[opensuse] file system usage?
Hello: Shortly: I have to identical partitions I formatted with the same tool. I copied everything from one partition to the other still the file system usage is different. Why? Longer version: I have two extended partitions on the same hard disks. They have identical sizes and block numbers. fdisk report is: Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sdc7 399155791 457744782 29294496 83 Linux /dev/sdc8 457744846 516333837 29294496 83 Linux I formatted both partitions as ext4 using Leap 42.2 yast2 partition tool with its default options. I installed Leap 42.2 onto partition 7. Partition 6 also has Leap 42.2 installed earlier. I booted part6 Leap 42.2, mounted partitions 7 and 8 (as /mnt1 and /mnt2) and rsynced everything from partition 7 to 8: rsync -a /mnt1/ /mnt2 Interestingly the file systems usage is not the same for the two partitions (part7 is mnt1, part8 is mnt2): df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sdc7 28G 6.1G 21G 24% /mnt1 /dev/sdc8 28G 6.7G 20G 26% /mnt2 Why is this difference? Thanks, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-06-13 15:14, Istvan Gabor wrote:
Hello:
Shortly: I have to identical partitions I formatted with the same tool. I copied everything from one partition to the other still the file system usage is different. Why?
Longer version:
I have two extended partitions on the same hard disks. They have identical sizes and block numbers. fdisk report is:
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sdc7 399155791 457744782 29294496 83 Linux /dev/sdc8 457744846 516333837 29294496 83 Linux
Are they both the same sector size? New disks sectors are 4 KiB.
I formatted both partitions as ext4 using Leap 42.2 yast2 partition tool with its default options. I installed Leap 42.2 onto partition 7. Partition 6 also has Leap 42.2 installed earlier. I booted part6 Leap 42.2, mounted partitions 7 and 8 (as /mnt1 and /mnt2) and rsynced everything from partition 7 to 8:
rsync -a /mnt1/ /mnt2
Interestingly the file systems usage is not the same for the two partitions (part7 is mnt1, part8 is mnt2):
df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sdc7 28G 6.1G 21G 24% /mnt1 /dev/sdc8 28G 6.7G 20G 26% /mnt2
Why is this difference?
Do you have sparse files, perhaps? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 15:18:56 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2017-06-13 15:14, Istvan Gabor wrote:
Hello:
Shortly: I have to identical partitions I formatted with the same tool. I copied everything from one partition to the other still the file system usage is different. Why?
Longer version:
I have two extended partitions on the same hard disks. They have identical sizes and block numbers. fdisk report is:
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sdc7 399155791 457744782 29294496 83 Linux /dev/sdc8 457744846 516333837 29294496 83 Linux
Are they both the same sector size? New disks sectors are 4 KiB.
Do you mean block size? I suppose yes, because I formatted the partitions using the same tool with the same options (as far as I know). I looked after how to check it: blockdev --getbsz /dev/sdc7 4096 blockdev --getbsz /dev/sdc8 4096 Yes, they have the same block size
I formatted both partitions as ext4 using Leap 42.2 yast2 partition tool with its default options. I installed Leap 42.2 onto partition 7. Partition 6 also has Leap 42.2 installed earlier. I booted part6 Leap 42.2, mounted partitions 7 and 8 (as /mnt1 and /mnt2) and rsynced everything from partition 7 to 8:
rsync -a /mnt1/ /mnt2
Interestingly the file systems usage is not the same for the two partitions (part7 is mnt1, part8 is mnt2):
df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sdc7 28G 6.1G 21G 24% /mnt1 /dev/sdc8 28G 6.7G 20G 26% /mnt2
Why is this difference?
Do you have sparse files, perhaps?
I don't exactly know what a spare file is. How can I find out if I have any? Thanks, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/13/2017 03:44 PM, Istvan Gabor wrote:
I don't exactly know what a spare file is. How can I find out if I have any?
E.g. rsync --help | grep sparse -S, --sparse handle sparse files efficiently or https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/du-invocation.html see option "--apparent-size". Apart from sparse files, you may have configured the reserved space for the EXT4 filesystems fidderently (see tune2fs(8)). Have a nice day, Berny -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-06-13 15:44, Istvan Gabor wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 15:18:56 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2017-06-13 15:14, Istvan Gabor wrote:
Hello:
Shortly: I have to identical partitions I formatted with the same tool. I copied everything from one partition to the other still the file system usage is different. Why?
Longer version:
I have two extended partitions on the same hard disks. They have identical sizes and block numbers. fdisk report is:
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sdc7 399155791 457744782 29294496 83 Linux /dev/sdc8 457744846 516333837 29294496 83 Linux
Are they both the same sector size? New disks sectors are 4 KiB.
Do you mean block size? I suppose yes, because I formatted the partitions using the same tool with the same options (as far as I know).
Format doesn't matter, it is a hardware issue. Example: Telcontar:~ # fdisk -l /dev/sda Disk /dev/sda: 1.8 TiB, 2000398934016 bytes, 3907029168 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes
Do you have sparse files, perhaps?
I don't exactly know what a spare file is. How can I find out if I have any?
Sparse, not spare :-) Files with holes. You can create a gigabyte file and only one megabyte block in the middle has data, the rest doesn't exist. Not that the rest (the holes) contain zeroes, but no: it contains nothing, it doesn't exist on disk. Such a file would use only one megabyte of disk space. Who uses that? Well, some download utilities: they populate the regions of the file that they manage to download, and the rest are holes, conserving disk space. They are seldom used (I have only seen them with a p2p utility), and right now, I do not remember how to find out if they exist on a partition. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 22:46:47 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2017-06-13 15:44, Istvan Gabor wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 15:18:56 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2017-06-13 15:14, Istvan Gabor wrote:
Hello:
Shortly: I have to identical partitions I formatted with the same tool. I copied everything from one partition to the other still the file system usage is different. Why?
Longer version:
I have two extended partitions on the same hard disks. They have identical sizes and block numbers. fdisk report is:
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sdc7 399155791 457744782 29294496 83 Linux /dev/sdc8 457744846 516333837 29294496 83 Linux
Are they both the same sector size? New disks sectors are 4 KiB.
Do you mean block size? I suppose yes, because I formatted the partitions using the same tool with the same options (as far as I know).
Format doesn't matter, it is a hardware issue. Example:
Telcontar:~ # fdisk -l /dev/sda Disk /dev/sda: 1.8 TiB, 2000398934016 bytes, 3907029168 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes
I do have both partitions on the same hardware. On the same physical hard drive, not two identical drives.
Do you have sparse files, perhaps?
I don't exactly know what a spare file is. How can I find out if I have any?
Sparse, not spare :-)
Sorry, typo.
Files with holes. You can create a gigabyte file and only one megabyte block in the middle has data, the rest doesn't exist. Not that the rest (the holes) contain zeroes, but no: it contains nothing, it doesn't exist on disk.
Such a file would use only one megabyte of disk space.
Who uses that? Well, some download utilities: they populate the regions of the file that they manage to download, and the rest are holes, conserving disk space.
They are seldom used (I have only seen them with a p2p utility), and right now, I do not remember how to find out if they exist on a partition.
I guess some torrent client use this, but I wasn't sure that is was the same thing. Thanks, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 13/06/17 04:46 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
They are seldom used (I have only seen them with a p2p utility), and right now, I do not remember how to find out if they exist on a partition.
Neither do I, right now, but IIR it's pretty normal for database files to have such for a number or reasons, ranging from unused field pace, blanks in the record or gaps due to the indexing. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-06-14 18:52, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 13/06/17 04:46 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
They are seldom used (I have only seen them with a p2p utility), and right now, I do not remember how to find out if they exist on a partition.
Neither do I, right now, but IIR it's pretty normal for database files to have such for a number or reasons, ranging from unused field pace, blanks in the record or gaps due to the indexing.
Maybe because records are deleted in the middle of the file. They are emptied, the sectors given back to the filesystem, which can reuse then on another place even for the same database file, now at the end :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
Istvan Gabor composed on 2017-06-13 15:14 (UTC+0200): .
I have to identical partitions I formatted with the same tool. I copied everything from one partition to the other still the file system usage is different. Why? . rsync -a /mnt1/ /mnt2 . Interestingly the file systems usage is not the same for the two partitions (part7 is mnt1, part8 is mnt2): . df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on . /dev/sdc7 28G 6.1G 21G 24% /mnt1 /dev/sdc8 28G 6.7G 20G 26% /mnt2 . Why is this difference? . man rsync tells you: -a, --archive archive mode; equals -rlptgoD (no -H,-A,-X) ... -H, --hard-links preserve hard links
My reading is unless you preserve hard links, you get at least two separate files on the target for each hard linked file on the source. So if you really want a clone, either clone, or use rsync -aHAX. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 12:23:57 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
Istvan Gabor composed on 2017-06-13 15:14 (UTC+0200): .
I have to identical partitions I formatted with the same tool. I copied everything from one partition to the other still the file system usage is different. Why? . rsync -a /mnt1/ /mnt2 . Interestingly the file systems usage is not the same for the two partitions (part7 is mnt1, part8 is mnt2): . df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on . /dev/sdc7 28G 6.1G 21G 24% /mnt1 /dev/sdc8 28G 6.7G 20G 26% /mnt2 . Why is this difference? . man rsync tells you: -a, --archive archive mode; equals -rlptgoD (no -H,-A,-X) ... -H, --hard-links preserve hard links
My reading is unless you preserve hard links, you get at least two separate files on the target for each hard linked file on the source. So if you really want a clone, either clone, or use rsync -aHAX.
I will try this if it makes any difference. Thanks, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Istvan Gabor wrote:
/dev/sdc8 28G 6.7G 20G 26% /mnt2 Why is this difference? /dev/sdc7 28G 6.1G 21G 24% /mnt1
Rather than looking at the global problem, why not look at the micro problem(s). I.e. start with: du -k /dev/mnt1 >/tmp/du_mnt1.txt du -k /dev/mnt2 >/tmp/du_mnt2.txt Find the first directory they differ on and compare "ls -l" of both dirs side-by-side. See if the diff is in the files or in the directories. Might help narrow down the problem.(?) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-06-13 18:23, Felix Miata wrote:
Istvan Gabor composed on 2017-06-13 15:14 (UTC+0200):
My reading is unless you preserve hard links, you get at least two separate files on the target for each hard linked file on the source. So if you really want a clone, either clone, or use rsync -aHAX.
I use: OPTIONS="--archive --acls --xattrs --hard-links --stats --human-readable" --archive is the same as: # -a, --archive archive mode; same as -rlptgoD (no -H) # -r, --recursive recurse into directories # -l, --links copy symlinks as symlinks # -p, --perms preserve permissions # -t, --times preserve times # -g, --group preserve group # -o, --owner preserve owner (super-user only) # -D same as --devices --specials # --devices preserve device files (super-user only) # --specials preserve special files -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 12:23:57 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
Istvan Gabor composed on 2017-06-13 15:14 (UTC+0200): .
I have to identical partitions I formatted with the same tool. I copied everything from one partition to the other still the file system usage is different. Why? . rsync -a /mnt1/ /mnt2 . Interestingly the file systems usage is not the same for the two partitions (part7 is mnt1, part8 is mnt2): . df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on . /dev/sdc7 28G 6.1G 21G 24% /mnt1 /dev/sdc8 28G 6.7G 20G 26% /mnt2 . Why is this difference? . man rsync tells you: -a, --archive archive mode; equals -rlptgoD (no -H,-A,-X) ... -H, --hard-links preserve hard links
My reading is unless you preserve hard links, you get at least two separate files on the target for each hard linked file on the source. So if you really want a clone, either clone, or use rsync -aHAX.
I compared rsync -a and rsync -aHAX. I have two pieces of identical hard drives. I formatted on both the first primary partiton (same size) to ext3 using mkfs -t ext3. These are the partitions: sfdisk -l /dev/sda Disk /dev/sda: 298.1 GiB, 320068705792 bytes, 625134191 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: dos Disk identifier: 0x1e951881 Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type /dev/sda1 * 2048 104859647 104857600 50G 83 Linux sfdisk -l /dev/sdb Disk /dev/sdb: 298.1 GiB, 320068705792 bytes, 625134191 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: dos Disk identifier: 0x1e951881 Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type /dev/sdb1 * 2048 104859647 104857600 50G 83 Linux That is the disks and the partition look identical. I mount /dev/sda1 to /mnt1 (read only) and /dev/sdb1 to /mnt2. /dev/sdb2 had a freshly formatted file system. I deleted lost+found from /mnt2 the rsynced everything from mnt1 to mnt2: # rsync -aHAX /mnt1/ /mnt2/ After it I get: # df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 50G 44G 3.5G 93% /mnt1 /dev/sdb1 50G 43G 3.7G 93% /mnt2 # df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 51475068 45240120 3613508 93% /mnt1 /dev/sdb1 51475068 45034476 3819152 93% /mnt2 There is difference in used and free space. It is ~200 MBs if I calculate correctly. ?? tune2fs gives: # tune2fs -l /dev/sda1 tune2fs 1.42.11 (09-Jul-2014) Filesystem volume name: <none> Last mounted on: /mnt1 Filesystem UUID: 1fe642de-fba4-4e71-804d-a49678ee8f4a Filesystem magic number: 0xEF53 Filesystem revision #: 1 (dynamic) Filesystem features: has_journal ext_attr resize_inode dir_index filetype sparse_super large_file Filesystem flags: signed_directory_hash Default mount options: user_xattr acl Filesystem state: clean Errors behavior: Continue Filesystem OS type: Linux Inode count: 3276800 Block count: 13107200 Reserved block count: 655360 Free blocks: 1558737 Free inodes: 3260644 First block: 0 Block size: 4096 Fragment size: 4096 Reserved GDT blocks: 1020 Blocks per group: 32768 Fragments per group: 32768 Inodes per group: 8192 Inode blocks per group: 512 Filesystem created: Sat Jun 3 12:36:03 2017 Last mount time: Tue Jun 13 17:02:22 2017 Last write time: Tue Jun 13 17:16:04 2017 Mount count: 9 Maximum mount count: -1 Last checked: Sat Jun 3 12:36:03 2017 Check interval: 0 (<none>) Lifetime writes: 25 GB Reserved blocks uid: 0 (user root) Reserved blocks gid: 0 (group root) First inode: 11 Inode size: 256 Required extra isize: 28 Desired extra isize: 28 Journal inode: 8 Default directory hash: half_md4 Directory Hash Seed: 20f34777-5a2a-4f37-8066-b3304b2a25bf Journal backup: inode blocks # tune2fs -l /dev/sdb1 tune2fs 1.42.11 (09-Jul-2014) Filesystem volume name: <none> Last mounted on: /mnt2 Filesystem UUID: 690c6d35-44ab-4d4f-b8b1-565221582a8b Filesystem magic number: 0xEF53 Filesystem revision #: 1 (dynamic) Filesystem features: has_journal ext_attr resize_inode dir_index filetype needs_recovery sparse_super large_file Filesystem flags: signed_directory_hash Default mount options: user_xattr acl Filesystem state: clean Errors behavior: Continue Filesystem OS type: Linux Inode count: 3276800 Block count: 13107200 Reserved block count: 655360 Free blocks: 12855468 Free inodes: 3276789 First block: 0 Block size: 4096 Fragment size: 4096 Reserved GDT blocks: 1020 Blocks per group: 32768 Fragments per group: 32768 Inodes per group: 8192 Inode blocks per group: 512 Filesystem created: Wed Jun 14 18:28:40 2017 Last mount time: Wed Jun 14 18:29:11 2017 Last write time: Wed Jun 14 18:29:11 2017 Mount count: 1 Maximum mount count: -1 Last checked: Wed Jun 14 18:28:40 2017 Check interval: 0 (<none>) Reserved blocks uid: 0 (user root) Reserved blocks gid: 0 (group root) First inode: 11 Inode size: 256 Required extra isize: 28 Desired extra isize: 28 Journal inode: 8 Default directory hash: half_md4 Directory Hash Seed: c2043247-ca58-45a4-affc-52c1dc46b664 Journal backup: inode blocks Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-06-14 19:12, Istvan Gabor wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 12:23:57 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
I deleted lost+found from /mnt2 the rsynced everything from mnt1 to mnt2:
# rsync -aHAX /mnt1/ /mnt2/
After it I get:
# df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 50G 44G 3.5G 93% /mnt1 /dev/sdb1 50G 43G 3.7G 93% /mnt2
# df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 51475068 45240120 3613508 93% /mnt1 /dev/sdb1 51475068 45034476 3819152 93% /mnt2
There is difference in used and free space. It is ~200 MBs if I calculate correctly. ??
tune2fs gives:
Placing that in two columns make visible the three differences: # tune2fs -l /dev/sda1 # tune2fs -l /dev/sdb1 Inode count: 3276800 Inode count: 3276800 Block count: 13107200 Block count: 13107200 Reserved block count: 655360 Reserved block count: 655360 Free blocks: 1558737 Free blocks: 12855468 ** Free inodes: 3260644 Free inodes: 3276789 ** Check interval: 0 (<none>) Check interval: 0 (<none>) Lifetime writes: 25 GB ** Reserved blocks uid: 0 (user root) Reserved blocks uid: 0 (user root) See again: Free blocks: 1558737 Free blocks: 12855468 That difference is large. Too large. :-? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 14/06/17 01:34 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
See again:
Free blocks: 1558737 Free blocks: 12855468
That difference is large. Too large.
Not only that, but also Free inodes: 3260644 Free inodes: 3276789 A small matter of 16,145 more files on one than the other. Something is wrong with your copying. Perhaps it is balking at some (large) files for some reason. * are you copying as root? * are there some hidden files? * is there stuff lurking in the lost+found * have you tried with debug/logging turned on? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on . /dev/sdc7 28G 6.1G 21G 24% /mnt1 /dev/sdc8 28G 6.7G 20G 26% /mnt2 . # rsync -aHAX /mnt1/ /mnt2/ . After it I get: . # df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 50G 44G 3.5G 93% /mnt1 /dev/sdb1 50G 43G 3.7G 93% /mnt2 . # df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 51475068 45240120 3613508 93% /mnt1 /dev/sdb1 51475068 45034476 3819152 93% /mnt2 . tune2fs gives: . # tune2fs -l /dev/sda1 Free blocks: 1558737 Free inodes: 3260644 Lifetime writes: 25 GB . # tune2fs -l /dev/sdb1 Free blocks: 12855468 Free inodes: 3276789 [Lifetime writes absent] . So, after changing rsync options, the "clone" has more freespace, rather than less, and massively more free blocks. This suggests to me sparse files are now
Istvan Gabor composed on 2017-06-14 19:12 (UTC+0200): . the primary difference, whereas before it was not preserving of hardlinks. Secondarily it looks like access time overhead is not preserved by the selected rsync options. When I want a clone, I clone (raw sector copy), immediately followed by 'tune2fs -U random -L <newlabel>' to unique the clone's UUID and volume label, and reconfiguring bootloader and fstab(s) if applicable. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 13/06/17 09:14 AM, Istvan Gabor wrote:
df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sdc7 28G 6.1G 21G 24% /mnt1 /dev/sdc8 28G 6.7G 20G 26% /mnt2
Why is this difference?
Could you run without the "-h" so we see the number of bytes, please. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Anton Aylward -
Bernhard Voelker -
Carlos E. R. -
Felix Miata -
Istvan Gabor -
L A Walsh