[SLE] updates and other ramblings
Being fairly new at this, I am wondering... I know that I started with a Suse distribution and have been using Yast to update it via Suse's ftp site. What I am curious about is what's to stop me from, for example, updating my kde from other sites, say the kde site, where the updates are a little more current? As long as I run suseconfig afterwards, all should be well, right? And to continue along this line, if I was to use different sources other than Suse for updating any of the software, including the kernel and the X server, that comes with a Suse distribution, when is my distribution no longer a Suse distribution? What part of my Suse linux is Suse and what part is linux? Not that I am unhappy with Suse because I am not...it has performed very well. But the bottom line is, can I use any source for updates? Out there, I know there are plenty of more recent updates for certain pieces of software that I use. Are there any caveats to doing this? I am just wondering how much tinkering I can do before some part of my system rebels. rh -- The distance is nothing; it is only the first step that is difficult. -- Marie de Vichy-Chamrond. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
To add to this question or questions. What would be the proper way to update files from other sources. For example I have XFree86 3.3.6 on a CD. Can I use Yast to update that? Then the next time I run Yast on a Suse site of updates will it see I have a more current one, or just different and say I need to update? Will it mess up any database that Yast uses (if any) to keep track of file versions? John W Denning -JD- ( ( ( ) ) ) jdenning@pobox.com Salt Lake City, UT ) ) )( ( ( (801)322-2056 JD's UnderWater Photo Course - http://www.pobox.com/~jdenning/uwpc.html -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
On Tue, 08 Feb 2000, John Denning wrote:
To add to this question or questions.
What would be the proper way to update files from other sources. For example I have XFree86 3.3.6 on a CD. Can I use Yast to update that? Then the next time I run Yast on a Suse site of updates will it see I have a more current one, or just different and say I need to update? Will it mess up any database that Yast uses (if any) to keep track of file versions?
This is actually one of the few gripes I have about SuSE. The update procedure is half-implemented, and as such is unusable with the tools that they have. YaST *is* capable of installing files from basically anywhere, but not automatically updating from the /updates hierarchy on the ftp sites. Try this: Insert a CD-ROM (do not mount it) Start YaST Go to Choose/Install Packages; Install Packages
On Tue, 08 Feb 2000, Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo wrote:
Jon Pennington
writes: The only log file I see is /var/log/mail, and it is a zero-byte file. I've even gone so far as to echo my name into /var/lib/minordomo/als-misc/list, and then send a test message to als-misc. No return, no bounce, no post.
Does SuSE install sendmail with smrsh enabled? If so, make a symlink in /etc/smrsh to minordomo.pl.
At this point, you will be asked to select an installation medium.
Choose Local Directory cd to /var/adm/mount There's your disc. Unfortunately, you cannot simply mirror the /updates hierarchy from and ftp site, burn it onto a CD-ROM, and use it as-is, because there are no files to tell YaST what is on the disc, and YaST doesn't read symlinks. You'd be stuck using the short file names (package.rpm) which cause problems down the road when doing a full system release update (6.2 -> 6.3, for instance). Frankly, it's frustrated me to the point where I don't bother doing it `The SuSE Way' anymore. If you want ease-of-update, you need either FreeBSD's CVS or Debian's apt-get/dpkg system :P. On a side note, these systems work because there are central repositories for each system, with full-time staff members *dedicated* to making sure that current versions work, are available, and are indexed by the revision control system. SuSE? Are you listening? -- -=|JP|=- Jon Pennington | Atipa Linux Solutions -o) jpennington@atipa.com | Kansas City, MO /\\ 816-241-2641 x107 | http://www.atipa.com _\_V -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Hi, On Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:31 -0600, Jon Pennington wrote:
There's your disc. Unfortunately, you cannot simply mirror the /updates hierarchy from and ftp site, burn it onto a CD-ROM, and use it as-is, because there are no files to tell YaST what is on the disc, and YaST doesn't read symlinks. You'd be stuck using the short file names (package.rpm) which cause problems down the road when doing a full system release update (6.2 -> 6.3, for
What problems does this cause? AFAIK if you install a package with a short name, the RPM database will store the long name nevertheless. Ciao, Stefan -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
On Tue, 08 Feb 2000, Stefan Troeger wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:31 -0600, Jon Pennington wrote:
There's your disc. Unfortunately, you cannot simply mirror the /updates hierarchy from and ftp site, burn it onto a CD-ROM, and use it as-is, because there are no files to tell YaST what is on the disc, and YaST doesn't read symlinks. You'd be stuck using the short file names (package.rpm) which cause problems down the road when doing a full system release update (6.2 -> 6.3, for
What problems does this cause? AFAIK if you install a package with a short name, the RPM database will store the long name nevertheless.
It's a fantastic theory, and all of the documentation points to the same thing that you are saying. Unfortunately, `Incomparable Version Number' is a message that I've seen too many times to recount. -- -=|JP|=- Jon Pennington | Atipa Linux Solutions -o) jpennington@atipa.com | Kansas City, MO /\\ 816-241-2641 x107 | http://www.atipa.com _\_V -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Hi, On Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 17:32 -0600, Jon Pennington wrote:
What problems does this cause? AFAIK if you install a package with a short name, the RPM database will store the long name nevertheless.
It's a fantastic theory, and all of the documentation points to the same thing that you are saying. Unfortunately, `Incomparable Version Number' is a message that I've seen too many times to recount.
Well, I have to admit that it is in fact a theory because I've never tried it (I compile newer versions of interesting programs myself). But look at this [root]/var/tmp# rpm -q zoo package zoo is not installed [root]/var/tmp# rpm -i zoo_old.rpm [root]/var/tmp# rpm -q zoo zoo-2.10-52 [root]/var/tmp# rpm -U zoo_new.rpm [root]/var/tmp# rpm -q zoo zoo-2.10-96 Nothing about incomparable version numbers and the database does store the full name. Or does this only happen when doing a full system upgrade? Ciao, Stefan -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
On Tue, 08 Feb 2000, you wrote:
Hi,
Nothing about incomparable version numbers and the database does store the full name. Or does this only happen when doing a full system upgrade?
Mostly system updates. Another instance I've seen is when I install a base configuration, then install a short-named RPM, and then add a configuration that includes the same file. Perhaps it's a YaST bug. Dunno. -- -=|JP|=- Jon Pennington | Atipa Linux Solutions -o) jpennington@atipa.com | Kansas City, MO /\\ 816-241-2641 x107 | http://www.atipa.com _\_V -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
John Denning wrote:
What would be the proper way to update files from other sources. For example I have XFree86 3.3.6 on a CD. Can I use Yast to update that? Then the next time I run Yast on a Suse site of updates will it see I have a more current one, or just different and say I need to update? Will it mess up any database that Yast uses (if any) to keep track of file versions?
If the files are in the form of Redhat packages (RPMs), then it's easy; Yast will handle them perfectly if you go to the Choose/Install Packages Menu, then Install Packages. If they're in the form of tarballs, you have a choice: you can convert them to RPM's and use Yast, or just install them yourself. I haven't tried the conversion procedure, but it's described in several places, notably a message to me from Phillipp Thomas dated 25 Jan 2000 on the topic `Re: [SLE] Updating SuSE packages with tarballs'. Here's the gist of it:
The best way is creating your own rpms. Roughly, these are the steps:
- install the source rpm for a given package. - check if the patches in the package (if any) still apply. - edit the .spec file to match the new Version (filelist, filenames, versions etc.) . - If compiling on your system, change the spec file to use a buildroot, as this will prevent rpm to install into the running system before creating the binary rpm. - If all is as needed, do a 'rpm -ba /path/to/specfile'. This will build both the binary as well as the source RPM.
You now have a binary package you can install and deinstall via rpm and it won't be overwritten unconditionally if you update.
If you're willing to make the time investment in mastering the conversion procedure, I'd think that would be the way to go. Paul Abrahams -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
On Tue, 08 Feb 2000, reg hughson wrote:
Being fairly new at this, I am wondering...
Hmm...I've been using Linux for five years. I'm still some distance from being a non-newbie.
I know that I started with a Suse distribution and have been using Yast to update it via Suse's ftp site. What I am curious about is what's to stop me from, for example, updating my kde from other sites, say the kde site, where the updates are a little more current? As long as I run suseconfig afterwards, all should be well, right?
The only thing you need to watch out for is the location of certain files. If you look at a Red Hat filesystem next to a SuSE filesystem next to a Caldera filesystem (all of which are RPM-based distros), the disparity becomes quite clear.
And to continue along this line, if I was to use different sources other than Suse for updating any of the software, including the kernel and the X server, that comes with a Suse distribution, when is my distribution no longer a Suse distribution? What part of my Suse linux is Suse and what part is linux?
See above. Actually, to get right down to it (pseudo-quoting RMS here), Linux Proper is only the kernel itself (as in the 40mb+ of source that turns into 500Kb+ of actual executable code). Most of the other vital stuff is from the GNU project or third-party vendors and projects, and is up to the distributor (SuSE) to figure out where it goes. As stated less-than-clearly above, different people put them in different places, which *may* or *may*not* cause problems when playing mix'n'match.
Not that I am unhappy with Suse because I am not...it has performed very well. But the bottom line is, can I use any source for updates? Out there, I know there are plenty of more recent updates for certain pieces of software that I use. Are there any caveats to doing this? I am just wondering how much tinkering I can do before some part of my system rebels.
Just keep an eye on it. One of the great things about RPM is that you can use YaST to remove existing RPMs, store them in a safe place, and if a new RPM fails, you can remove *it* and restore the old one. Well-written source tarballs often have a part in the Makefile that is invoked by `make uninstall', which can do basically the same thing as `rpm -e'. Some other tools that you might want to look into are rpmfind and kpackage. `rpmfind --latest' will dig until it finds the latest release of an RPM, and then download it to /tmp for you (but not install). kpackage allows you to closely examine what an RPM has, what it will do, and even `rpm --test' a file for you to help you see glaring incompatibility issues before you start. Good stuff, lemme' tell ya' ;). -- -=|JP|=- Jon Pennington | Atipa Linux Solutions -o) jpennington@atipa.com | Kansas City, MO /\\ 816-241-2641 x107 | http://www.atipa.com _\_V -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
participants (5)
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abrahams@valinet.com
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jdenning@pobox.com
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jpennington@atipa.com
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rhughson@home.com
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stefan.troeger@wirtschaft.tu-chemnitz.de