RE: [SLE] mac osX The end of Linux?
From: "Timothy R. Butler" <tbutler@uninetsolutions.com> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 21:01:21 -0600 Message-ID: <001701c0510b$d44a40a0$0101a8c0@g4958> Subject: RE: [SLE] mac osX The end of Linux?
What would be cool is if you could install whatever distro you wanted and then run Aqua on top of it if you wanted... Your list would be like "GNOME,KDE,TWM,Aqua"... that's be sweet.
Yup. If only it used X. I might add, if Apple was truly acting in the open source spirit here - it would be different IMO. However, until Aqua is open source (the part Apple has really created themselves rather than just glueing other people's stuff together), I don't see why OS X should be considered open source. If Microsoft opens up the source code to "MS-DOS 7.0" (the basic kernel and other stuff that runs Windows 9x), is Windows open source? No! So, if Apple releases Darwin as open source (to my understanding, the basic kernel and other stuff that runs OS X), why do we consider OS X as open source? To me, it isn't open 'til it's open (to modify Yogi Berra's old saying).
Incidentally, last I checked, the cost for OSX was less that SuSE 7.0 Pro, SuSE 7.0 PPC, YellowDog, or LinuxPPC 2000 Boxed Set, and only $9.00 more than LinuxPPC 2000. Granted, this is for a beta not a commercial release, but I would imagine that when the commercial version comes out 2 things will be true: 1) Beta users will get a break on buying the commercial release
Granted. Microsoft offered - IIRC - the price of Windows 98 Beta ($30) off of the final product ($89 or $189). I would assume Apple would do something similar, but this really isn't all that great, IMO.
2) The price of the commercial release will be minimally more than the current price
It depends on the current BETA price (I don't know what it is), but I am assuming around $50-$60 from what you say. However, doesn't Apple charge $99 (upgrade version - is the full version $199?) for OS 9?
I also have a philosophical question: Isn't the core idea behind the open source movement based on looking at what others have done, taking what you can then making it better?
Yes - one of the ideas.
So WHY, can someone please explain to me WHY, since OSX comes from Apple, is it that people who are dedicated to the open source concept reject it out of hand with no looking or reasearch or thought, seemingly simply because it
Because for one, as I've said about OS X isn't open source, IMO. Darwin is open source - but Darwin is simply a modified Mach/FreeBSD kernel for the PPC processor. The code Apple did by itself isn't open for me to look at and/or download.
has the Apple logo on it? SHouldn't you at least install it and try it before you claim it's worthless?
Well, if somebody wants to give me a thousand dollars to buy an iMac, I'll give it a try. Otherwise, I think it can be pretty clear how to determine this. Is it entirely open source? No. And back to the thread's subject - can a modified version of FreeBSD on Mach on PPC going to kill Linux? I certainly don't think so. <p> More two cents from me... -Tim ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ===================== "Solutions that Work" ===================== <p><p>>
Wouldn't THAT be more in keeping with the idea of Open Source?
-----Original Message----- From: Timothy R. Butler [mailto:tbutler@uninetsolutions.com] Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 11:31 PM To: corvinr@sympatico.ca; SuSE Mailing List Subject: RE: [SLE] mac osX The end of Linux?
Hi Corvin, Thanks for the information! So for the most part, Apple's only major open source contribution is gluing together various components for the PowerPC platform, and not actually anything original (like the Aqua GUI). That leads me to a question - is there anything that the Darwin core can do better than SuSE for PPC or LinuxPPC? And if it's basically just acting like a normal UNIX for PPC, wouldn't the open source user do better just to stick with the fully open source stuff?
Thanks, Tim
----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ===================== "Solutions that Work" =====================
-----Original Message----- From: Corvin Russell [mailto:corvinr@sympatico.ca] Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 11:04 PM To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] mac osX The end of Linux?
On Thu, Nov 16, 2000 at 10:32:43PM -0600, Timothy R. Butler wrote:
Sorry to get in on this thread sort of late - but I thought I'd list a few reasons why it won't do away with Linux (some may have already been mentioned:
10.) Linux's strong hold isn't in the Desktop anyway - it's in the server, something the Mac is very weak in (weaker than Windows, IIRC)
McOS X is unix, and thus an excellent se4ving platform
But not standard Unix, and I've yet to hear that you can remove the
GUI layer.
Au contraire, mon ami, you can get the OS without the GUI layer right here, right now:
http://www.publicsource.apple.com//projects/darwin/
It's slightly inaccurate to say Darwin doesn't have history behind it -- between NeXT and BSD, and now OS-X and OS-X Server, there's a fair amount of history behind OS-X/Darwin.
What you can't do is get Darwin for free *with* the OS-X GUI layer. XFree86 has already been ported... who knows, perhaps KDE and Gnome will be too...
I don't think this discussion has been "religious" (I don't much care for the abuse of that word), on the contrary it has been entirely civil.
Corvin
-- Corvin Russell <corvinr@sympatico.ca>
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Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 08:00:13 -0800 From: "Spunk S. Spunk III" <spunk@mac.com> Message-ID: <B63BE78C.13DC%spunk@mac.com> Subject: Re: [SLE] mac osX The end of Linux? It remains to be seen what MacOS X will become... but it will NOT be the end of Linux. It's hard to say where X will fit into the mix. Linux and MacOS X both have strengths and weaknesses. X will bring an interesting GUI, applications, hardware (G4,iMac, etc...), FireWire, USB and other things to the table that Linux doesn't or hasn't yet. The two platforms are as different as the business models they are spun from. Open source vs. proprietary software both have their strengths and weaknesses as well. On the surface level, you have a "too many cooks in the kitchen" thing... eg: Would you rather have a meal unfinished because all the cooks can't decide how to prepare it or would you rather have a meal finished but not exactly what you were in the mood for...? The long and the short of it is: "the right tool for the right job". I use it everyday along with SuSE, Redhat, MacOS 9, Windows 2000 & ME (sorry) and never think twice about it. Spunk
From: "Timothy R. Butler" <tbutler@uninetsolutions.com> Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 16:44:49 -0600 Message-ID: <000601c051b1$281993c0$0101a8c0@g4958> Subject: RE: [SLE] mac osX The end of Linux?
It remains to be seen what MacOS X will become... but it will NOT be the end of Linux. It's hard to say where X will fit into the mix. Linux and MacOS X both have strengths and weaknesses. X will bring an interesting GUI, applications, hardware (G4,iMac, etc...), FireWire, USB and other things to the table that Linux doesn't or hasn't yet. The two platforms are as
You have some good points, although I'm not quite sure of Mac OS X's advantage over Linux. The reason I say this, is that indeed Linux (and UNIX) have been on the PPC platform (G3, PowerMac, iMac, PowerBook, iBook, etc.) for years. Linux, including SuSE out of the box, also include support for USB accessories - and I think IEEE 1394 (Firewire/iLink) also. The main thing I see Apple bringing to the table is Aqua, and so far, Aqua - while interesting - doesn't look any more polished (perhaps less) than X with E or KDE, or Windows ME or 2000. Please correct me if I'm wrong here though, but it looked to me if the tool bars were big (really big), and it really presented nothing new except some eye candy. <p> Just my $0.02... -Tim
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