I decided to just have a single partition of 23.5MB as my /boot partition on one of the drives. System has loaded fine after install and has been working 100%. The /boot partition is 23.5MB in size. The problem is that I have been catching up on updates since 11.0 was released and currently all have been successful. Only the kernel-pae update is failing due to space constraints ie the partition needs enlarging. Is it possible to use opensuse 11 software installed via YAST ie no hand compiling, to increase the size of the /boot partition, NON-DESTRUCTIVELY ie without reinstalling the whole system again? What size should I make /boot, especially as I thought it would only be accessed on system boot? Would 100MB be sufficent and can this be done NON-destructively? I have looked at the openSUSE archive but didn't find anything there, nor on Google but YMMV. I'd appreciate a pointer or three in the right direction w.r.t Linux non-restructive partitioning, if possible. Regards Hylton -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) said the following on 10/29/2008 09:13 AM:
Is it possible to use opensuse 11 software installed via YAST ie no hand compiling, to increase the size of the /boot partition, NON-DESTRUCTIVELY ie without reinstalling the whole system again?
Yes and no. It is for me since I have my whole system running under LVM. That includes /boot and / Not all systems will allow you to have /boot and / under LVM but Suse is one of them, its bootloaders can handle LVM. Some installations can't. If you are running RAID and have a situation where you may need to play around with partition sizes, either grow or 'shrink to fit' after an over-pessimistic install, then LVM is wonderful. Some file systems allow the expansion or contraction while mounted, others don't. Consult your manual. I have had copy of the suse manual on LVM that I printed off years ago, long before I moved to SUSE, so I'm not sure of its URL. I printed it because other packages, while they include LVM, don't offer documentation or things like YAST for managing them. -- Knowledge is power. --Thomas Hobbes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2008-10-29 at 15:13 +0200, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote: ...
Is it possible to use opensuse 11 software installed via YAST ie no hand compiling, to increase the size of the /boot partition, NON-DESTRUCTIVELY ie without reinstalling the whole system again?
Hardly. You can increse some partition types if there are free tracks just after it, which will not be the case. If you use LVM, perhaps (some filesystem types only). - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkIj1kACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VtKACdHHfIo7pKsODkBmGz5QIDasXt AAYAnjRUzFmNEN5EPTC4EkQuxHPQXdkb =SB5k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/10/29 Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net>:
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On Wednesday, 2008-10-29 at 15:13 +0200, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
...
Is it possible to use opensuse 11 software installed via YAST ie no hand compiling, to increase the size of the /boot partition, NON-DESTRUCTIVELY ie without reinstalling the whole system again?
Hardly.
You can increse some partition types if there are free tracks just after it, which will not be the case.
If you use LVM, perhaps (some filesystem types only).
Ok, non understanding is setting in :) It looks like a complete format and reload is required. I do not mind, as long as I only have to do it once and undertstand how it all works so I can adminster it. Tnx to Anton for the LVM pointer. CArlos tnx as well. The filesystems being used will only be ext3. This is how I understand it all from what I have read. Please correct the errors in my understanding. LVM is a way to accumulate/join disk space on a few drives and then partition that total space into logical drives/partitions. Using this definition I could use LVM to create a single partition that I could then create three /boot, /, and /home logical partitions and then RAID 5 those partitions that are in the LVM partition? Can it also be said that this type of LVM RAID does not incorporate the ability to recover from a single disk failure of RAID as two of the logical partitions of the RAID array may be on the same failed HDD. If the HDD fails, I have just got to hope the backups are up to date? Given my above assumption and that different physical devices can be stipulated for each logical partition under LVM, LVM does not look like a beast I want to play with, especially as I want to keep the RAID 5 on / and /home. How can I boot a linux system when the /boot partition has gone south? Will starting from the 11.0 CD work and choosing 'Boot installed system'? Oh WHEN will openSUSE ship a partitioning tool with their DVD that will allow non-destructive partition resizing? Does anyone have a Bugzilla report I can vote on to request this? Now whilst RAID is not a backup mechanism it certainly enables fewer backups to be taken as the fs is looked after better. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mittwoch, 29. Oktober 2008, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
Oh WHEN will openSUSE ship a partitioning tool with their DVD that will allow non-destructive partition resizing? Does anyone have a Bugzilla report I can vote on to request this?
parted can do that, but that of course requires that there is some free disk space directly behind the partition to be enlarged. Most modern file systems are capable of resizing. The YaST2 partitioner is little more than a graphical front-end for parted (and lvm-tools and evms-tools etc.). But it does not necessarily provide each and every exotic feature of the underlying tools; sometimes you have to use the tools directly. http://www.hermann-uwe.de/blog/resizing-ext3-partitions-with-parted http://www.howtoforge.com/linux_resizing_ext3_partitions HTH -- Stefan Hundhammer <sh@suse.de> Penguin by conviction. YaST2 Development SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Nürnberg, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stefan Hundhammer said the following on 10/29/2008 01:21 PM:
On Mittwoch, 29. Oktober 2008, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
Oh WHEN will openSUSE ship a partitioning tool with their DVD that will allow non-destructive partition resizing? Does anyone have a Bugzilla report I can vote on to request this?
parted can do that, but that of course requires that there is some free disk space directly behind the partition to be enlarged. Most modern file systems are capable of resizing.
The YaST2 partitioner is little more than a graphical front-end for parted (and lvm-tools and evms-tools etc.). But it does not necessarily provide each and every exotic feature of the underlying tools; sometimes you have to use the tools directly.
http://www.hermann-uwe.de/blog/resizing-ext3-partitions-with-parted http://www.howtoforge.com/linux_resizing_ext3_partitions
As those articles point out, you have to unmount the ext3 partition, even under LVM, to resize it. That means if you want to resize a critical partition like /boot, /, /var, /usr or in come cases /home and /tmp, you have to shut down and boot from a LiveCD or USB. This is not always possible with an enterprise system as the need t expand the volume/FS size may, like having the machine up and running, be critical to the business. The ReiserFS, however, can be resized while mounted. I'd advise using the ResiserFS if you ever need to do a live re-sizing. -- There is no legitimate religion apart from truth. --John Calvin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 14:38 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
Stefan Hundhammer said the following on 10/29/2008 01:21 PM:
On Mittwoch, 29. Oktober 2008, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
Oh WHEN will openSUSE ship a partitioning tool with their DVD that will allow non-destructive partition resizing? Does anyone have a Bugzilla report I can vote on to request this?
parted can do that, but that of course requires that there is some free disk space directly behind the partition to be enlarged. Most modern file systems are capable of resizing.
The YaST2 partitioner is little more than a graphical front-end for parted (and lvm-tools and evms-tools etc.). But it does not necessarily provide each and every exotic feature of the underlying tools; sometimes you have to use the tools directly.
http://www.hermann-uwe.de/blog/resizing-ext3-partitions-with-parted http://www.howtoforge.com/linux_resizing_ext3_partitions
As those articles point out, you have to unmount the ext3 partition, even under LVM, to resize it. That means if you want to resize a critical partition like /boot, /, /var, /usr or in come cases /home and /tmp, you have to shut down and boot from a LiveCD or USB.
This is not always possible with an enterprise system as the need t expand the volume/FS size may, like having the machine up and running, be critical to the business.
The ReiserFS, however, can be resized while mounted. I'd advise using the ResiserFS if you ever need to do a live re-sizing.
some remarks, With lvm you can resize (allmost) any partition. Ans afterwards you can resize the fs on those on-the-fly (without remounting) if you're using reiser of ext3 (done that several times) However, the O.P. wanted to know if /boot can be resize painlessly. problem is that /boot can not be within LVM. Any other partitions can, except /boot. So afaics, you can resize /boot, but not easily.... (usb-disks, moving partitions while booted from a rescue-cd)... hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hans Witvliet said the following on 10/29/2008 06:44 PM:
However, the O.P. wanted to know if /boot can be resize painlessly. problem is that /boot can not be within LVM. Any other partitions can, except /boot.
Not so. You can have /boot in LVM. It just requires a LVM-aware bootloader :-) (Go google for the history and see how different systems have dealt with this over the past few years.) Late model Linux (2.6.something onwards) has this, certainly with GRUB. In fact when I did a new install of openSUSE 11.0 from the LiveCD just over a week ago, it saw I had a LVM partition and offered me this option. I could have put root, /boot and swap in the LVM. Even under Mandriva, which didn't offer this option when I first installed it, I could put swap in the LVM and did. Resizing swap isn't so easy, though ... it has to be reformatted -- Mary had a little key (It's all she could export), and all the email that she sent was opened at the Fort. -- Ron Rivest -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/10/30 Anton Aylward <anton.aylward@rogers.com>:
Hans Witvliet said the following on 10/29/2008 06:44 PM:
However, the O.P. wanted to know if /boot can be resize painlessly. problem is that /boot can not be within LVM. Any other partitions can, except /boot.
Not so. You can have /boot in LVM. It just requires a LVM-aware bootloader :-) (Go google for the history and see how different systems have dealt with this over the past few years.)
Late model Linux (2.6.something onwards) has this, certainly with GRUB.
In fact when I did a new install of openSUSE 11.0 from the LiveCD just over a week ago, it saw I had a LVM partition and offered me this option. I could have put root, /boot and swap in the LVM.
Even under Mandriva, which didn't offer this option when I first installed it, I could put swap in the LVM and did. Resizing swap isn't so easy, though ... it has to be reformatted
Tnx Hans and Ron for the input. OK, lots of info to collate here... Primarily I wanted to increase the size of the /boot partition non-destructively and it does not seem possible without considerable trouble. The use of software RAID, possibly with LVM, is some protection against data failure, but nothing beats a good backup. Given the backup capacity is 250GB, I believe that LVM and RAID just add another layer the kernel must work through and hence something additional to go wrong. I like the idea of being able to resize partitions on the fly and having the redundancy RAID provides but think they just complicate a simple server setup. There is substantial email backing up at my ISP which must be downloaded/removed in the next few days. I think the simplest setup in this case is to setup the system on a single HDD and then add then incorporate RAID5/LVM at a latwer stage. With the above action in mind, how big would you make the /boot partition? Suggestions appreciated on /boot, / and /home size as the backup only has capacity for 250GB. ( From current experience I can say a 23.5MB /boot is too small) The machine has 2GB of RAM and for safety sake i'll partition a further 1GB as swap If RAID is going to be suggested, it will be software based. The drives(SATA):. sda 250GB sdb 250GB sdc 250GB Regards Hylton -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
Resizing swap isn't so easy, though ... it has to be reformatted
There's no need to resize swap. Just create a new file (not even a new partition is necessary), format it and add it to the swap list. Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 19:15 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
Hans Witvliet said the following on 10/29/2008 06:44 PM:
However, the O.P. wanted to know if /boot can be resize painlessly. problem is that /boot can not be within LVM. Any other partitions can, except /boot.
Not so. You can have /boot in LVM. It just requires a LVM-aware bootloader :-) (Go google for the history and see how different systems have dealt with this over the past few years.)
Late model Linux (2.6.something onwards) has this, certainly with GRUB.
Are you sure? I tried it (accidentially) about half a year ago, probably with 10.3. Are you perhaps talking about grub2? That's neither in the released versions of opnsuse or SLE neither on the OBS. Suse still use 0.9xx (grub1) Only the very latest version of ubuntu seems to be using grub2... hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2008-10-29 at 19:08 +0200, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote: ..
LVM is a way to accumulate/join disk space on a few drives and then
Or a single drive. And you can use LVM on top of raid, I think.
How can I boot a linux system when the /boot partition has gone south? Will starting from the 11.0 CD work and choosing 'Boot installed system'?
Maybe not.
Oh WHEN will openSUSE ship a partitioning tool with their DVD that will allow non-destructive partition resizing? Does anyone have a Bugzilla report I can vote on to request this?
I think that what you are thinking of, and what I would love too, is a tool like "partition magic". Am I correct?
Now whilst RAID is not a backup mechanism it certainly enables fewer backups to be taken as the fs is looked after better.
Well... I a program goes berserk and damages the filesystem, both copies will be bad. If you have a power failure, both copies will be bad. If you accidentally delete everything, bot copies will be bad. No, what raid is for is to ensure that if one disk (not the filesystem on it) goes bad, you can continue nonstop; with some setups you can actually change the disk live, with some (homes) you have to power off first. But if something writes bad data to the filesystem, or deletes data or structures, only a backup can save your day. So... in some situations a periodical backup is better. Like having two disks, one mounted and in use, the other umounted, and getting a copy via cron, say every hour. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkIs/8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WomACghCgHgeIOEnBS+3nxY+6vQlHN hxoAn3J+cz1vBMH3dN6cZc42f9MGewC5 =gjb2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mittwoch, 29. Oktober 2008, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Is it possible to use opensuse 11 software installed via YAST ie no hand compiling, to increase the size of the /boot partition, NON-DESTRUCTIVELY ie without reinstalling the whole system again?
Hardly.
You can increse some partition types if there are free tracks just after it, which will not be the case.
If you use LVM, perhaps (some filesystem types only).
A possibly simpler solution - not for the faint of heart (and no warranty or support or anything - use at your own risk): If you don't use anything exotic like RAID, LVM, EVMS, you could simply move /boot from a separate partition to a plain directory in the root file system. I usually don't bother any more with a separate /boot partition these days. Simply copy /boot with all its subdirectories to /boot.new, unmount /boot, and /boot.new to /boot. Then comment out /boot in /etc/fstab and adapt /etc/grub.conf and /boot/grub/menu.lst to use the partition your root file system is on rather the old /boot partition. I am not 100% sure if it is necessary, but I'd install grub new (see "info grub" or "grub --help"). If booting fails, you still have the old /boot partition, and you can use that to boot manually with the grub shell in the boot screen. You might want to have the grub info pages handy (e.g., on a laptop) for emergencies. But I have to repeat that this is strictly at your own risk. ;-} CU -- Stefan Hundhammer <sh@suse.de> Penguin by conviction. YaST2 Development SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Nürnberg, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2008-10-29 at 18:16 +0100, Stefan Hundhammer wrote:
A possibly simpler solution - not for the faint of heart (and no warranty or support or anything - use at your own risk):
If you don't use anything exotic like RAID, LVM, EVMS, you could simply move /boot from a separate partition to a plain directory in the root file system. I usually don't bother any more with a separate /boot partition these days.
I have done that. Or move from one boot to another boot. However, I think he is using a separate boot because of the raid. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkIscMACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WV/wCfcGaUbUOX+Gf8MsiVMAxXO+MI VAoAn2It20KPhSRBaxAlCxntRWAl8P55 =4NGJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 29 October 2008 14:13:00 Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
The problem is that I have been catching up on updates since 11.0 was released and currently all have been successful. Only the kernel-pae update is failing due to space constraints ie the partition needs enlarging.
I'm not aware of a resize solution. If your server can boot from USB: why don't need one of the 100000 useless waytosmallnowadays usb-sticks usually everybody have at home? If not, buy one for 5€, 10$ .... Install boot on the stick, maybe even the bootloader. The diskorder will be different, but afaik should that not make problems with raiddrives because of the signature they have. Never tried it, but should work. Don't forget to put some tape over the stick to prevent accidental removal and backup it into the raid system ... in case it get lost. -- with kind regards, Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) martin.lasarsch@suse.de - http://www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Anton Aylward -
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Howorth -
Hans Witvliet -
Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) -
Martin Lasarsch -
Stefan Hundhammer