On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:29:40 -0400, you wrote:

Umm...well, I have to respond now don't I. Wish denied.

There's a large difference between not replying in the right format and not replying. I encourage you to learn why top posting is a poor idea. Not that I always follow netiquette either - sometimes, especially in a long message - I find the intersperse format easier.

But seriously, I have given details in previous posts and have already outlined some of them in this thread. Look, I'm not shattering your belief system, it's just a single version of a distro. Calm down.

I don't know where you got the idea that you were shattering my beliefs, or that I'm other than calm. I believe what I see and what certain others who have proven that they know whereof they speak say. The consensus of people whose opinion I trust and of my own observations is that the problems you refer to can't be reproduced. <shrug>

Goto your Games menu and look for the Chess game. Aha! The menu isn't setup right. Now goto to the KDE Menu Editor and try to fix it. If you're even close to successful it will take some time and fanagling.

Um, assuming you mean 'GL chess' it's on the menu and works fine, although it shows the generic icon. I don't know if it's got it's own icon and isn't using it. Also, I've used the menu editor many times (I have to add PMRA-mozilla to all of the users desktops here) - that also works fine.

WiFi going away? On my planet it's very popular. Not only that, the masses like it. It would behove a distro to support it. And let's try to support cards that you can actually walk in a retail store and by. For years all I heard was "My Orinoco works fine! I got it at "Obscureshit.com" for $35!" Again, it's in the best interest of all concerned to support popular hardware. I realize there are limits and obstacles, but make it a goal.

Well, the Linksys 'G' card on my Thinkpad T22 seems to work fine with SuSE 9.2, although I did have to fool with ndiswrapper for a while after I did the kernel updates. And yes, I'm sure Wi-Fi is popular. Windows is popular too, even though it's generally acknowledged to be a virus magnet. The analogy should be clear enough, I trust. I just saw a test yesterday that broke a WEP link in something like 20 minutes and used a sniffer to monitor packet contents on the wireless link. Passwords, credit card numbers, etc. were showing up in clear on a laptop in the next office over. Granted, we were using specialist tools, but nothing that you can't get off the net and make work if you know what you're doing. I repeat, I expect intelligent computer users to start avoiding wi-fi soon. The idiots will continue to do whatever makes them happy, and we will charge them to repair their systems, just as we do now.

For the record, as I've already said, this was a fresh install. NOT an upgrade. But what if I did? If upgrading doesn't work, then my point is given even MORE weight, no? BTW this was a stock kernel on 2 different machines.

Upgrading has potential issues in ANY OS that I can think of offhand. AT&T Unix, SCO Xenix, OS/2, _ALL_ versions of windows... I'm not sure I remember correctly, but I think we even had trouble trying to update VMS on a 360/168 I used to babysit. My own rule has always been to do a clean install. It's a pain in the butt, but so is an unstable system. Fair trade.

Congrats that you have had a flawless installation. I bet, however, I could find problems in your menus if they haven't been altered and I'm confident I can illustrate problems with the menu editor. And I've already said these may be more of a problem with KDE than SuSE. Though the cosmetic problems are definitely SuSE and a QA issue.

Did you install the kde updates? I'm really curious now - I've seen nothing like what you describe on any of the 9.1 or 9.2 systems I have here. My 8 year old son is still dependent on the menus, so I have to do a fair bit of tweaking there - no problems with the menu editor. My wife uses the stock menus, mostly - and plays pretty much all of the games that ship with the distro - no problems there, either. I beat up gcc, Perl, and most of the networking stuff on the systems in my office, and aside from something funny with NFS on Netgear gigabit cards that I've hit in 9.2 and not in 9.1 (it isn't as fast as it should be, but it does work - and I have NO clue what the problem is, I'm still looking, it may even be a filesystem/LVM issue.), all of that all works fine. Oh yes, if you try to play an MP3 file in audacity and you're configured to use alsa, the system will lock - hard - as soon as you hit the play button. Hit the reset button kind of hard. That's why I keep griping about the sound support. But seriously, that's the only way I know to really mess up 9.2. Something must have caused your problems, but if you did a clean install I don't see what it could be.

I'm not angry here and in fact enjoy the discourse. I'm glad many have had a great experience with 9.2. I didn't and from what I've read many haven't. It's threads like this that I hope will make someone take notice and think about better QA, better support, better distro's in general. Please don't treat me like I'm advocating that we all give up and install XP! I consider this a friendly discussion. Though I admit, my intent is to challenge and get some attention to these issues so that version 10 is considerably better.

I'm not angry either - I enjoy a good puzzle. It just sounds strange that you'd be having so many problems while others aren't. There must be some reason. Mike- -- If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs... You may have a great career as a network administrator ahead! -- Please note - Due to the intense volume of spam, we have installed site-wide spam filters at catherders.com. If email from you bounces, try non-HTML, non-encoded, non-attachments,