[S.u.S.E. Linux] GNU
Wow, we have some bright students. Ok, here's the poser: Name two other operating systems that use the same (or variation of same) kernel as the Hurd. -- ==================================================================== Michael Lankton <A HREF="http://tasteslikechicken.ml.org"><A HREF="http://tasteslikechicken.ml.org</A">http://tasteslikechicken.ml.org</A</A>> ==================================================================== - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
Would that be the mach kernel? I can guess at one OS: mklinux? Mark --- Michael Lankton wrote:
Wow, we have some bright students. Ok, here's the poser: Name two other operating systems that use the same (or variation of same) kernel as the Hurd.
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Mark Wagnon wrote:
Would that be the mach kernel? I can guess at one OS: mklinux?
Mark
mach is correct NeXTstep/Openstep and Rhapsody use the mach kernel I am curious, is a linux that doesn't use the linux kernel still really linux? I confess to not knowing much about mklinux, I'd better go read about it some more. Hmm, how can it be linux with a mach kernel? I am gonna lose sleep over this. That is weird heh. Here's a killer jpeg I found while trying to figure this out: <A HREF="http://www.linuxppc.org/"><A HREF="http://www.linuxppc.org/</A">http://www.linuxppc.org/</A</A>> I think I'll take the ppc off and stick the penguin in it's place with the gimp. Cool image. -- ==================================================================== Michael Lankton <A HREF="http://tasteslikechicken.ml.org"><A HREF="http://tasteslikechicken.ml.org</A">http://tasteslikechicken.ml.org</A</A>> ==================================================================== - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
Hi, On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Michael Lankton wrote:
I am curious, is a linux that doesn't use the linux kernel still really linux? I confess to not knowing much about mklinux, I'd better go read about it some more.
This is what I read about it: mklinux still runs a regular linux kernel above the mach kernel. The linux kernel has been modified in such a way, that it does not access the hardware directly, it all goes through the mach kernel before. The linux kernel runs as a so called "personality" of the mach kernel, whatever that means... This sounds to me, that mklinux should be able to run on any platform, that can run a mach kernel. Quite interesting, but I may be wrong on this point. LenZ ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lenz Grimmer S.u.S.E. GmbH <A HREF="mailto:grimmer@suse.de">mailto:grimmer@suse.de</A> Gebhardtstrasse 2 <A HREF="http://www.suse.de"><A HREF="http://www.suse.de</A">http://www.suse.de</A</A>> 90762 Fuerth, Germany - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
I am curious, is a linux that doesn't use the linux kernel still really linux? I confess to not knowing much about mklinux, I'd better go read about it some more.
This is what I read about it: mklinux still runs a regular linux kernel above the mach kernel. The linux kernel has been modified in such a way, that it does not access the hardware directly, it all goes through the mach kernel before. The linux kernel runs as a so called "personality" of the mach kernel, whatever that means...
This sounds to me, that mklinux should be able to run on any platform, that can run a mach kernel. Quite interesting, but I may be wrong on this point.
You're actually pretty much right. Linux has been made to run on the HP PA-RISC boxes this way, in fact. The most popular Mach based Linux is on the PowerPC, but you can also build mklinux and run it on the Intel. The drawback is that on mklinux the additional overhead causes about a 200erformance hit in most cases. On the upside it is a pretty interesting learning experience for computer science types and in some cases could allow you to more easily run Linux on a box that Mach already supports and Linux doesn't. --Donnie -- Donnie Barnes <A HREF="http://www.redhat.com/~djb"><A HREF="http://www.redhat.com/~djb</A">http://www.redhat.com/~djb</A</A>> djb@redhat.com "Bah." Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. My Dad used to say I have deceptive quickness. I'm slower than I look. - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
Donnie, Educate me here on the advantages and disadvantages of kernels which are based on the monolithic model and those based on the microkernel model. Why go one way or the other? Regards, Kenneth Tan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ C. J. Kenneth Tan E-mail: cjtan@acm.org Telephone: 1-403-220-8038 cjtan@ieee.org 1-403-606-4257 URL: <A HREF="http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~tanc"><A HREF="http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~tanc</A">http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~tanc</A</A>> Facsimile: 1-403-284-1980 "An engineer made programmer is one who attempts to solve a problem, A programmer made engineer is one who knows how to solve a problem." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 26 Jul 1998 djb@redhat.com wrote:
I am curious, is a linux that doesn't use the linux kernel still really linux? I confess to not knowing much about mklinux, I'd better go read about it some more.
This is what I read about it: mklinux still runs a regular linux kernel above the mach kernel. The linux kernel has been modified in such a way, that it does not access the hardware directly, it all goes through the mach kernel before. The linux kernel runs as a so called "personality" of the mach kernel, whatever that means...
This sounds to me, that mklinux should be able to run on any platform, that can run a mach kernel. Quite interesting, but I may be wrong on this point.
You're actually pretty much right. Linux has been made to run on the HP PA-RISC boxes this way, in fact. The most popular Mach based Linux is on the PowerPC, but you can also build mklinux and run it on the Intel.
The drawback is that on mklinux the additional overhead causes about a 200erformance hit in most cases. On the upside it is a pretty interesting learning experience for computer science types and in some cases could allow you to more easily run Linux on a box that Mach already supports and Linux doesn't.
--Donnie
-- Donnie Barnes <A HREF="http://www.redhat.com/~djb"><A HREF="http://www.redhat.com/~djb</A">http://www.redhat.com/~djb</A</A>> djb@redhat.com "Bah." Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. My Dad used to say I have deceptive quickness. I'm slower than I look.
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<A HREF="http://www-dsg.stanford.edu/papers/cachekernel/section3_2.html"><A HREF="http://www-dsg.stanford.edu/papers/cachekernel/section3_2.html</A">http://www-dsg.stanford.edu/papers/cachekernel/section3_2.html</A</A>> hope this helps Then there are these words from Alan Cox:
"AC" == Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> writes:
AC> A monlithic OS is faster than a microkernel based system. Statements about "all micro-kernels" based on experience with Mach will guarantee incorrect results. The speed argument is not true any more. Highly optimized micro-kernels like QNX and Chorus are very fast...fast enough to compete with commercial monolithic kernels. I don't know what the interrupt latency of Linux on a 486DX2-66 is, but under QNX it is 4 microseconds. In fact, QNX's performance is so well tuned and fast that it is used heavily in industrial real-time processing applications. In addition to being slower, Mach is quite large. It is my understanding that Mach is in the hundreds of kilobytes (larger than 300KB, I think) in size. The QNX micro-kernel is under 10KB! (QNX 4.0 was less than 8KB and fit entirely in the processor cache of the 486.) The Chorus micro-kernel is somewhere around 100KB, if I remember the specs correctly, which I probably don't. Followups to alt.monolithic-kernels.die.die.die. ;) C. J. Kenneth Tan wrote:
Donnie,
Educate me here on the advantages and disadvantages of kernels which are based on the monolithic model and those based on the microkernel model. Why go one way or the other?
-- ==================================================================== Michael Lankton <A HREF="http://tasteslikechicken.ml.org"><A HREF="http://tasteslikechicken.ml.org</A">http://tasteslikechicken.ml.org</A</A>> ==================================================================== - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
Educate me here on the advantages and disadvantages of kernels which are based on the monolithic model and those based on the microkernel model. Why go one way or the other?
I'm not qualified to do that. Do some net.searches or grab some OS texts for that kind of information. What I do know is that both have advantages and disadvantages over one another. The key in *this* case is that "Linux" running "on top" of a micro-kernel is not going to be as fast as a pure Linux port to that architecture. Well, maybe it could be, but no one has proven that yet. It isn't on PPC and Intel boxes, which is the only place we have both running. --Donnie -- Donnie Barnes <A HREF="http://www.redhat.com/~djb"><A HREF="http://www.redhat.com/~djb</A">http://www.redhat.com/~djb</A</A>> djb@redhat.com "Bah." Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. My Dad used to say I have deceptive quickness. I'm slower than I look. - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
NeXTStep, MkLinux. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ C. J. Kenneth Tan E-mail: cjtan@acm.org Telephone: 1-403-220-8038 cjtan@ieee.org 1-403-606-4257 URL: <A HREF="http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~tanc"><A HREF="http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~tanc</A">http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~tanc</A</A>> Facsimile: 1-403-284-1980 "An engineer made programmer is one who attempts to solve a problem, A programmer made engineer is one who knows how to solve a problem." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 24 Jul 1998, Michael Lankton wrote:
Wow, we have some bright students. Ok, here's the poser: Name two other operating systems that use the same (or variation of same) kernel as the Hurd. -- ==================================================================== Michael Lankton <A HREF="http://tasteslikechicken.ml.org"><A HREF="http://tasteslikechicken.ml.org</A">http://tasteslikechicken.ml.org</A</A>> ==================================================================== - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
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participants (5)
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cjtan＠acm.org -
djb＠redhat.com -
grimmer＠suse.de -
mwagnon＠aznet.net -
satan3＠home.com