On 21/08/05, roach wrote:

On Sunday 21 August 2005 08:17, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

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The mails that are sent to suse-linux-e are not munged with different reply-to headers. This means that if we hit reply to a message, it gets addressed to the original sender and if I want it to go to the list, I have to edit the To line.

Aaaargh!! Very bad juju - don't bring that topic up. :-(

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Many people have mentioned a "reply to list" feature that "all good mailers should have". I'm using SeaMonkey (aka Mozilla) Mail and it does not have this feature. Should I file an enhancement bug? I asked this question over at http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=1666726 and there were no responses.

Have you looked in your general and/or folder specific settings for list settings?

Have you looked in your keyboard shortcut settings for list settings?

Have you read the help, FAQ or looked at http://addons.mozilla.org/ ?

BTW, most (if not all) lists ban CC'ing of list members as part of their "Terms of Use". The exception being, if said list member specifically asks to be CC'd.

Now when did I ask this very same question???? Not that long ago :-) I have resigned myself to hitting reply all (I use Gmail by the way) then cutting the list address and pasting it over the top of the 'To' address. It's a pain and I don't agree with everybody saying that this is normal. But..... I don't want an argument about it so I do as stated and grin and bear it. Accept it, you will not change things and will just get a headache trying ;-) -- Take care. Kevan Farmer 34 Hill Street Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

roach wrote:

On Sunday 21 August 2005 08:17, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

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mailers should have". I'm using SeaMonkey (aka Mozilla) Mail and it does not have this feature.

Emphasis on "does not have".

Have you looked in your general and/or folder specific settings for list settings?

From the headers, I see you are using KMail which already does feature rudimentary RFC 2369 support. There is no such thing as RFC 2369 support of any kind in Mozilla Seamonkey; never has been, and judging from the absolute lack of any discussion on the Mozilla website (and that is the -entire- site, not just addons.mozilla.org), never will be. There is not even an extension offering such support (though there is a one for Thunderbird which, though early in development shows some promise). Have you looked in your keyboard shortcut settings for list settings?

Again, this is Mozilla -- what keyboard shortcut settings?

Have you read the help, FAQ or looked at http://addons.mozilla.org/ ?

Have you? Even better, have you recently configured a Mozilla suite to see what is in it?

On 21/08/05, Sid Boyce wrote:

Does anyone else wonder what's this says to do or is it just to me it appears as clear as mud? Regards Sid.

Erm...it's just you this time Sid.... ;-))))) Don't worry about it, it's just another plea from a newcomer to the list about the way the list handles replies in some mailers. I uttered the same plea months and months ago and got told that it had been debated to death for years... -- Take care. Kevan Farmer 34 Hill Street Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

On 21/08/05, James Knott wrote:

But they still haven't fixed it. ;-)

I'm not holding my breath mate. You and I seem to 'know' that other mailing lists have it right - well this is the first one that I have ever known to do things in this way. -- Take care. Kevan Farmer 34 Hill Street Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

On Sun August 21 2005 6:04 pm, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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I'm not holding my breath mate.  You and I seem to 'know' that other mailing lists have it right -

your opinion _only_

no, I agree too.

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well this is the first one that I have ever known to do things in this way.

  Hummm, newby

we were all newbies once. I've fought the top-poster wars, the bottom poster wars, the BBS wars.. been there emailed that. **MY** view is, whatever works for you. I ws just happy that I could get my 75 year-old mother-in-law to email us AT ALL. I really didn't care if she couldn't spell, or if she trimmed the quotes or top-posted or bottom posted. I was just totally happy that she got on the computer and replied to me. YMMV :) -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux user # 367800 X-Request-PGP: http://home.comcast.net/~p.cartwright/wsb/key.asc

ken wrote:

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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Hummm, newby

Hmmmm, vacuous ad hominem.

I've been using list servers since 1985 or before (I don't recall exactly when, but do remember that my brand new 8086 PC was using DOS 2.1 and the software running the list was actually "listserv") and the default has *always* been for Reply to send to the listy

Absolutely. List admins who think it's harmful either forget or disregard the purpose of (most) list(s) in the first place, described at "And in the End..." on http://marc.merlins.org/netrants/reply-to-useful.html and also ignore or disregard the consequences of inadvertent private replies, also there described. The "quality" of this, the primary SuSE support list AFAIK, is one reason I'm not using SuSE exclusively, but instead using Mandriva also, whose primary support list quality I find superior. I feel like I learn more, and get better help from, the Mandriva support system. It's only too bad Mandriva requires more support, or I'd drop SuSE in favor of Mandriva's better help system. Admin attitude on this issue weighs heavily on my assessment of support quality. Public lists demand public replies in the archives. -- "Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?" Matthew 6:27 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/

On Sunday 21 August 2005 5:31 pm, Felix Miata wrote:

The "quality" of this, the primary SuSE support list AFAIK, is one reason I'm not using SuSE exclusively, but instead using Mandriva also, whose primary support list quality I find superior. I feel like I learn more, and get better help from, the Mandriva support system.

That's too bad that you find problems with the quaility of this list, but what exactly does your perception on quality have to do with the lists configuration of reply to? Are you suggesting that the reply to is somehow impacting the quality of the posts? Scott -- POPFile, the OpenSource EMail Classifier http://popfile.sourceforge.net/ Linux 2.6.11.4-21.8-default x86_64 SuSE Linux 9.3 (x86-64)

On August Sunday 21 2005 9:01 pm, Scott Leighton wrote:

On Sunday 21 August 2005 5:31 pm, Felix Miata wrote:

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The "quality" of this, the primary SuSE support list AFAIK, is one reason I'm not using SuSE exclusively, but instead using Mandriva also, whose primary support list quality I find superior. I feel like I learn more, and get better help from, the Mandriva support system.

That's too bad that you find problems with the quaility of this list, but what exactly does your perception on quality have to do with the lists configuration of reply to? Are you suggesting that the reply to is somehow impacting the quality of the posts?

hahahahaha ! That is an original thought... congratulations! Not certain how any of this advances anything tho. Suse's help system requires only that you set it up , then you can easily look up anything , even from the Admin books, if you can figure out a reasonable set of verbage to search for. As for Mandriva.. well, I've had two freebies ( from reputable Linux mags ) and neither has installed and run. So for me it's Suse.. but that is also getting into religious issues. As there was a lot of noise for a long time as to whether Red Hat or Suse was best. isn't that why we use Linux? So many choices, from boxed commercial distros, complete but not commercial products, all the way to roll your own start to finish. to each his own. But one commercial companies help list seems an odd place to make the sort of cracks that you are only using Suse still, because your favorite distro doesn't do this or that... -- j registered linux user #363029

Greg Wallace wrote:

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On Sunday, August 21, 2005 @ 4:31 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

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ken wrote:

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Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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Hummm, newby

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Hmmmm, vacuous ad hominem.

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I've been using list servers since 1985 or before (I don't recall exactly when, but do remember that my brand new 8086 PC was using DOS 2.1 and the software running the list was actually "listserv") and the default has *always* been for Reply to send to the listy

...

Absolutely. List admins who think it's harmful either forget or disregard the purpose of (most) list(s) in the first place, described at "And in the End..." on http://marc.merlins.org/netrants/reply-to-useful.html and also ignore or disregard the consequences of inadvertent private replies, also there described.

...

The "quality" of this, the primary SuSE support list AFAIK, is one reason I'm not using SuSE exclusively, but instead using Mandriva also, whose primary support list quality I find superior. I feel like I learn more, and get better help from, the Mandriva support system. It's only too bad Mandriva requires more support, or I'd drop SuSE in favor of Mandriva's better help system. Admin attitude on this issue weighs heavily on my assessment of support quality. Public lists demand public replies in the archives. -- "Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?" Matthew 6:27 NIV

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Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

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Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/

Wow! Now here's a guy who takes his mailing list nuances seriously! I would prefer it automatically reply to the list also, but the fact that it doesn't won't drive me to another distro!

Greg W

We would all have a better quality list if people would stop arguing about nothing. It is my suspicion that those who start this topic up and keep it going are in fact windows moles dedicated to disrupting the list. Could you shut up please? Chris P

On Monday 22 August 2005 02:48, chris wrote:

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We would all have a better quality list if people would stop arguing about nothing. It is my suspicion that those who start this topic up and keep it going are in fact windows moles dedicated to disrupting the list. Could you shut up please?

My friend, I who started this list have shut up quite some time ago. If you will read my original post, you will see that I asked two very pointed questions: %------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. Should I file an enhancement bug with Mozilla? 2. if I hit reply-to-all, the message gets addressed to the original sender, but it cc-s to the list. Does this cause the original sender to get two copies of my reply? %------------------------------------------------------------------------ I found out the answer to question 1 myself, later. It was reported back on 2000-07-17 as bug #45715. I've got answers to question 2 long ago back on this thread. The other mails were not requested by me from the other users, but sent of their own free will. Please do not blame me if a thread escalates into proportions I certainly did not intend it to. I am not responsible for other people voicing their opinions on some topic related to my thread. I'm sorry if I started a sensitive issue (I didn't realize it was), but I certainly did nothing to inflame it, as your mail history will show, so please do not reprimand me for being a "Windows mole" or tell me to "shut up". Calling a person who wants to learn to operate Linux and is understandably (at least to some people) finding some difficulties with it a "Windows mole" is not helping me transiting to Linux. AFAIR nobody on any other forum insulted me for my disabilities, and I *accept* that being stuck with Windows for some thing is a disability. Can you fix my modem problem? I reported it back on this very same list at 2005-08-10 20:58:18 CEST. If you can do that, that will help me shift to Linux for 75% of my needs. Right now I've set GRUB to default-boot to Windows simply because I can't access the net and my mail from Linux. If you can help me solve that problem then you are helping me with Linux. Calling me a Windows mole will not help me with Linux. Peter Nikolic wrote:

At last someone with sense there is nothing wrong with this list like i said well said chris ..

Here Peter is labouring under the assumption that I have ever suggested that anything is wrong with this list. If Peter will re-read the two pointed questions I made (quoted above) then Peter will realize that I have not complained about this list in any way. Thank you all, for your cooperation. -- Shriramana Sharma http://samvit.org (o- Penguin #395953 //\ running on ancient Indian wisdom V_/_ and modern computing efficiency

On Sunday 21 August 2005 23:55, James Knott wrote:

But they still haven't fixed it. ;-)

It's not broken

But they still haven't fixed it. ;-)

Amen, brother! :-) Actually, I've grown used to this and that it will never, ever, ever, change. -- James

On Sun August 21 2005 6:36 pm, Mike Grello wrote:

If you use KMail; just hit "l" (that is a lower case L) to reply to the list, regardless of how the list is addressed in the e-mail.

a lower case "r" also works, as in Reply.. at least in Kmail, to this list. I would say most of the NEW people use the mouse to find menu items, like reply, etc. Being an old VI lover, and a *nix command-line junkie, I personally LOVE those single-character commands.. and I only found out about "r" and "l" a month or so ago.. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux user # 367800 X-Request-PGP: http://home.comcast.net/~p.cartwright/wsb/key.asc

On Monday 22 August 2005 01:00, Scott Leighton wrote:

On Sunday 21 August 2005 3:52 pm, Paul Cartwright wrote:

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On Sun August 21 2005 6:36 pm, Mike Grello wrote:

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If you use KMail; just hit "l" (that is a lower case L) to reply to the list, regardless of how the list is addressed in the e-mail.

a lower case "r" also works, as in Reply.. at least in Kmail, to this list.

What version of Kmail? Lowercase r here simply replies to the sender. Only l replies to the list.

Scott

kmail 1.8.2

-- POPFile, the OpenSource EMail Classifier http://popfile.sourceforge.net/ Linux 2.6.11.4-21.8-default x86_64 SuSE Linux 9.3 (x86-64)

-- "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself." Sir Richard Francis Burton

On Monday 22 August 2005 11:24 am, Paul Cartwright wrote:

On Sun August 21 2005 7:00 pm, Scott Leighton wrote:

...

...

a lower case "r" also works, as in Reply.. at least in Kmail, to this list.

   What version of Kmail? Lowercase r here simply replies to the sender. Only l replies to the list.

I just hit "r" to reply to the list with your message. I am using Kmail 1.8.1 on KDE 3.4.1 SUSE 9.3

Something is screwy then. I have KMail 1.8 on KDE 3.4.0 and SuSE 9.3, hitting r replies to the sender, not the list. I wonder, do you perhaps have a procmail recipe that is adding a reply-to header? Scott -- POPFile, the OpenSource EMail Classifier http://popfile.sourceforge.net/ Linux 2.6.11.4-21.8-default x86_64 SuSE Linux 9.3 (x86-64)