On 2018-08-16 05:31, Basil Chupin wrote:

On 16/8/18 8:58 am, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Hi,

I got a new email address from GMX, and I'm trying to subscribe, using Alpine and Postfix.

I get this error sequence:

<pruned>

From what I just read on the GMX website it appears to me that it is meant to be used for Apple and Android devices and also one has to use s/ware provided by GMX. But that is my take on it, and I am probably wrong.

No, they have instructions for several different applications. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 2018-08-16 08:10, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Hi,

I got a new email address from GMX, and I'm trying to subscribe, using Alpine and Postfix.

I get this error sequence:

<2.5> 2018-08-15 23:56:30 Telcontar amavis 7466 - - (07466-17) Passed CLEAN {RelayedOutbound}, MYNETS LOCAL [127.0.0.1]:43576 -> ,

Okay, so this is your confirmation of subscription to opensuse-gnome@o.o.

...

<2.6> 2018-08-15 23:56:31 Telcontar postfix 1680 - - Trusted TLS connection established to mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.184]:25: TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)

Secure connection established.

...

<2.6> 2018-08-15 23:56:31 Telcontar postfix 1680 - - D920E320833: to=, relay=mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.184]:25, delay=0.81, delays=0.01/0/0.69/0.11, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.184] said: 550-Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable 550 Failure sending mail. Try again later (in reply to RCPT TO command))

I don't use GMX, but don't you have to authenticate to send mail ?

It worked initially, with the subscription to opensuse@opensuse.org. Then I sent an email subscribing to 17 mail lists (in a single email), and problems started. So my configuration should be correct, it is them doing something. They have not responded. Ah! Despite being gmx.es, it appears I have to tell them in English. Their error emails are in English. See, this is a successful send: <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:29:24 Telcontar amavis 7466 - - (07466-09) Jq8lsOFBrz1Y FWD from -> , BODY=7BIT 250 2.0.0 from MTA(smtp:[127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 2E484320798 <2.5> 2018-08-15 23:29:24 Telcontar amavis 7466 - - (07466-09) Passed CLEAN {RelayedOutbound}, MYNETS LOCAL [127.0.0.1]:41800 -> , Queue-ID: DFCCD320787, Message-ID: , mail_id: Jq8lsOFBrz1Y, Hits: -, size: 666, queued_as: 2E484320798, 219 ms <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:29:24 Telcontar postfix 30858 - - DFCCD320787: to=, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=0.31, delays=0.06/0.01/0.05/0.19, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 from MTA(smtp:[127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 2E484320798) <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:29:24 Telcontar postfix 4608 - - DFCCD320787: removed <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:29:24 Telcontar postfix 30862 - - Trusted TLS connection established to mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.184]:25: TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits) <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:29:25 Telcontar postfix 30862 - - 2E484320798: to=, relay=mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.184]:25, delay=1.3, delays=0.01/0.02/0.71/0.53, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 Requested mail action okay, completed: id=0LyWAQ-1ftr0s40L0-015u9N) <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:29:25 Telcontar postfix 4608 - - 2E484320798: removed Postfix is configured to authenticate when they ask. Same method as it works with Telefónica: 2.6> 2018-08-16 04:29:04 Telcontar amavis 8451 - - (08451-04) flm4TtKjl28c FWD from -> , BODY=7BIT 250 2.0.0 from MTA(smtp:[127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queue d as 5452B320837 <2.5> 2018-08-16 04:29:04 Telcontar amavis 8451 - - (08451-04) Passed CLEAN {RelayedOutbound}, MYNETS LOCAL [127.0.0.1]:33282 -> , Queue-ID: 2785532082D, Message-I D: <1011113c-6fd2-a4cb-ca5b-98796cbbf3b7@telefonica.net>, mail_id: flm4TtKjl28c, Hits: -, size: 5593, queued_as: 5452B320837, 175 ms <2.6> 2018-08-16 04:29:04 Telcontar postfix 18811 - - 2785532082D: to=, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=0.23, delays=0.04/0.01/0.01/0.17, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 from MTA(smtp :[127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 5452B320837) <2.6> 2018-08-16 04:29:04 Telcontar postfix 4608 - - 2785532082D: removed <2.6> 2018-08-16 04:29:04 Telcontar dovecot - - - imap(cer): Connection closed (noop finished 0.099 secs ago) in=6415 out=805269 <2.6> 2018-08-16 04:29:04 Telcontar postfix 18815 - - Anonymous TLS connection established to smtp.telefonica.net[86.109.99.70]:25: TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits) <2.6> 2018-08-16 04:29:05 Telcontar postfix 18815 - - 5452B320837: to=, relay=smtp.telefonica.net[86.109.99.70]:25, delay=1.3, delays=0.01/0.03/0.24/1, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok: que ued as 41rVdY3QF1zfb8g) <2.6> 2018-08-16 04:29:05 Telcontar postfix 4608 - - 5452B320837: removed or gmail: <2.6> 2018-08-11 15:34:06 Telcontar amavis 2469 - - (02469-13) WsTSYjSzwm5G FWD from -> , BODY=7BIT 250 2.0.0 from MTA(smtp:[127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as F1B0E3 207A4 <2.5> 2018-08-11 15:34:07 Telcontar amavis 2469 - - (02469-13) Passed CLEAN {RelayedOutbound}, MYNETS LOCAL [127.0.0.1]:58100 -> , Queue-ID: D465A320746, Message-ID: <681a0af 1-e6b9-2df7-cc03-b4ec4bec5dca@gmail.com>, mail_id: WsTSYjSzwm5G, Hits: -, size: 3970, queued_as: F1B0E3207A4, 110 ms <2.6> 2018-08-11 15:34:07 Telcontar postfix 20529 - - D465A320746: to=, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=0.17, delays=0.05/0.01/0/0.11, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 from MTA(smtp:[127.0.0 .1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as F1B0E3207A4) <2.6> 2018-08-11 15:34:07 Telcontar postfix 4608 - - D465A320746: removed <2.6> 2018-08-11 15:34:07 Telcontar postfix 20533 - - Trusted TLS connection established to smtp.gmail.com[64.233.184.109]:25: TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits) <2.6> 2018-08-11 15:34:07 Telcontar dovecot - - - imap(cer): Connection closed (IDLE running for 0.001 + waiting input for 0.001 secs, 0.001 in locks, 2 B in + 10+10 B out, state=wait-input) in=9708 out=26206 <2.6> 2018-08-11 15:34:08 Telcontar postfix 20533 - - F1B0E3207A4: to=, relay=smtp.gmail.com[64.233.184.109]:25, delay=2, delays=0.01/0.01/0.6/1.4, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 OK 1533994448 j6- v6sm17740909wrs.91 - gsmtp) <2.6> 2018-08-11 15:34:08 Telcontar postfix 4608 - - F1B0E3207A4: removed Unless I tell postfix to log SASL, the authentication is not recorded. And I assure you Gmail is very strict. I have just added to main.cf: debug_peer_list = mail.gmx.es But today, I can send: <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar amavis 6489 - - (06489-10) LYSY6lljeE8I FWD from -> , BODY=7BIT 250 2.0.0 from MTA(smtp:[127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 9C71A320787 <2.5> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar amavis 6489 - - (06489-10) Passed CLEAN {RelayedOutbound}, MYNETS LOCAL [127.0.0.1]:35344 -> , Queue-ID: BD06F320746, Message-ID: , mail_id: LYSY6lljeE8I, Hits: -, size: 947, queued_as: 9C71A320787, 770 ms <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11744 - - BD06F320746: to=, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=0.91, delays=0.06/0.01/0.17/0.68, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 from MTA(smtp:[127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 9C71A320787) <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11494 - - BD06F320746: removed <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - smtp_stream_setup: maxtime=300 enable_deadline=0 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 220 gmx.com (mrgmx103) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - > mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: EHLO Telcontar.valinor <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 250-gmx.com Hello Telcontar.valinor [79.156.56.59] <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 250-SIZE 69920427 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 250 STARTTLS <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - match_string: smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter: login ~? cram-md5 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - match_string: smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter: login ~? login <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - match_string: smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter: plain ~? cram-md5 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - match_string: smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter: plain ~? login <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - match_list_match: PLAIN: no match <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - server features: 0x1039 size 69920427 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - smtp_stream_setup: maxtime=300 enable_deadline=0 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - > mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: STARTTLS <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 220 OK <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - send attr request = lookup <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - send attr cache_type = smtp <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - send attr cache_id = smtp&[mail.gmx.es]&mail.gmx.es&212.227.17.174&&7112783C2C619607B67ED28CB7FBD73D22EAFFEAB67AC87383F393D4B34A88E6 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - private/tlsmgr: wanted attribute: status <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - input attribute name: status <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - input attribute value: 4294967295 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - private/tlsmgr: wanted attribute: session <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - input attribute name: session <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - input attribute value: (end) <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - private/tlsmgr: wanted attribute: (list terminator) <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - input attribute name: (end) <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - send attr request = seed <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - send attr size = 32 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - private/tlsmgr: wanted attribute: status <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - input attribute name: status <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - input attribute value: 0 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - private/tlsmgr: wanted attribute: seed <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - input attribute name: seed <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - input attribute value: PioWCyCSjn+PiIYLku+XLthwvJeErDIKw8ttmFG6ENo= <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - private/tlsmgr: wanted attribute: (list terminator) <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - input attribute name: (end) <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - send attr request = update <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - send attr cache_type = smtp <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:50 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - send attr cache_id = smtp&[mail.gmx.es]&mail.gmx.es&212.227.17.174&&7112783C2C619607B67ED28CB7FBD73D22EAFFEAB67AC87383F393D4B34A88E6 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - send attr session = [data 1786 bytes] <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - private/tlsmgr: wanted attribute: status <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - input attribute name: status <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - input attribute value: 0 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - private/tlsmgr: wanted attribute: (list terminator) <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - input attribute name: (end) <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - Trusted TLS connection established to mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits) <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - smtp_stream_setup: maxtime=300 enable_deadline=0 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - > mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: EHLO Telcontar.valinor <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 250-gmx.com Hello Telcontar.valinor [79.156.56.59] <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 250 SIZE 69920427 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - match_string: smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter: login ~? cram-md5 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - match_string: smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter: login ~? login <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - match_string: smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter: plain ~? cram-md5 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - match_string: smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter: plain ~? login <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - match_list_match: PLAIN: no match <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - server features: 0x1029 size 69920427 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - maps_find: smtp_sasl_password_maps: hash:/etc/postfix/sasl_passwd(0,lock|fold_fix|utf8_request): robin.listas@gmx.es = robin.listas@gmx.es:..... <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - mail_addr_find: robin.listas@gmx.es -> robin.listas@gmx.es:..... <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - smtp_sasl_passwd_lookup: host `mail.gmx.es' user `robin.listas...' pass `....' <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - starting new SASL client <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - name_mask: noanonymous <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - smtp_sasl_authenticate: mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: SASL mechanisms LOGIN <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - > mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: AUTH LOGIN <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 334 VXNlcm5hbWU6 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - xsasl_cyrus_client_next: decoded challenge: Username: <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - xsasl_cyrus_client_get_user: ........... <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - xsasl_cyrus_client_get_passwd: ......... <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - xsasl_cyrus_client_next: uncoded client response robin.listas@gmx.es <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - > mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: .......... <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 334 ........ <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - xsasl_cyrus_client_next: decoded challenge: Password: <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - xsasl_cyrus_client_next: uncoded client response ......... <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - > mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: ........... <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 235 Authentication succeeded <===== <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - smtp_stream_setup: maxtime=300 enable_deadline=0 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - > mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: MAIL FROM: SIZE=1398 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - smtp_stream_setup: maxtime=300 enable_deadline=0 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 250 Requested mail action okay, completed <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - > mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: RCPT TO: <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - smtp_stream_setup: maxtime=300 enable_deadline=0 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 250 OK <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - > mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: DATA <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - smtp_stream_setup: maxtime=120 enable_deadline=0 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 354 Start mail input; end with <CRLF>.<CRLF> <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - smtp_stream_setup: maxtime=180 enable_deadline=0 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - > mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: . <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - smtp_stream_setup: maxtime=600 enable_deadline=0 <2.6> 2018-08-16 12:53:51 Telcontar postfix 11751 - - < mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: 250 Requested mail action okay, completed: id=0McUnM-1fYaXH1VeS-00Hbtf It seems to me they are not reliable. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2018-08-16 at 13:11 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2018-08-16 08:10, Per Jessen wrote:

It worked initially, with the subscription to opensuse@opensuse.org. Then I sent an email subscribing to 17 mail lists (in a single email), and problems started.

So my configuration should be correct, it is them doing something. They have not responded.

What kind of authentication do they use - pop-before-smtp or sasl?

Sasl. You can see it in the log.

...

Postfix is configured to authenticate when they ask.

Normally the smtp relay doesn't ask, it offers :-)

Anyway, so it worked, except for the first example you sent. Is that the only one or did you get many rejects?

After some point, all were rejected, till now.

...

But today, I can send:

Aha, good.

...

It seems to me they are not reliable.

It seems to me you are too quick to judge :-)

They still have not replied to me. It is 13 o'clock. I only got an automated response telling me to look at stupid buttons. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlt1XgkACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VbUwCgg3b6zTd/B/d3ruh5j4ROhDOb Xo8An0+0gN0fZYbChOvQwAIfH0QmT7LR =nJpI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

opensuse delivers to the ISPs at the same second, but GMX delays for a minute or two before appearing in my inbox, yet this fact is not displayed in their received headers.

It doesn't matter much, but where can this delay be observed? Contrary to what many people think, email is _not_ instant messaging. Maybe GMX de-prioritises non-paying customers? My company certainly does. It's quite typical of freemium services. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (21.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2018-08-16 22:49, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2018-08-16 21:35, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

opensuse delivers to the ISPs at the same second, but GMX delays for a minute or two before appearing in my inbox, yet this fact is not displayed in their received headers.

It doesn't matter much, but where can this delay be observed? Contrary to what many people think, email is _not_ instant messaging. Maybe GMX de-prioritises non-paying customers? My company certainly does. It's quite typical of freemium services.

Well, I was impatiently waiting for my own sent email to appear, and it was slower than Telefónica by minutes. I did not check with Gmail.

It is working fast now. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 2018-08-17 08:57, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2018-08-16 21:35, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

opensuse delivers to the ISPs at the same second, but GMX delays for a minute or two before appearing in my inbox, yet this fact is not displayed in their received headers.

It doesn't matter much, but where can this delay be observed? Contrary to what many people think, email is _not_ instant messaging. Maybe GMX de-prioritises non-paying customers? My company certainly does. It's quite typical of freemium services.

Well, I was impatiently waiting for my own sent email to appear, and it was slower than Telefónica by minutes. I did not check with Gmail.

(later, I noticed other emails arriving instantly at gmx)

...

I was going to consider being a paying customer, but they never offered to me anything else but the free service. I was unable to find anywhere on their page "pay service", and find out what the differences are.

Ah, that's weird. I didn't look closer at the .es site, but e.g. in Switzerland, they offer various email, calendaring and cloud services.

They do, but they don't say if they are pay or not. Nowhere does it mention "pay service" so that I can go and see what advantages it has. If I get a bigger account and a professional client service that doesn't respond with stupid automated writeups, I would pay happily. I do not want calendaring or cloud.

...

And as they block my IP based on stupid spamhouse classification, it is clear I can not use them. Telefónica is often listed, yet Gmail never blocks me because of that. If I switch to them and they block me, I can not even email them! Absurd.

It is absurd to ban authenticated clients based on spammer lists.

That is of course silly, yes. I thought it was just the NDR that got blocked, and not by mail.gmx.es ?

At least, that is what they said. I suspect they did not investigate. What happened was, the sent message bounces. The bounce message is sent "From: <>" by postfix, to me @gmx.es, which means that postfix can not authenticate, because it is <> (daemon?), not me, so SASL can not authenticate as me. Then it evaluates that I'm in a spamhouse IP list, and blocks the bounce (something that happens often with other providers). Mind, the bounce, the initial message was rejected for a different reason. So we have: initial message: 550-Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable 550 Failure sending mail. Try again later (in reply to RCPT TO command) bounced message that should tell me about the above: host mx00.gmx.net[212.227.15.10] refused to talk to me: 554-gmx.net (mxgmx016) Nemesis ESMTP Service not available 554-No SMTP service 554-IP address is black listed. 554 For explanation visit http://postmaster.gmx.com/en/error-messages?ip=79.156.56.59&c=bl What I saw first was mailq complaining about the second error, a dozen of them. This confused me for some time, and I did not see the first error. I think that the GMX person also evaluated this second issue, not the first one. The solution to this second issue is this: /etc/postfix/virtual: robin.listas@gmx.es cer Thus an email sent to me goes internally to my system and does not try the external route. After I did this, I attempted another mail send and this time I got the bounce email in my inbox. What originated the first issue? I don't know. Some configuration error on their part? It says mailbox not available. Says to try later, but a 550 code makes postfix to abort and not try later, despite the error text. What I had done immediately before the problem started was a subscribe email with 17 destination addresses (which nowhere says "forbidden"). This email arrived at destination (opensuse) and I got 15 subscription confirmation requests and one failure (opensuse-java+subscribe@opensuse.org), one no response. Then I started to reply to each confirmation, and these failed. I complained, and half a day later things worked, but the response I got doesn't compute. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 2018-08-17 17:40, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E.R. wrote:

...

...

...

And as they block my IP based on stupid spamhouse classification, it is clear I can not use them. Telefónica is often listed, yet Gmail never blocks me because of that. If I switch to them and they block me, I can not even email them! Absurd.

It is absurd to ban authenticated clients based on spammer lists.

That is of course silly, yes. I thought it was just the NDR that got blocked, and not by mail.gmx.es ?

At least, that is what they said. I suspect they did not investigate.

What happened was, the sent message bounces.

The bounce message is sent "From: <>" by postfix, to me @gmx.es, which means that postfix can not authenticate, because it is <> (daemon?), not me, so SASL can not authenticate as me.

Uh, that isn't necessarily correct - unless you have set it up like that?

When I redirect them to "cer", this is the header - notice the first line: +++-------------------------------- Return-Path: <> X-Original-To: robin.listas@gmx.es Delivered-To: cer@Telcontar.valinor Received: by Telcontar.valinor (Postfix) id 828A5320833; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 00:46:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 00:46:27 +0200 (CEST) From: MAILER-DAEMON@Telcontar.valinor (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: robin.listas@gmx.es Auto-Submitted: auto-replied MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="1097A320834.1534373187/Telcontar.valinor" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20180815224627.828A5320833@Telcontar.valinor> Parts/Attachments: 1 Shown 17 lines Text, "Notification" 2 Shown 555 bytes Message, "Delivery report" 3 Shown 1.7 KB Message, "Undelivered Message" 3.1 Shown 15 lines Text ---------------------------------------- This is the mail system at host Telcontar.valinor. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The mail system : host mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.184] said: 550-Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable 550 Failure sending mail. Try again later (in reply to RCPT TO command) [ Part 2: "Delivery report" ] Reporting-MTA: dns; Telcontar.valinor X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 1097A320834 X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; robin.listas@gmx.es Arrival-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 00:46:26 +0200 (CEST) Final-Recipient: rfc822; opensuse-kde+confsub-4d450baa39cd12c7-robin.listas=gmx.es@opensuse.org Original-Recipient: rfc822;opensuse-kde+confsub-4d450baa39cd12c7-robin.listas=gmx.es@opensuse.org Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 Remote-MTA: dns; mail.gmx.es Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550-Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable 550 Failure sending mail. Try again later ... --------------------------------++- If I search for that X-Postfix-Queue-ID in the log, I find the event: <2.6> 2018-08-16 00:46:26 Telcontar postfix 6057 - - Trusted TLS connection established to mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.184]:25: TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits) <2.6> 2018-08-16 00:46:27 Telcontar postfix 6057 - - 1097A320834: to=, relay=mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.184]:25, delay=1.3, delays=0.01/0.02/0.92/0.39, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.184] said: 550-Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable 550 Failure sending mail. Try again later (in reply to RCPT TO command)) <2.6> 2018-08-16 00:46:27 Telcontar postfix 6051 - - 828A5320833: message-id=<20180815224627.828A5320833@Telcontar.valinor> <2.6> 2018-08-16 00:46:27 Telcontar postfix 4608 - - 828A5320833: from=<>, size=3907, nrcpt=1 (queue active) <2.6> 2018-08-16 00:46:27 Telcontar postfix 6059 - - 1097A320834: sender non-delivery notification: 828A5320833 <2.6> 2018-08-16 00:46:27 Telcontar postfix 4608 - - 1097A320834: removed Now we have to search for 828A5320833, which is on the next line: <2.6> 2018-08-16 00:46:27 Telcontar dovecot - - - lda(cer): msgid=<20180815224627.828A5320833@Telcontar.valinor>: saved mail to in_daemon <2.6> 2018-08-16 00:46:27 Telcontar postfix 6060 - - 828A5320833: to=, orig_to=, relay=local, delay=0.34, delays=0.01/0.01/0/0.33, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/bin/procmail) <2.6> 2018-08-16 00:46:27 Telcontar postfix 4608 - - 828A5320833: removed That is the sequence for a redirected to "cer" one. Let's find one that was not redirected. <2.5> 2018-08-15 23:52:19 Telcontar amavis 25041 - - (25041-12) Passed CLEAN {RelayedOutbound}, MYNETS LOCAL [127.0.0.1]:43148 -> , Queue-ID: E2E17320798, Message-ID: , mail_id: FUpb3qKQaR6H, Hits: -, size: 7920, queued_as: 03DB73207BA, 1012 ms <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:52:19 Telcontar postfix 1675 - - E2E17320798: to=, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=1.1, delays=0.06/0.01/0.16/0.91, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 from MTA(smtp:[127.0.0.1]:100 25): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 03DB73207BA) <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:52:19 Telcontar postfix 4608 - - E2E17320798: removed <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:52:19 Telcontar postfix 1680 - - Trusted TLS connection established to mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25: TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits) <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:52:20 Telcontar postfix 1680 - - 03DB73207BA: to=, relay=mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174]:25, delay=1.4, delays=0.01/0.05/0.84/0.53, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host mail.gmx.es[212.227.17.174] said: 550-Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable 550 Failure sending mail. Try again later (in reply to RCPT TO command)) <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:52:20 Telcontar postfix 1673 - - 8BDC83207A3: message-id=<20180815215220.8BDC83207A3@Telcontar.valinor> <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:52:20 Telcontar postfix 1693 - - 03DB73207BA: sender non-delivery notification: 8BDC83207A3 <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:52:20 Telcontar postfix 4608 - - 8BDC83207A3: from=<>, size=3213, nrcpt=1 (queue active) <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:52:20 Telcontar postfix 4608 - - 03DB73207BA: removed <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:52:20 Telcontar postfix 1680 - - 8BDC83207A3: host mx01.gmx.net[212.227.17.4] refused to talk to me: 554-gmx.net (mxgmx115) Nemesis ESMTP Service not available 554-No SMTP service 554-IP address is black listed. 554 For explanation visit http://postmaster.gmx.com/en/error-messages?ip=79.156.56.59&c=bl <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:52:20 Telcontar postfix 1680 - - 8BDC83207A3: to=, relay=mx00.gmx.net[212.227.15.10]:25, delay=0.27, delays=0/0/0.27/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host mx00.gmx.net[212.227.15.10] refused to talk to me: 554-gmx.net (mxgmx017) Nemesis ESMTP Service not available 554-No SMTP service 554-IP address is black listed. 554 For explanation visit http://postmaster.gmx.com/en/error-messages?ip=79.156.56.59&c=bl) First 03DB73207BA bounces (mailbox unavailable 550). Then the bounce message itself 8BDC83207A3 is refused (554-IP address is black listed). Notice this: <2.6> 2018-08-15 23:52:20 Telcontar postfix 4608 - - 8BDC83207A3: from=<>, size=3213, nrcpt=1 (queue active) See the "from=<>"? With "from=<>" postfix can not authentify as me using SASL to gmx.

...

Then it evaluates that I'm in a spamhouse IP list, and blocks the bounce (something that happens often with other providers). Mind, the bounce, the initial message was rejected for a different reason.

The bounce to "you@gmx.es" is also being sent to mx0[01].gmx.net - different servers. As your address is presumably dynamic, that isn't so unusual. (Don't you have a Telefonica smarthost?}

NO! That's what many people outside of Spain do not understand: providers here do not allow "smarthost". I have to authentify as myself for every email that I send, using a different ID for each email. If I send From: me_1@telefonica, I have to identify as me_1@telefonica. If the next post is From: me_2@telefonica, I have to identify as me_2@telefonica. If the next post is From: me_3@telefonica, I have to identify as me_3@telefonica. I can not identify as me_1@telefonica if the From is me_3@telefonica! I have *NEVER* being able to do that with *any* ISP. (with the limited exception of gmail, if you first register that address with them, and still use this type of ID/Pass) Thus I have to either use Thunderbird with a different SMTP sending configuration for each account (Thunderbird supports this automatically), or use a clever but unusual (for normal people) postfix configuration via /etc/postfix/sender_relayhost. sender_dependent_relayhost_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/sender_relayhost Ie: postfix choose a different relayhost based on the FROM address of every single message. If the from is not listed in that file, then it tries in the manner it would do on a default postfix configuration: do it himself. So it looks at the DNS: cer@Telcontar:~> host gmx.es gmx.es has address 213.165.64.8 gmx.es mail is handled by 10 mx00.gmx.net. gmx.es mail is handled by 10 mx01.gmx.net. cer@Telcontar:~> and tries to send directly to mx0[01].gmx.net, and is refused because blacklisted. Documentation: /usr/share/doc/packages/postfix-doc/README_FILES/SASL_README *Configuring Sender-Dependent SASL authentication* Postfix supports different ISP accounts for different sender addresses (version 2.3 and later). This can be useful when one person uses the same machine for work and for personal use, or when people with different ISP accounts share the same Postfix server. To make this possible, Postfix supports per-sender SASL passwords and per- sender relay hosts. In the example below, the Postfix SMTP client will search the SASL password file by sender address before it searches that same file by destination. Likewise, the Postfix trivial-rewrite(8) daemon will search the per-sender relayhost file, and use the default relayhost setting only as a final resort. /etc/postfix/main.cf: smtp_sender_dependent_authentication = yes sender_dependent_relayhost_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/sender_relay smtp_sasl_auth_enable = yes smtp_sasl_password_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/sasl_passwd relayhost = [mail.isp.example] # Alternative form: # relayhost = [mail.isp.example]:submission /etc/postfix/sasl_passwd: # Per-sender authentication; see also /etc/postfix/sender_relay. user1@example.com username1:password1 user2@example.net username2:password2 # Login information for the default relayhost. [mail.isp.example] username:password # Alternative form: # [mail.isp.example]:submission username:password /etc/postfix/sender_relay: # Per-sender provider; see also /etc/postfix/sasl_passwd. user1@example.com [mail.example.com]:submission user2@example.net [mail.example.net]

...

So we have:

initial message:

550-Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable 550 Failure sending mail. Try again later (in reply to RCPT TO command)

bounced message that should tell me about the above:

host mx00.gmx.net[212.227.15.10] refused to talk to me: 554-gmx.net (mxgmx016) Nemesis ESMTP Service not available 554-No SMTP service 554-IP address is black listed. 554 For explanation visit http://postmaster.gmx.com/en/error-messages?ip=79.156.56.59&c=bl

Listed by Spamhaus PBL, according to Telefonica policy.

??? You mean that Telefonica sets somewhere that MY IP is not to be allowed to send email? Good grief. They could clearly explain that. Anyway, that doesn't matter. I know that the solution is redirect to cer, daemon is not allowed to send bounce messages from <>.

...

What originated the first issue? I don't know. Some configuration error on their part? It says mailbox not available. Says to try later, but a 550 code makes postfix to abort and not try later, despite the error text.

Yes, that was an odd error.

So it is. No further information from them. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 2018-08-18 10:47, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

See the "from=<>"?

With "from=<>" postfix can not authentify as me using SASL to gmx.

I presume you use "smtp_sasl_password_maps" ? The last entry in the map is the default.

Yes, but sender_dependent_relayhost_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/sender_relayhost overrides it. Meaning, sender_relayhost chooses the relay, based on the From address. sender_relayhost: address_1@telefonica.net [smtp.telefonica.net] address_2@telefonica.net [smtp.telefonica.net] address_3@telefonica.net [smtp.telefonica.net] address_1@gmail.com [smtp.gmail.com] address_2@gmail.com [smtp.gmail.com] address_3@gmail.com [smtp.gmail.com] Then sasl_passwd has: address_1@telefonica.net address_1:pass_1 address_2@telefonica.net address_2:pass_2 address_3@telefonica.net address_3:pass_3 address_1@gmail.com address_1@gmail.com:passg_1 address_2@gmail.com address_2@gmail.com:passg_2 address_3@gmail.com address_3@gmail.com:passg_3 So, if I try to send from address_4@telefonica.net, I can't. NOBODY with Telefonica can, only the person that owns the address address_4@telefonica.net and has its password. If I have a shop with a hundred telefonica addresses, I need 100 passwords and different 100 logins. If I had a smarthost, it would be something like this: telefonica.net login:pass gmail.com login@gmail.com:passg_1 And the hundred telefonica addresses would use the same login/pass/relay. I know that this is hard to understand for you, but this is the way it has ever been in Spain, with all the different providers I had in two decades.

...

...

...

Then it evaluates that I'm in a spamhouse IP list, and blocks the bounce (something that happens often with other providers). Mind, the bounce, the initial message was rejected for a different reason.

The bounce to "you@gmx.es" is also being sent to mx0[01].gmx.net - different servers. As your address is presumably dynamic, that isn't so unusual. (Don't you have a Telefonica smarthost?}

NO!

That's what many people outside of Spain do not understand: providers here do not allow "smarthost". I have to authentify as myself for every email that I send, using a different ID for each email.

Carlos, that _is_ a smarthost. Of course with authentication, that is the only sensible thing.

A real smarthost would allow me to send any post with any from address. Like having a business and sending all the post of the company via that smarthost. A smarthost relays ALL the email of the site. I don't have that. I have half a dozen at least, one per account. As I have 4 telefonica addresses, I need 4 telefonica smarthosts. That is not smart.

...

If I send From: me_1@telefonica, I have to identify as me_1@telefonica. If the next post is From: me_2@telefonica, I have to identify as me_2@telefonica. If the next post is From: me_3@telefonica, I have to identify as me_3@telefonica.

That is certainly very strict, but okay. Does that mean you can't send from <> either then? I guess most MUA would not have reason to do that.

I can't, that is correct. Notice however that the bounce mail is an email automatically generated by the MTA, not the MUA.

...

...

...

host mx00.gmx.net[212.227.15.10] refused to talk to me: 554-gmx.net (mxgmx016) Nemesis ESMTP Service not available 554-No SMTP service 554-IP address is black listed. 554 For explanation visit http://postmaster.gmx.com/en/error-messages?ip=79.156.56.59&c=bl

Listed by Spamhaus PBL, according to Telefonica policy.

???

You mean that Telefonica sets somewhere that MY IP is not to be allowed to send email? Good grief. They could clearly explain that.

It is not all that unusual, in fact a very typical anti-spam measure:

https://www.spamhaus.org/pbl/query/PBL362389

79.156.0.0/16 is listed on the Policy Block List (PBL)

Outbound Email Policy of Telefónica for this IP range:

It is the policy of Telefónica that unauthenticated email sent from this IP address should be sent out only via the designated outbound mail server allocated to Telefónica customers. To find the hostname of the correct mail server to use, customers should consult the original signup documentation or contact Telefónica Technical Support.

Right. This is new. Well, as postfix doesn't know what relay to use for <> email, it uses none, tries to send directly and is refused per the above rule. And doesn't know because there is no smarthosting in Spain. Maybe with a business contract. If it is not still clear: An email in which the From is "address_1@telefonica.net", can not send using the "address_2:pass_2" login/pass. It mandatorily has to use address_1 login. An email with "me@opensuse.org" can not be sent using smtp.telefonica.net as relay. Even being a telefonica client. NEVER. The stance of Telefónica is "ask opensuse.org to send it". Nor can it be sent by default using smtp.gmail.com by default. Only after I ask/register "me@opensuse.org" with them, and then I have to use login as "me@gmail.com", and the address "me@gmail.com" is included in the headers of the email as information. (Ditto for me@ieee.org) Thus an email with <> can not use any relayhost at all, because there is no "From" to match with. This is NOT SMART. I refuse to call that a smarthost, sorry. The smart part is missing. Sorry if I seem harsh or something. I'm quite pissed with the situation. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 2018-08-18 15:09, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

If I have a shop with a hundred telefonica addresses, I need 100 passwords and different 100 logins.

Right. That actually makes sense, except that they also check the From: address ? (ie. not just the envelope)

AFAIK, that is so. Same for other providers I tried during two decades. Notice that postfix added explicit support for this situation, about just in time when I needed it, when it became impossible to send directly because tightening antispam measures. /usr/share/doc/packages/postfix-doc/README_FILES/SASL_README *Configuring Sender-Dependent SASL authentication* Postfix supports different ISP accounts for different sender addresses (version 2.3 and later).

...

...

...

...

...

Then it evaluates that I'm in a spamhouse IP list, and blocks the bounce (something that happens often with other providers). Mind, the bounce, the initial message was rejected for a different reason.

The bounce to "you@gmx.es" is also being sent to mx0[01].gmx.net - different servers. As your address is presumably dynamic, that isn't so unusual. (Don't you have a Telefonica smarthost?}

NO!

That's what many people outside of Spain do not understand: providers here do not allow "smarthost". I have to authentify as myself for every email that I send, using a different ID for each email.

Carlos, that _is_ a smarthost. Of course with authentication, that is the only sensible thing.

A real smarthost would allow me to send any post with any from address. Like having a business and sending all the post of the company via that smarthost. A smarthost relays ALL the email of the site.

Well, maybe I'm being pedantic, but a mailserver that relays mails as you describe is still a smarthost. That it comes with restrictions and requires authentication doesn't change that.

...

From wikipedia: "A smart host is a type of email message transfer agent that allows a Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP) server to route email to an intermediate mailserver rather than directly to the recipient's server. This smart host often requires authentication ...".

It is not smart because it does not allow me to send with several from addresses. It does not allow a client to send ALL his email. I'm also pedantic on that ;-) The wikipedia also says: «When a host runs its own local mail server, a smart host is often used to transmit all mail to other systems through a central mail server. This is used to ease the management of a single mail server with aliases, security, and Internet access rather than maintaining numerous local mail servers.» Notice "transmit all mail" via single smarthost.

...

...

It is the policy of Telefónica that unauthenticated email sent from this IP address should be sent out only via the designated outbound mail server allocated to Telefónica customers. To find the hostname of the correct mail server to use, customers should consult the original signup documentation or contact Telefónica Technical Support.

Right.

This is new.

Well, as postfix doesn't know what relay to use for <> email, it uses none, tries to send directly and is refused per the above rule.

You could set a default relayhost for that situation, but when Telefonica does not permit a null sender ....

Nobody I know allows it. If postfix would in that situation look at the destination address instead, and choose the smarthost based on the destination, using the appropriate login-pass based on destination, not the origin, it /might/ work. Which is basically what I do, kind of: /etc/postfix/virtual: robin.listas@telefonica.net cer An email that is addressed to me is routed by postfix directly to my local user and is not send to the "smarthost". Applies to all mails, not just those with null sender. Unless there is some other way to set alternate routing for null sender posts. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 2018-08-18 16:09, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

...

Well, as postfix doesn't know what relay to use for <> email, it uses none, tries to send directly and is refused per the above rule.

You could set a default relayhost for that situation, but when Telefonica does not permit a null sender ....

Nobody I know allows it.

It does make sense. We don't allow it either - our customers that subscribe to the outbound filter cannot send a bounce message. Basically, they have little reason to.

You have no clients using Linux, with postfix and Alpine ;-p I don't send bounce messages; postfix does.

...

If postfix would in that situation look at the destination address instead, and choose the smarthost based on the destination, using the appropriate login-pass based on destination, not the origin, it /might/ work.

That sounds like a transport map.

...

Unless there is some other way to set alternate routing for null sender posts.

I think this might do it -

set a default relayhost, and use sender_dependent_relayhost_maps for everything else ?

And what default relayhost would it be? All the ISPs here refuse to transport email that does not come with a "From" from them. If I say the default relayhost is telefonica, and the mail has a "me@gmail.com" address, it will refuse to transport it. Even if I am a paying Telefonica client. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2018-08-18 a las 18:09 +0200, Per Jessen escribió:

Carlos E.R. wrote:

...

On 2018-08-18 16:09, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

...

...

Well, as postfix doesn't know what relay to use for <> email, it uses none, tries to send directly and is refused per the above rule.

You could set a default relayhost for that situation, but when Telefonica does not permit a null sender ....

Nobody I know allows it.

It does make sense. We don't allow it either - our customers that subscribe to the outbound filter cannot send a bounce message. Basically, they have little reason to.

You have no clients using Linux, with postfix and Alpine ;-p

I don't send bounce messages; postfix does.

What I meant was - they would only want/need to send an NDR if their server tried to forward a mail. Even in that case, the NDR would go to a local address.

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If postfix would in that situation look at the destination address instead, and choose the smarthost based on the destination, using the appropriate login-pass based on destination, not the origin, it /might/ work.

That sounds like a transport map.

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Unless there is some other way to set alternate routing for null sender posts.

I think this might do it -

set a default relayhost, and use sender_dependent_relayhost_maps for everything else ?

And what default relayhost would it be?

Always send it to yourself perhaps?

Will only work if the destination address is mine, which has to be done via the "virtual" map file without having a default relayhost. If postfix doesn't recognize the destination address as local, it will try to send outside or enter a loop. Another thing would be to drop <> mails or send them all to a local folder. That would be very nice. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlt4SQ8ACgkQja8UbcUWM1yHTwEAhXWlVHY3ZQ3OH5nEVDuOMW2r XNwON7jDzALU/7N6TiQA/0fVckrRawi02DZoP3d6tZAIApUjwAzbk2UzOUQO547a =9dT6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On 2018-08-19 10:31, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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El 2018-08-18 a las 18:09 +0200, Per Jessen escribió:

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Carlos E.R. wrote:

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If postfix would in that situation look at the destination address instead, and choose the smarthost based on the destination, using the appropriate login-pass based on destination, not the origin, it /might/ work.

That sounds like a transport map.

...

Unless there is some other way to set alternate routing for null sender posts.

I think this might do it -

set a default relayhost, and use sender_dependent_relayhost_maps for everything else ?

And what default relayhost would it be?

Always send it to yourself perhaps?

Will only work if the destination address is mine, which has to be done via the "virtual" map file without having a default relayhost. If postfix doesn't recognize the destination address as local, it will try to send outside or enter a loop.

You can fix that - assign a transport for '<>' and then configure that transport to deliver everything to a fixed address. I don't have a recipe handy, but I'm certain something like that is possible.

Sounds interesting, but I don't know how to implement that. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2018-08-18 a las 18:19 +0200, Per Jessen escribió:

Per Jessen wrote:

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Unless there is some other way to set alternate routing for null sender posts.

I think this might do it -

set a default relayhost, and use sender_dependent_relayhost_maps for everything else ?

Actually, ignore that - you can just use sender_dependent_relayhost_maps and specify '<>' for the empty address.

How? :-o

Doesn't solve the issue of where to send it.

Right. The destination would have to be remapped to a local folder, it is impossible to send it outside, AFAIK. Or remap the sender address to be the same one as the destination address if it is one of mine. The best thing would be to remap send to the postmaster, ie, me. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlt4SfUACgkQja8UbcUWM1wufgEAm96U1ZU8KFOiUPoniuaTcwqj /P9nR76jmqYkfTQRCCIA/1XWF/tpf5Tib7964BwxiKtoJsb7RxUrHFXPizO0ST3N =vriA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On 2018-08-18 18:36, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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El 2018-08-18 a las 18:19 +0200, Per Jessen escribió:

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Per Jessen wrote:

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Unless there is some other way to set alternate routing for null sender posts.

I think this might do it -

set a default relayhost, and use sender_dependent_relayhost_maps for everything else ?

Actually, ignore that - you can just use sender_dependent_relayhost_maps and specify '<>' for the empty address.

How? :-o

In the sender-dependent maps file. Like any other address,just write '<>'.

Interesting! I wrote a comment on my sender_relayhost file about that. Still, the relayhost would refuse. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 2018-08-16 16:37, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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It seems to me they are not reliable.

It seems to me you are too quick to judge :-)

They still have not replied to me. It is 13 o'clock. I only got an automated response telling me to look at stupid buttons.

How much are you paying for their services?

They did not offer paying services. I'm trying them because I was told here (you were in the conversation) that they are/could be better than Telefónica... So far, I'm not impressed. Slow, only 5 GB, problems, no response from customer help... -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 2018-08-16 13:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Thursday, 2018-08-16 at 13:11 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:

After some point, all were rejected, till now.

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But today, I can send:

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Aha, good.

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It seems to me they are not reliable.

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It seems to me you are too quick to judge :-)

They still have not replied to me. It is 13 o'clock.

I only got an automated response telling me to look at stupid buttons.

Finally I got a response:

According to the bounce message provided, the email has been rejected due to our current security policy. This may occur if the sender domain is known as a spam domain. To check if a domain is listed, you may use a lookup tool such as the following: Spamhaus. If you are still experiencing problems, please request your system administrator to contact our postmaster at https://postmaster.gmx.com/en/contact

Ie, my ISP is/was listed by spamhouse and thus they refuse their own clients. This is not acceptable :-( -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

* Richmond [08-18-18 20:27]:

I am subscribed with gmx.com. I occasionally receive messages from  Mlmm:

Some messages to you could not be delivered. If you're seeing this message it means things are back to normal, and it's merely for your information.

Well, I don't know if that's any use to you, probably not.

I don't know how to identify a message from its message number, so I don't know what messages I have missed or why.

fwiw, I also see these msgs and have for over a year and I receive mail via google and att(yahou). I definitely do not recommend yahoo mail, or att mail. it's almost like running windoz. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

Per may be able to say what happened to those two messages that opensuse.org says they could not be delivered when sent to me@GMX by looking at the logs.

Unfortunately I don't currently have access to the mailserver that does the actual delivery. If a message bounces I can see it, but I can't necessarily tell you why. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (21.3°C) member, openSUSE Heroes. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

I have found a way to look at messages which have bounced. If you go to this web page: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/ There is a link for "compressed inbox". If you click on the one for August 2018, you get a compressed mbox file. This file when uncompressed is viewable as plain text. Search for the bounced message number  + and it appears in a header, in this case it is from you:

From opensuse+bounces-211713-archive=lists4-intern.suse.de@opensuse.org  Sun Aug 19 13:36:41 2018

I think this is correct but I did it by guess work. I am not sure why it says opensuse+bounces, as that isn't the list I was looking at. (I am using 'less' to search on linux. I guess notepad or wordpad would do on Windows). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org