Am Samstag, 22. August 2009 14:08:14 schrieb Basil Chupin:

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The KDE4 version got nowhere: pages of error messages. It was a complete and utter big flop - just as the earlier versions of MSs I downloaded in recent weeks.

The GNOME flavour was a complete breeze to boot, and I now have an actual Live version of 11.2 MS6 on my screen!

What does this tell me/you? The mind boggles.

That build 0235 of the KDE4 CD does not work for you while it does for others?

Sorry Sven, not the correct conclusion leading to the wrong question.

Nobody else has come forward to state that the KDE4 11.2 MSx works for him/her. How many people have downloaded the KDE4 Live CDs of 11.2 MSs? I don't know.

Why would anyone post that something works if that is the normal state? Writing this email worked, loading a website in the browser worked, booting 11.1 works...

In any case, KDE4 Live CDs for the earlier MSs don't work for me either so it's not simply build 0235.

They work on two computers here, one being a netbook. There are more people on IRC which reported them working, so while there might be some bug, it's not like the majority is affected and you need to report bugs to fix the issue for you. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Am Samstag, 22. August 2009 15:43:23 schrieb Basil Chupin:

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They work on two computers here, one being a netbook. There are more people on IRC which reported them working, so while there might be some bug, it's not like the majority is affected and you need to report bugs to fix the issue for you.

Forget it.

I simply do not have the time to argue with someone who doesn't understand what is being talked about.

Of course...

Of course 11.2 works for a lot of people! For example, Patrick Shanahan stated (elsewhere) that it works for him but he also stated that he got to the latest MS6 (and probably earlier MSs) by using "zypper dup" and not by installing it using a downloaded CD of MS6.

What about filing bugs and supplying infos about your issues? As long as you cannot bother, why should others? Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Basil Chupin [08-22-09 09:46]:

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I simply do not have the time to argue with someone who doesn't understand what is being talked about.

And there in lies the problem, you wish to argue rather than try to solve and cure the difficulties you face.

The Thesaurus shows that argue is interchangeable with, amongst others, debate, discuss, question, reason, expostulate. If it makes you feel more all warm inside substitute "debate" for the "argue" I used.

Most likely, no one is going to come to you location and hold your hand. If the OP does not understand "what is being talked about" it would be because you have failed to present the relative facts in an understandable manner for the OP. Frustration comes from not being able to "communicate".

You mean that my comment/response to Karl Sinn's post in the "milestone 5" thread is not clear enough?

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Of course 11.2 works for a lot of people! For example, Patrick Shanahan stated (elsewhere) that it works for him but he also stated that he got to the latest MS6 (and probably earlier MSs) by using "zypper dup" and not by installing it using a downloaded CD of MS6.

Not quite, I did install from a live-CD but it was not called a "Milestone" at that time, but a build #, 143. But it is correct that I did no install from a downloaded CD of MS6.

You're fortunate, then, Patrick but I haven't been able to even boot MS5 to install to be able to use zypper dup.

And, when I find something not kosher, I file a bug report and assist when asked in attempting solution.

Agreed but then am I the only one downloading Live KDE CDs and not getting anywhere? When one downloads several copies of the (MS5 & MS6) KDE Live CDs and they all collapse with a black screen when you try and boot the CDs, is it the obvious conclusion that it is now immediately necessary for me to submit a bug report (and to provide *what* information in support of the report?) or is it more logical to first see if others are having the same problem and/or ask if others are also experiencing it? Perhaps the problem is with my hardware? in which case I need to investigate to see where the problem lies. As it happens I decided to test this out by downloading the GNOME [shudder!] version of MS6 Live CD and, as I already stated, it boots! (Mind you, I haven't yet installed it so there is still a question mark about its efficacy.) BC -- Insanity is only a state of mind. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sven Burmeister wrote:

Am Sonntag, 23. August 2009 07:07:09 schrieb Basil Chupin:

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And, when I find something not kosher, I file a bug report and assist when asked in attempting solution.

Agreed but then am I the only one downloading Live KDE CDs and not getting anywhere?

When one downloads several copies of the (MS5 & MS6) KDE Live CDs and they all collapse with a black screen when you try and boot the CDs, is it the obvious conclusion that it is now immediately necessary for me to submit a bug report (and to provide *what* information in support of the report?) or is it more logical to first see if others are having the same problem and/or ask if others are also experiencing it? Perhaps the problem is with my hardware? in which case I need to investigate to see where the problem lies. As it happens I decided to test this out by downloading the GNOME [shudder!] version of MS6 Live CD and, as I already stated, it boots! (Mind you, I haven't yet installed it so there is still a question mark about its efficacy.)

Fair enough, so why did you not include a single info about your hardware or what you have tried already, e.g. the failsafe mode, taking pictures of the "pages of error messages", running it in a virtual machine etc.?

From my comments you would also have deduced that I do some testing before I go public about any hassle. Well, OK if you didn't know this

Sven, sit back for a moment and think about what you just wrote. If you had been reading my other posts you would already know what version of oS I am running (on both my own and my wife's computer). then you now know. Fail safe mode is one of my first options when something doesn't work correctly. Re "taking pictures of the 'pages of error messages'" - could you please tell me how I would be able to accomplish this when oS hasn't booted and the system is locked at some unknown stage of the boot and just after GRUB is activated? OK, I do have a digital camera. I guess I'll have to set it up to take photos of the screen in order to provide any pictures. Would you prefer them in jpg or png? Re a "virtual machine". If having a "virtual machine" is a condition of downloading a MS version of oS then why isn't this made well known? Why should *I* have a 'virtual machine' to try out oS? It is made available without any conditions, and made available so that "normal" users can try it and come up with comments re the release (term used in a loose sense). But, for chrissake, why doesn't whoever at Novell/openSUSE use a "virtual machine" to test the CDs/DVDs *before* making them available to the users? It would take someone at Novell/oS just a *few minutes* to stick the CD/DVD into a computer and (a) perform the Media Check, (b) try and boot the CD/DVD, and (c) try and install the oS. On a good day it takes me around 1 hour to download the Live CD - and then only to find that the damn thing is crap. It isn't of any use to come up with the lame excuse that MSx is only "alpha/beta/whatever" and therefore "yous buys your ticket and yous takes your chances". Downloading the daily build of Kubuntu 9.10, for example, does not produce any problems with having it boot or even install. I appreciate all the hard work which people are putting into oS but for heaven's sake something is not going right and a review has to be made of how the project is managed and in which direction it should go.

Instead you started with "Well, well, well, well......" and included things like "It was a complete and utter big flop" or "What does this tell me/you? The mind boggles.". All of those are of course without any implicit judgement.

On the contrary, it is full of implicit judgement. You wouldn't want to know what my explicit judgement is.

You are absolutely right that it does not make sense to argue if you do not see the difference between a posting that simply asks for help and your email.

Ce? I was simply making comments which support what others have also mentioned re problems. In any case, I do not have the time to argue and I am not arguing. BC -- Insanity is only a state of mind. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* Rajko M. [08-23-09 16:48]:

It is probably something with desktop effects active while the video driver doesn't support your hardware very well. Something that is not detectable by tests that kwin will perform to check what to do with desktop effects: enable them, or disable.

As far as I know, GNOME doesn't use them, nor attempts to use them.

And, iirc, KDE4 does not enable "desktop effects" by default. It is something that requires selection, at least on my install. That *should* not be the problem. You are correct that some analysis would be in order besides the throwing up of hands and crying alas, alas. A direct window into the system not being offered, a precise definition of equipment and steps taken and observations would help, not an admonition to retrace thru 20 previous emails which may or may not contain pertinent data. Gnome cd works, kde dont. (yes I know better). -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 23 August 2009 08:15:18 pm Basil Chupin wrote:

See also post by Rastislav Krupansky, "Check Installation media gives me result md5sum wrong", in opensuse-factory.

I've seen that, but 2 birds doesn't make flock. So, I put burned DVD to run installation media check in VirtualBox. I'll post result if it finishes before I have to go, otherwise it will be published tomorrow. The first run with DVD-RW didn't start after few minutes, so I quited that one and started one with DVD+R. -- Regards, Rajko http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Graham Anderson wrote:

On Saturday 22 August 2009 11:27:50 Basil Chupin wrote:

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What does this tell me/you? The mind boggles.

It tells me alpha software is alpha software and my mind is less than boggled.

Obviously we have different understandings about why alpha releases are put about. My understanding is that they are put about so that people can test them and look for bugs, etc.. Putting about an alpha which cannot even be booted to see what the (alpha) OS looks like is a total and an utter waste of everyone's time and effort -- and money because downloads cost money. BC -- Insanity is only a state of mind. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M. wrote:

On Saturday 22 August 2009 07:18:04 am Basil Chupin wrote:

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Putting about an alpha which cannot even be booted to see what the (alpha) OS looks like is a total and an utter waste of everyone's time and effort -- and money because downloads cost money.

The problem is that somewhere with some (most probably newer) hardware it worked before it was uploaded, or released for publishing, but the time when Novell sunk money for various hardware and paid people to test it, is gone.

It doesn't require the need to hire a nuclear scientist to simply place a burned CD or DVD into the cdrom drive and see if the damn thing even boots/runs and/or to click on the option to Check the Media. Do you remember what occurred a (?) couple of months ago when the CDs were put about which were only 400+MB big and not the ~700MB big as expected? Who was the one to find this out? A user, but not anybody at Novell/oS. And you don't need to be a brain surgeon to see that a CD is not the normal, expected size when it is being sent out to the download directory and to all the mirrors around the world. Nor is it necessary to employ any additional people for this not to occur. BC -- Insanity is only a state of mind. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M. wrote:

On Monday 24 August 2009 03:13:05 am Basil Chupin wrote:

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Do you remember what occurred a (?) couple of months ago when the CDs were put about which were only 400+MB big and not the ~700MB big as expected?

It was 422 kB :)

"Ah, yes! You remember it well..." (paraphrasing Maurice Chevalier) :-) .

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Who was the one to find this out? A user, but not anybody at Novell/oS.

Agile users, they see all. (Talking from experience with People of openSUSE.)

Above also tells you how they are created, and who should test them :) Well, MS is checked by release manager. Those that you refer to are completely automatic Factory snapshot, that are created to allow users that follow factory to avoid changes in the middle of update.

Which reminds me of the story about the passengers on a flight who heard the voice over the intercom after take-off, "This is the captain speaking. Welcome to the first ever, fully automatic, controlled by computer, flight. Let me assure you that nothing can go wrong....can go wrong.....can go wrong.....can go wrong....". BC -- Great Man reaches complete understanding of the main issues; Petty Man reaches complete understanding of the minute details." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org