Hello: I have installed oS 11 onto 2 computers so far. In both case "pae" kernel was installed as default. (Though I checked the "for expert users" checkbox in one case it did not make any difference in the installation process. Definitely was not asked which kernel I wanted to install.) Why is it better than the real "default" kernel, and why isn't it called then default when it is installed default? What is the drawback if I change it to the kernel called "default"? TIA, IG VÁSÁROLNA? SEGÍTÜNK! Igényeljen hitelkártyát online és élvezze Ön is a vásárlás szabadságát! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Istvan Gabor
I have installed oS 11 onto 2 computers so far. In both case "pae" kernel was installed as default.
(Though I checked the "for expert users" checkbox in one case it did not make any difference in the installation process. Definitely was not asked which kernel I wanted to install.)
Why is it better than the real "default" kernel, and why isn't it called then default when it is installed default? What is the drawback if I change it to the kernel called "default"?
PAE *is* now the "default" kernel for PAE enabled processor. It takes advantages of processor properties not availaboe in the "real" ?default? kernel. It is to your *advantage* to use it. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-07-10 at 12:55 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
PAE *is* now the "default" kernel for PAE enabled processor. It takes advantages of processor properties not availaboe in the "real" ?default? kernel. It is to your *advantage* to use it.
Not sure of that... page switching is "heavier", more data to make the switch, thus slower. Sure, the noexecute bit is nice, but perfomance? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIdkkOtTMYHG2NR9URAjPZAJ9kJ5A+YmTM73rNcHcZr5q+DwoneACfa7V0 B2m1gq65gaBJV5Il9YKgZIE= =W5fk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Thursday 2008-07-10 at 12:55 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
PAE *is* now the "default" kernel for PAE enabled processor. It takes advantages of processor properties not availaboe in the "real" ?default? kernel. It is to your *advantage* to use it.
Not sure of that... page switching is "heavier", more data to make the switch, thus slower. Sure, the noexecute bit is nice, but perfomance?
That both processor and kernel are PAE enabled doesn't mean that PAE will be used, AFAIU. I asked this particular question on the -factory list a couple of months ago too. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-07-10 at 20:28 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Thursday 2008-07-10 at 12:55 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
PAE *is* now the "default" kernel for PAE enabled processor. It takes advantages of processor properties not availaboe in the "real" ?default? kernel. It is to your *advantage* to use it.
Not sure of that... page switching is "heavier", more data to make the switch, thus slower. Sure, the noexecute bit is nice, but perfomance?
That both processor and kernel are PAE enabled doesn't mean that PAE will be used, AFAIU. I asked this particular question on the -factory list a couple of months ago too.
There are two different things to consider in PAE kernels. One is the PAE thing for accessing more memory on 32 bit processors. Obviously, if the machine doesn't have that much memory, it is not needed and will probably not be used. The other is the NX bit, the no execute bit, that allows marking memory pages as code or not code: this is an interesting security feature, but being the 63th bit of an entry in the page table, it requires switching to a 64 bit table instead of the normal 32 bit table, and to get this 64 bit table you need PAE. And this, IMO, is unfortunate, IMO. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nx_bit The NX bit, which stands for No eXecute, is a technology used in CPUs to segregate areas of memory for use by either storage of processor instructions (or code) or for storage of data, a feature normally only found in Harvard architecture processors. However, the NX bit is being increasingly used in conventional von Neumann architecture processors, for security reasons. ... The NX bit specifically refers to bit number 63 (i.e. the most significant bit) of a 64-bit entry in the page table. If this bit is set to 0, then code can be executed from that page; if set to 1, code cannot be executed from that page, and anything residing there is assumed to be data. Also note that it is used only with Physical Address Extension (PAE) page table format, because the x86's original 32-bit page table format obviously has no bit 63. And the larger page size, will, I fear, slow down machines in the lower end of the speed and memory ranges. This has not been explained or counter-explained. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIdpKOtTMYHG2NR9URAlgFAJ49hx9n4+6LTdPHt+WklvkXwwfDKgCdHciw 14M/cRp4Gex36gdjixKXx7k= =Mq9d -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
PAE *is* now the "default" kernel for PAE enabled processor. It takes advantages of processor properties not availaboe in the "real" ?default? kernel. It is to your *advantage* to use it.
Thank you all. I guess I will stick with the default kernel. I have less than 4 GB memory installed. IG VÁSÁROLNA? SEGÍTÜNK! Igényeljen hitelkártyát online és élvezze Ön is a vásárlás szabadságát! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Istvan Gabor
PAE *is* now the "default" kernel for PAE enabled processor. It takes advantages of processor properties not availaboe in the "real" ?default? kernel. It is to your *advantage* to use it.
Thank you all. I guess I will stick with the default kernel. I have less than 4 GB memory installed.
PAE is not *only* for => 4 GM memory. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 7:42 PM, Patrick Shanahan
PAE is not *only* for => 4 GM memory.
I left the following before i realized the bug was closed: Problem is that ALL Intel chips from the Pentium Pro to now(excluding the 400Mhz FSB Pentium M chips evidently) have PAE in them. It is up to the motherboard chipset whether to make use of this tho. ie, a 440BX would not use it, but a 440GX could use it. Only the x86-64 chips have the ability to use the NX bit since it uses the 63rd bit, so why would you even make use of it on a 32bit chip? If YaST is just looking for PAE to enable something like NX/XD, then that's silly. I believe that Svetoslav was refering to older machines like my Thinkpad with the P3/500. While the chip may support PAE: flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr sse up and the corresponding pse36, PAE is dependant upon the northbridge supporting. Bottom line, is this something that will slow down a non PAE usable system? Is the code able to be removed, like the SMP alternatives are removed saving 18k on my system? Thanx -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
In the previous post, I mentioned that only the x86-64 chips used the NX/XD bit, but it would seem(at least from Wikipedia) that the Core(Yonah) chips, while not 64bit, actually had the NX/XD bit in it. Strange, unless the chip has 64bit hiding in it and was turned off. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Istvan Gabor
Hello:
I have installed oS 11 onto 2 computers so far. In both case "pae" kernel was installed as default.
(Though I checked the "for expert users" checkbox in one case it did not make any difference in the installation process. Definitely was not asked which kernel I wanted to install.)
Why is it better than the real "default" kernel, and why isn't it called then default when it is installed default? What is the drawback if I change it to the kernel called "default"?
I have filed a bug during alpha2, here is the link for the discussion about pae vs. default: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361941 -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-07-10 at 12:20 -0500, Sunny wrote:
I have filed a bug during alpha2, here is the link for the discussion about pae vs. default: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361941
Very little data in there. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIdkoAtTMYHG2NR9URAkz+AJ9UF6O+BsUWT2ALpyoAnjJelYtUkgCfegsi dYT+OwqZFWdSGweSxyOwzo0= =9kR1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Istvan Gabor wrote:
Hello:
I have installed oS 11 onto 2 computers so far. In both case "pae" kernel was installed as default.
(Though I checked the "for expert users" checkbox in one case it did not make any difference in the installation process. Definitely was not asked which kernel I wanted to install.)
Why is it better than the real "default" kernel, and why isn't it called then default when it is installed default? What is the drawback if I change it to the kernel called "default"?
I intially had the PAE kernel on my ThinkPad and found it frequently locked up. Replacing it with the standard kernel fixed that. -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 12:19 PM, Istvan Gabor
I have installed oS 11 onto 2 computers so far. In both case "pae" kernel was installed as default. Why is it better than the real "default" kernel, and why isn't it called then default when it is installed default? What is the drawback if I change it to the kernel called "default"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension : "The Linux kernel includes full PAE support starting with version 2.6.[7] The 2.6 version of the kernel fully supports PAE, enabling access of up to 64 GB of memory on 32-bit machines. A PAE-enabled Linux-kernel requires that the CPU also support PAE." All Intel procs since the PPro(except for the 400Mhz bus Pentium M's from what the article says) have had the ability to use up to 64GB RAM IF the motherboard supported it(which most don't). This isn't new and has been a standard part of the 2.6 kernel. The 2.4 kernel had an option for big-smp for more than 1 proc. As to why they are naming it that, I have no idea. AFAIK, you don't see any performance hit from having it configured this way. It just doesn't use that code if it's not there. I've seen the kernel complain about powernow(AMD) on intel chips and microcode update on AMD chips. It just easier to build a kernel that will work on all hardware than specific kernels for each type. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Istvan Gabor -
James Knott -
Larry Stotler -
Patrick Shanahan -
Per Jessen -
Sunny