Re: [opensuse] 13.1 partition scheme
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On 2014-06-22 00:06, Tony Alfrey wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote: <snip>
Summary: If I knew that I could DUMP grub, and write a lilo.config file that has worked for 10 years, and run /sbin/lilo, and that would eliminate grub from the process, I would do it.
You can, if you wish and insist.
But it will create other problems on the road for you.
And what will those problems be?
Who knows? Anytime you need to update some component, if you depart widely from the distribution defaults, like using a component that is not really supported in YaST (lilo), your system can break. And few people will be able to help. Any departure from defaults adds work on your shoulders. Instead of letting YaST do it, you have to do it yourself. It is Linux, you can do almost anything with it, but... you have to work on it.
Please recall that this has been the set-up that I've used since SuSE 9.1 was actually "new", and has only now become a problem because of a hardware failure.
Understood. But Linux changes a lot. From 9.1 till now there have been many changes, and you have not kept track of them. Trying to apply what you knew then to the current distribution creates problems. If you want to use Linux (installing it yourself, not merely using it) you need to keep current in your knowledge. Similarly with Windows: XP users, now forced to change to Windows 8, feel desperate. Linux changes even more, constantly, in usually small steps; but many. In five years, the differences are huge. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
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Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-06-22 00:06, Tony Alfrey wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote: <snip>
Summary: If I knew that I could DUMP grub, and write a lilo.config file that has worked for 10 years, and run /sbin/lilo, and that would eliminate grub from the process, I would do it. You can, if you wish and insist.
But it will create other problems on the road for you.
And what will those problems be?
Who knows?
Anytime you need to update some component, if you depart widely from the distribution defaults, like using a component that is not really supported in YaST (lilo), your system can break. And few people will be able to help.
Any departure from defaults adds work on your shoulders. Instead of letting YaST do it, you have to do it yourself. It is Linux, you can do almost anything with it, but... you have to work on it.
Please recall that this has been the set-up that I've used since SuSE 9.1 was actually "new", and has only now become a problem because of a hardware failure.
Understood.
But Linux changes a lot. From 9.1 till now there have been many changes, and you have not kept track of them. Trying to apply what you knew then to the current distribution creates problems.
I did not need to change anything. SuSE changed, the apps on my box did not change. Actually they did, but I did not need to change them; they continued to work as I needed. If I had had all of the libraries accessible, I would have simply rebuilt 9.1. That is a lesson: don't throw out anything.
If you want to use Linux (installing it yourself, not merely using it) you need to keep current in your knowledge.
Linux was a diversion for me. It was fun to play with and learn something about. My goal is to get something done. If I have to spend too much time with the OS to do that, I switch to something else. When the new BSD-based Mac OS appeared in about 2004 [?] on my PowerBook, and it looked a whole lot like Unix, that was the beginning of the end of linux for me. I remember booting up my PowerBook in the Apple store for the first time and going to / and seeing /bin, /opt/, /usr and I knew that was it.
Similarly with Windows: XP users, now forced to change to Windows 8, feel desperate. Linux changes even more, constantly, in usually small steps; but many. In five years, the differences are huge.
But this was my entire point. I have /two/ apps that need linux. I did not change them at all in 8 years. My main operating system is a Mac. /That/ changed a lot. And yet I still run Mac OS X 10.9 on a MacBook that I bought in 2006 and the installation is transparent. I don't feel desperate. -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
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On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 12:50 AM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
Similarly with Windows: XP users, now forced to change to Windows 8, feel desperate. Linux changes even more, constantly, in usually small steps; but many. In five years, the differences are huge.
Windwos 8 adds a new layer of complexity since it requires some very specific partitioning... eg a boot partition on the boot (first?) drive that did not have to be set active in 8.0 but must be in 8.1 (I've been tripped up over that one) and so on... Grub2 will play the game with Windows 8 and do so fairly seamlessly but... start tinkering about too much and one, the other or both will stop booting. Windows 8 (in terms of booting) is particularly fragile when compared to WinXP. C. -- openSUSE 13.1 x86_64, KDE 4.13 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
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On Mon 23 Jun 2014 01:07:44 PM CDT, C wrote:
On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 12:50 AM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
Similarly with Windows: XP users, now forced to change to Windows 8, feel desperate. Linux changes even more, constantly, in usually small steps; but many. In five years, the differences are huge.
Windwos 8 adds a new layer of complexity since it requires some very specific partitioning... eg a boot partition on the boot (first?) drive that did not have to be set active in 8.0 but must be in 8.1 (I've been tripped up over that one) and so on... Grub2 will play the game with Windows 8 and do so fairly seamlessly but... start tinkering about too much and one, the other or both will stop booting. Windows 8 (in terms of booting) is particularly fragile when compared to WinXP.
C. Hi And also ensure if it's windows 8, that you upgrade to 8.1 first.... windows 8 creates an extra tmp partition to do it's stuff for the upgrade.
The 'boot' you refer to is the /boot/efi partition (ESP) and the additional ms reserved one. UEFI doesn't need a boot flag set ;) You can have multiple ESP's just need to use efibootmgr to tell the system which one to use and on which drive. It all boils down to the UEFI and the manufacturers implementation of said UEFI. I have 5 systems now (all HP's) using UEFI, only one system is multiboot with windows 8.1 (sitting at the end of the drive), the latest ones I have are HP ProBook 4440s's that boot fine with SLED and openSUSE with secure and fast boot active. -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890) openSUSE 13.1 (Bottle) (x86_64) 3.10.1 Kernel 3.11.10-11-desktop up 1 day 8:01, 4 users, load average: 0.11, 0.12, 0.14 CPU Intel® B840@1.9GHz | GPU Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
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On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Malcolm <malcolmlewis@cableone.net> wrote:
The 'boot' you refer to is the /boot/efi partition (ESP) and the additional ms reserved one. UEFI doesn't need a boot flag set ;) You can have multiple ESP's just need to use efibootmgr to tell the system which one to use and on which drive.
A fair bit off topic, but... ran into this on a dual boot Win8/openSUSE 13.1 system. Win8.0 was installed, then openSUSE - with Grub2. Win8 on its own drive, and openSUSE on its own drive. Basic config is: /dev/sda = openSUSE /dev/sdb = Win8.0 Win 8 has some funny business added to /dev/sda (I never looked too deeply into what it was). Win 8.1 update arrived, it would download but fail to install 100% of the time. After many hours of fighting, swearing and web searching I discovered that that the primary partition... the EFI boot... had to be set to "Active" before the Win 8.1 update would apply. The result is that it broke Grub2 and openSUSE would no longer boot - a quick boot to rescue and using Grub2 tools to rewrite Grub2 and everything started working again. Point being that even with Win8 on a sep drive - which is what I used to do with XP - it doesn't behave in the same way and it's easy to get tripped up by an unfamiliar OS (that being Win8) and its bad behaivour in combination with any version of openSUSE... even 9.1.... if you can even get 9.1 to install on EFI based hardware. C. -- openSUSE 13.1 x86_64, KDE 4.13 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (4)
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C
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Carlos E. R.
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Malcolm
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Tony Alfrey