On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 09:02:33 +0200 pioe--- via openSUSE Users wrote:

This does happen with all repositories, read the text.

He didn't claim it didn't. He explained how the presence of an Nvidia card pulled in through dependencies what I assume to be a general package for 'managing' all repositories

Moreover, it has never happened before. Also, I use the same type of NVIDIA card in several machines.

You said you installed a new machine with a fairly new OS. Surely that is a time you might expect to see new things?

But I cannot understand how this is related to the card, since all repositories are reset to not keep the downloads.

Andrei explained it rather clearly I thought.

Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway

On October 20, 2023 8:42:09 AM GMT+02:00, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

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On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:00 AM Per Inge Oestmoen via openSUSE Users wrote:

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Hello!

Yesterday I installed and configured a new machine. This time I chose openSUSE 15.5, which may have been a not so wise choice. - Let us

see.

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- Normally, the first thing I do before applying any update from the repositories is to configure the system so that the downloaded

packages

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are kept, in /var/cache/zypp/packages. From there, I can copy and download them for future installations with no need for a connectivity. This is my normal procedure.

However, after having configured the repositories the way I have always done, I got the message for each and everyone of them: "Repository X is managed by service 'Y' Your manual changes might be reset by the next service refresh!"

Upon looking into /var/cache/zypp/packages it turned out that there was nothing there - the system had not kept my downloads.

I have never asked a "service" to manage the repositories and reset my chosen changes!

Why does this suddenly happen?

You have an NVIDIA card that results in the openSUSE-repos-Leap-NVIDIA package as recommended and openSUSE-repos-Leap-NVIDIA pulls in the openSUSE-repos-Leap package as a hard requirement.

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What do I have to do in order to delete these infamous "services" once and for all so that they do not reset my changes - something I absolutely do not want.

Remove openSUSE-repos-Leap and openSUSE-repos-Leap-NVIDIA and lock them.

On 2023-10-20 12:29, Per Inge Oestmoen via openSUSE Users wrote:

Dave Howorth wrote:

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On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 09:02:33 +0200 pioe--- via openSUSE Users wrote:

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This does happen with all repositories, read the text.

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He didn't claim it didn't. He explained how the presence of an Nvidia card pulled in through dependencies what I assume to be a general package for 'managing' all repositories

Oh, then I understand. The NVIDIA repository somehow "dictated" the behavior of all the others.

No. NVidia installation decided the installation of openSUSE-repos-Leap-NVIDIA*.rpm, and this package demanded the installation of "openSUSE-repos-Leap*.rpm", and this last rpm did the changes you suffered. Which is news to me, too. I assume those packages are of type "service". Maybe: man 8 zypper Services Services are one level above repositories and serve to manage repositories or to do some special tasks. Libzypp currently supports Repository Index Service (RIS) and Plugin Service. Repository Index Service (RIS) is a special type of repository which contains a list of other repositories. This list can be generated dynamically by the server according to some URI parameters or user name, or can be static. Once such service is added to your system, zypper takes care of adding, modifying, or removing these repositories on your system to reflect the current list. See section Service Management and https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Standards_Repository_Index_Service for more details. ... Service Management The services, addservice, removeservice, modifyservice, and refresh-services commands serve for manipulating services. A service is specified by its URI and needs to have a unique alias defined (among both services and repositories). Standalone repositories (not belonging to any service) are treated like services, too. The ls command will list them, ms command will modify them, etc. Repository specific options, like --keep-packages are not available here, though. You can use repository handling commands to manipulate them. ... services (ls) [options] List services defined on the system. ... /etc/zypp/services.d Directory containing service definition (*.service) files. You can use the Service Management Commands to manipulate these files, or you can edit them yourself. Running *zypper refs* is recommended after modifications have been done. This directory is used by all ZYpp-based applications. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.5 (Laicolasse))

Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 1:48 PM Carlos E. R. wrote:

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I assume those packages are of type "service".

No. These packages are of type "package", they just install zypper service definition.

Okay, more info coming. Great! Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2023-10-20 12:29, Per Inge Oestmoen via openSUSE Users wrote:

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Dave Howorth wrote:

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On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 09:02:33 +0200 pioe--- via openSUSE Users wrote:

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This does happen with all repositories, read the text.

...

He didn't claim it didn't. He explained how the presence of an Nvidia card pulled in through dependencies what I assume to be a general package for 'managing' all repositories

Oh, then I understand. The NVIDIA repository somehow "dictated" the behavior of all the others.

No.

NVidia installation decided the installation of openSUSE-repos-Leap-NVIDIA*.rpm, and this package demanded the installation of "openSUSE-repos-Leap*.rpm", and this last rpm did the changes you suffered. Which is news to me, too.

This is really new, yes.

I assume those packages are of type "service". Maybe: man 8 zypper

   Services        Services are one level above repositories and serve to        manage repositories or to do some special tasks. Libzypp        currently supports Repository Index Service (RIS) and        Plugin Service.

       Repository Index Service (RIS) is a special type of        repository which contains a list of other repositories.        This list can be generated dynamically by the server        according to some URI parameters or user name, or can be        static. Once such service is added to your system, zypper        takes care of adding, modifying, or removing these        repositories on your system to reflect the current list.        See section Service Management and        https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Standards_Repository_Index_Service        for more details.

Thank you too, this is very illustrative. I have now been able to get out the shit, and now I keep all my packages. What I still do not understand, is why the "openSUSE-repos-Leap*.rpm" dictated that we should be prevented from keeping our downloads. But the discussion has definitely been worthwhile. Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 09:02:33 +0200 pioe--- via openSUSE Users wrote:

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Thank you too, this is very illustrative. I have now been able to get out the shit, and now I keep all my packages.

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What I still do not understand, is why the "openSUSE-repos-Leap*.rpm" dictated that we should be prevented from keeping our downloads.

Try Bugzilla. I once tried a related problem, and was told that was not the intended usage of the repository (sharing it across several machines, and some zypper operation deleting it all).

But now this becomes really interesting. It seems that I was justified in raising an alarm about this. Who are they, these who decide for us what is the intended use on /our/ machines? Of course it is extremely valuable to be able to copy, store, install and re-install the programs we use without any need for connectivity. It is a necessity. Backup and copying is an imperative for the conscientious computer owner and user! If someone thinks otherwise, we must tell them in no uncertain terms that it is up to us to decide what our usage of the repositories should be. This is very important. Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway

On 10/20/23 01:42, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

Remove openSUSE-repos-Leap and openSUSE-repos-Leap-NVIDIA and lock them.

Okay, For 15.5, this new stuff that wasn't alluded to earlier has to be uninstalled and locked if you want plain-old zypper ar -k ... behavior? (and you have an Nvidia card and use the proprietary driver) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.

On 2023-10-21 08:46, David C. Rankin wrote:

On 10/20/23 01:42, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

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Remove openSUSE-repos-Leap and openSUSE-repos-Leap-NVIDIA and lock them.

Okay,

  For 15.5, this new stuff that wasn't alluded to earlier has to be uninstalled and locked if you want plain-old zypper ar -k ... behavior?

(and you have an Nvidia card and use the proprietary driver)

Even if you don't have Nvidia, if "openSUSE-repos-Leap*.rpm" is installed. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.5 (Laicolasse))

On 2023-10-21 18:23, David C. Rankin wrote:

On 10/21/23 06:03, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2023-10-21 08:46, David C. Rankin wrote:

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On 10/20/23 01:42, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

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Remove openSUSE-repos-Leap and openSUSE-repos-Leap-NVIDIA and lock them.

Okay,

   For 15.5, this new stuff that wasn't alluded to earlier has to be uninstalled and locked if you want plain-old zypper ar -k ... behavior?

(and you have an Nvidia card and use the proprietary driver)

Even if you don't have Nvidia, if "openSUSE-repos-Leap*.rpm" is installed.

Can we at least make it a "recommends" so a configuration with "no recommends" wouldn't be touched?

I doubt it. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.5 (Laicolasse))

On 2023-10-22 05:23, David C. Rankin wrote:

On 10/21/23 14:52, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Can we at least make it a "recommends" so a configuration with "no recommends" wouldn't be touched?

I doubt it.

Well...

  At least we know what packages to shoot-in-the-head on a fresh install. Much like beagle "the dreaded dog" and plymouth...

  Is this new repo management noted in a "New Features" list or changelog somewhere that documents what it does -- exactly?

It may be a method to install the necessary repos. I don't have it installed, so I don't know what it contains. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.5 (Laicolasse))