There is an Old Norse myth which describes a man juggling knives keeping seven in the air at a time. Over the last few weeks I have come to appreciate how painful it must be to learn such a skill. I have also come to realize that the documentation that comes with the SuSE distribution falls a bit short when it comes to real hacking. I would like another book that really gets into the weeds of both SuSE Linux and Linux in general. Perhaps SuSE would not want to make it this easy to understand the internal secrets of how they make their systems work. That would be an understandable business decision. Nonetheless, I don't see where it would hurt to suggest such a thing. The types of topics I would like to see discussed are: * how to create an RPM that will install into a SuSE configuration without breaking the current dependencies. e.g., I am trying to build the current OpenSSH from tarball, and would like to apply it as an upgrade to the latest SuSE rpm. * What is the overall architecture of the system. In this case much of the information is in the current set of books it is just not organized as a study guide. * What is the SuSE prescription for modifying system configuration via RPM scripts. * More detailed information on what the various features of hardware are. e.g., all the options in Sax and what they mean. * A better discussion of how kmod and modules.conf works. ** In particular I would like to know things such as how programs use the aliases. ** I'm interested in this because I often get messages such as modprobe can't locate sound-slot-1. Ok, that seems pretty clear. Something tried to get modprobe to load the module named or aliased sound-slot-1 and it didn't find it. What I don't know is: *** why modprobe was trying to locate sound-slot-1 *** what sound-slot-1 is or should be. Will this effect the behavior of my system? How? *** How do I fix the problem? *** How do I troubleshoot this? * How to use the gnu tools such as gcc, make, autoconfig, and etc. * How to check the signatures on tarballs that I download. * How to sign tarballs I could continue with this list for a long time. What I'm looking for is something that covers these issues in sufficient detail to give me a good component-level overview of what is going on in the system, as well as the basics of how to work with core system tools. Do others have thoughts on this? Steve
Cannot see how this will be detrimental to SuSE only beneficial. Always wondered about some of those questions you mentioned myself (RPM and moprobe especially). I like the documentation in SuSE 7.0 (wonder what is different in 7.1...). Thanks for bringing this up! Matt On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Steven T. Hatton wrote:
There is an Old Norse myth which describes a man juggling knives keeping seven in the air at a time. Over the last few weeks I have come to appreciate how painful it must be to learn such a skill. I have also come to realize that the documentation that comes with the SuSE distribution falls a bit short when it comes to real hacking. I would like another book that really gets into the weeds of both SuSE Linux and Linux in general.
Perhaps SuSE would not want to make it this easy to understand the internal secrets of how they make their systems work. That would be an understandable business decision. Nonetheless, I don't see where it would hurt to suggest such a thing. The types of topics I would like to see discussed are:
* how to create an RPM that will install into a SuSE configuration without breaking the current dependencies. e.g., I am trying to build the current OpenSSH from tarball, and would like to apply it as an upgrade to the latest SuSE rpm. * What is the overall architecture of the system. In this case much of the information is in the current set of books it is just not organized as a study guide.
* What is the SuSE prescription for modifying system configuration via RPM scripts.
* More detailed information on what the various features of hardware are. e.g., all the options in Sax and what they mean.
* A better discussion of how kmod and modules.conf works. ** In particular I would like to know things such as how programs use the aliases. ** I'm interested in this because I often get messages such as modprobe can't locate sound-slot-1. Ok, that seems pretty clear. Something tried to get modprobe to load the module named or aliased sound-slot-1 and it didn't find it. What I don't know is: *** why modprobe was trying to locate sound-slot-1 *** what sound-slot-1 is or should be. Will this effect the behavior of my system? How? *** How do I fix the problem? *** How do I troubleshoot this?
* How to use the gnu tools such as gcc, make, autoconfig, and etc.
* How to check the signatures on tarballs that I download.
* How to sign tarballs
I could continue with this list for a long time. What I'm looking for is something that covers these issues in sufficient detail to give me a good component-level overview of what is going on in the system, as well as the basics of how to work with core system tools.
Do others have thoughts on this?
Steve
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
On Wednesday 14 February 2001 12:54, Matthew wrote:
Cannot see how this will be detrimental to SuSE only beneficial. Always wondered about some of those questions you mentioned myself (RPM and moprobe especially).
I like the documentation in SuSE 7.0 (wonder what is different in 7.1...).
Thanks for bringing this up!
Matt
On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Steven T. Hatton wrote:
There is an Old Norse myth which describes a man juggling knives keeping seven in the air at a time. Over the last few weeks I have come to appreciate how painful it must be to learn such a skill. I have also come to realize that the documentation that comes with the SuSE distribution falls a bit short when it comes to real hacking. I would like another book that really gets into the weeds of both SuSE Linux and Linux in general.
Perhaps SuSE would not want to make it this easy to understand the internal secrets of how they make their systems work. That would be an understandable business decision. Nonetheless, I don't see where it would hurt to suggest such a thing. The types of topics I would like to see discussed are:
* how to create an RPM that will install into a SuSE configuration without breaking the current dependencies. e.g., I am trying to build the current OpenSSH from tarball, and would like to apply it as an upgrade to the latest SuSE rpm. * What is the overall architecture of the system. In this case much of the information is in the current set of books it is just not organized as a study guide.
* What is the SuSE prescription for modifying system configuration via RPM scripts.
* More detailed information on what the various features of hardware are. e.g., all the options in Sax and what they mean.
* A better discussion of how kmod and modules.conf works. ** In particular I would like to know things such as how programs use the aliases. ** I'm interested in this because I often get messages such as modprobe can't locate sound-slot-1. Ok, that seems pretty clear. Something tried to get modprobe to load the module named or aliased sound-slot-1 and it didn't find it. What I don't know is: *** why modprobe was trying to locate sound-slot-1 *** what sound-slot-1 is or should be. Will this effect the behavior of my system? How? *** How do I fix the problem? *** How do I troubleshoot this?
* How to use the gnu tools such as gcc, make, autoconfig, and etc.
* How to check the signatures on tarballs that I download.
* How to sign tarballs
I could continue with this list for a long time. What I'm looking for is something that covers these issues in sufficient detail to give me a good component-level overview of what is going on in the system, as well as the basics of how to work with core system tools.
Do others have thoughts on this?
Steve Matt,
What I'm suggesting is not a book to add to the distribution, but a separate book alltogether. Perhaps they could work it together with their portal by putting the for further info see... stuff on the portal. Steve
Try e-mailing this to there feedback, he is really nice and does respond to suggestions. Glad you shared it with us. I'll see if I can add anything to that list... Would have made a good book too though IMHO :-). Matt On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Steven T. Hatton wrote:
On Wednesday 14 February 2001 12:54, Matthew wrote:
Cannot see how this will be detrimental to SuSE only beneficial. Always wondered about some of those questions you mentioned myself (RPM and moprobe especially).
I like the documentation in SuSE 7.0 (wonder what is different in 7.1...).
Thanks for bringing this up!
Matt
On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Steven T. Hatton wrote:
There is an Old Norse myth which describes a man juggling knives keeping seven in the air at a time. Over the last few weeks I have come to appreciate how painful it must be to learn such a skill. I have also come to realize that the documentation that comes with the SuSE distribution falls a bit short when it comes to real hacking. I would like another book that really gets into the weeds of both SuSE Linux and Linux in general.
Perhaps SuSE would not want to make it this easy to understand the internal secrets of how they make their systems work. That would be an understandable business decision. Nonetheless, I don't see where it would hurt to suggest such a thing. The types of topics I would like to see discussed are:
* how to create an RPM that will install into a SuSE configuration without breaking the current dependencies. e.g., I am trying to build the current OpenSSH from tarball, and would like to apply it as an upgrade to the latest SuSE rpm. * What is the overall architecture of the system. In this case much of the information is in the current set of books it is just not organized as a study guide.
* What is the SuSE prescription for modifying system configuration via RPM scripts.
* More detailed information on what the various features of hardware are. e.g., all the options in Sax and what they mean.
* A better discussion of how kmod and modules.conf works. ** In particular I would like to know things such as how programs use the aliases. ** I'm interested in this because I often get messages such as modprobe can't locate sound-slot-1. Ok, that seems pretty clear. Something tried to get modprobe to load the module named or aliased sound-slot-1 and it didn't find it. What I don't know is: *** why modprobe was trying to locate sound-slot-1 *** what sound-slot-1 is or should be. Will this effect the behavior of my system? How? *** How do I fix the problem? *** How do I troubleshoot this?
* How to use the gnu tools such as gcc, make, autoconfig, and etc.
* How to check the signatures on tarballs that I download.
* How to sign tarballs
I could continue with this list for a long time. What I'm looking for is something that covers these issues in sufficient detail to give me a good component-level overview of what is going on in the system, as well as the basics of how to work with core system tools.
Do others have thoughts on this?
Steve Matt,
What I'm suggesting is not a book to add to the distribution, but a separate book alltogether. Perhaps they could work it together with their portal by putting the for further info see... stuff on the portal.
Steve
On Wednesday 14 February 2001 14:17, you wrote:
Try e-mailing this to there feedback, he is really nice and does respond to suggestions. Glad you shared it with us. I'll see if I can add anything to that list...
Would have made a good book too though IMHO :-).
I'm talkin' book here. Just not part of the distribution. I'm saying they could point back to the portal for more info, or latest updates, etc.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 El Mi� 14 Feb 2001 19:21, Steven T. Hatton escribi:
** I'm interested in this because I often get messages such as modprobe can't locate sound-slot-1. Ok, that seems pretty clear. Something tried to get modprobe to load the module named or aliased sound-slot-1 and it didn't find it. What I don't know is: *** why modprobe was trying to locate sound-slot-1 *** what sound-slot-1 is or should be. Will this effect the behavior of my system? How? *** How do I fix the problem? *** How do I troubleshoot this?
I get them all the time too; any clues about it anyway ?? Doesn't look serious, but it's quit annoying Feb 13 23:03:42 obieito modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sound-slot-1 Feb 13 23:03:42 obieito modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sound-service-1-0 Feb 13 23:03:42 obieito modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sound-slot-1 Feb 13 23:03:42 obieito modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sound-service-1-0 - -- - From the forgotten corner in Europe, Land of Breogan Powered by GNU/Linux SuSE 7.0 - Linux user #97.266 ...may the force be with you -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1e-SuSE (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6itrc43VmOmspzC4RArpMAJ9F39EDiBRFRjWBBSKsD4KzWHCWJwCffI7J Cm1oLgaDNzB6AL8IvobY1jE= =bA5m -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
O'Bieito wrote:
I get them all the time too; any clues about it anyway ?? Doesn't look serious, but it's quit annoying
Feb 13 23:03:42 obieito modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sound-slot-1 Feb 13 23:03:42 obieito modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sound-service-1-0 Feb 13 23:03:42 obieito modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sound-slot-1 Feb 13 23:03:42 obieito modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sound-service-1-0
That particular one was discussed on this list. I beleive you'll only see it with kde2. Goto "K" "preferences" "sound" "mixer" and change the number of mixers from 2 to 1. Fixed it for me anyway... Sorry to but into the thread BTW. -- Mark Hounschell markh@compro.net
On Wed, Feb 14, Matthew wrote:
Cannot see how this will be detrimental to SuSE only beneficial. Always wondered about some of those questions you mentioned myself (RPM and moprobe especially).
Actually, it is a very good suggestion - I have forwarded to our documentation team. He is right - some of the internals should be documented much better... I am working on a SuSE Package-HOWTO, that contains exactly this type of information (how to build a proper SuSE RPM). However, it currently contains a lot of SuSE internal information, that I need to separate first. Working on it... Bye, LenZ -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lenz Grimmer SuSE GmbH mailto:grimmer@suse.de Schanzaeckerstr. 10 http://www.suse.de/~grimmer/ 90443 Nuernberg, Germany Whip me. Beat me. Make me maintain AIX.
Lenz Grimmer wrote:
On Wed, Feb 14, Matthew wrote:
Cannot see how this will be detrimental to SuSE only beneficial. Always wondered about some of those questions you mentioned myself (RPM and moprobe especially).
Actually, it is a very good suggestion - I have forwarded to our documentation team. He is right - some of the internals should be documented much better...
I am working on a SuSE Package-HOWTO, that contains exactly this type of information (how to build a proper SuSE RPM). However, it currently contains a lot of SuSE internal information, that I need to separate first. Working on it...
Hi Lenz, Just wanted to thanks for working on the SuSE Package-HOWTO. It sounds like a document I've been looking for for a long time. Looking forward to reading it, Richard -- << "If the future's looking dark, we're the ones who have to shine." >> -- Neil Peart ---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***--- Richard Witt Phone: (330) 672-0096 Dept. of Physics, Kent State University Email: witt@cnr2.kent.edu ---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---
Richard Witt wrote:
Lenz Grimmer wrote:
On Wed, Feb 14, Matthew wrote:
Cannot see how this will be detrimental to SuSE only beneficial. Always wondered about some of those questions you mentioned myself (RPM and moprobe especially).
Actually, it is a very good suggestion - I have forwarded to our documentation team. He is right - some of the internals should be documented much better...
I am working on a SuSE Package-HOWTO, that contains exactly this type of information (how to build a proper SuSE RPM). However, it currently contains a lot of SuSE internal information, that I need to separate first. Working on it...
Hi Lenz,
Just wanted to say thanks for working on the SuSE Package-HOWTO.
^^^ ||| missing in first copy (sorry about that)
It sounds like a document I've been looking for for a long time.
Looking forward to reading it, Richard -- << "If the future's looking dark, we're the ones who have to shine." >> -- Neil Peart
---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***--- Richard Witt Phone: (330) 672-0096 Dept. of Physics, Kent State University Email: witt@cnr2.kent.edu ---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
-- << "If the future's looking dark, we're the ones who have to shine." >> -- Neil Peart ---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***--- Richard Witt Phone: (330) 672-0096 Dept. of Physics, Kent State University Email: witt@cnr2.kent.edu ---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---
On Thursday 15 February 2001 08:58, Lenz Grimmer wrote:
On Wed, Feb 14, Matthew wrote:
Cannot see how this will be detrimental to SuSE only beneficial. Always wondered about some of those questions you mentioned myself (RPM and moprobe especially).
Actually, it is a very good suggestion - I have forwarded to our documentation team. He is right - some of the internals should be documented much better...
I am working on a SuSE Package-HOWTO, that contains exactly this type of information (how to build a proper SuSE RPM). However, it currently contains a lot of SuSE internal information, that I need to separate first. Working on it...
Bye, LenZ
Lenz, I wanted to catch this before it scrolled past the event horizon of current topics. Thanks for passing this on. I actually have a secondary motivation for suggesting this. The way I see things, this kind of a book could server as a guide for internal SuSE development as well as for us home hackers. I know how extremely difficult it is to work on an intellectually challenging project and have to conform to guidelines that do not immediately improve your understanding. They can be a downright nuisance. The only thing worse is to develop without such guidelines. In the short term life is less confusing because you don't have to divide your attention between learning new procedures and conventions, and solving the primary problems. But in the long run you end up with a bunch of pieces that don't necessarily work well together. I'm not saying SuSE Linux is poorly constructed. On the contrary, I am extremely impressed with the number of different pieces that can be installed on my system without major problems. There are, however, a few instances such as the kdelibs update for KDE2, or the glx for XF86-3, and XF86-4, where things don't work as expected. My guess is this results from a dependence on implicit conventions which work most of the time, but do not preclude these types of "collisions". Stop signs are great for small towns and quiet neighborhoods, but they tend to fail when traffic picks up. If we can avoid these collisions in the future, it will save me a lot of grief. Such a book would also make contributing things like weekly builds of the KDE betas in SuSE friendly RPMs much easier for us SuSE fans outside of the company. I see this as a major win for all of us. If we have the same set of guidelines as SuSE developers have, we can avoid driving like Ital^h^h^Hforeingers. ;-) Of course I am also intellectually curious about how all this really works. I've been working with digital systems for more years than I care to admit, and I have a fairly good understanding how how they work in general. I don't have as clear a picture of how Linux works as I would like. But the real reason I want such a book is because I want a stable, fully functional, powerful OS to use for this: http://www.wri.com . I figure a company that names its computers Riemann, Hilbert, MacLauren and etc., Is the one that can succeed in achieving this goal. Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven T. Hatton"
* How to use the gnu tools such as gcc, make, autoconfig, and etc.
Try 'GNU Autoconf, Automake, and Libtool' by Vaughan, Elliston, Tromey and Taylor, from New Riders. ISBN 1-57870-190-2 ----- snip ----- Also, there is a book which you might like to look at called 'The SuSE Linux Server' by Sery and Kabir, from MT Books, ISBN 0-7645-4765-8 I have this book, but I haven't had time to read it yet, so I can't comment on it. Alan
On Wednesday 14 February 2001 11:38, Steven T. Hatton wrote:
There is an Old Norse myth which describes a man juggling knives keeping seven in the air at a time. Over the last few weeks I have come to appreciate how painful it must be to learn such a skill. I have also come to realize that the documentation that comes with the SuSE distribution falls a bit short when it comes to real hacking. I would like another book that really gets into the weeds of both SuSE Linux and Linux in general.
Perhaps SuSE would not want to make it this easy to understand the internal secrets of how they make their systems work. That would be an understandable business decision. Nonetheless, I don't see where it would hurt to suggest such a thing. The types of topics I would like to see discussed are:
* how to create an RPM that will install into a SuSE configuration without breaking the current dependencies. e.g., I am trying to build the current OpenSSH from tarball, and would like to apply it as an upgrade to the latest SuSE rpm.
From SAMS publishing: Maximum RPM
* What is the overall architecture of the system. In this case much of the information is in the current set of books it is just not organized as a study guide.
SuSE's manual is still best for SuSE's system
* What is the SuSE prescription for modifying system configuration via RPM scripts.
The best way is to use YaST on the RPM. That way SuSEConfig will fire after the rpm is loaded and do what ever it has to do for the situation.
* More detailed information on what the various features of hardware are. e.g., all the options in Sax and what they mean.
* A better discussion of how kmod and modules.conf works. ** In particular I would like to know things such as how programs use the aliases. ** I'm interested in this because I often get messages such as modprobe can't locate sound-slot-1. Ok, that seems pretty clear. Something tried to get modprobe to load the module named or aliased sound-slot-1 and it didn't find it. What I don't know is: *** why modprobe was trying to locate sound-slot-1 *** what sound-slot-1 is or should be. Will this effect the behavior of my system? How? *** How do I fix the problem? *** How do I troubleshoot this?
* How to use the gnu tools such as gcc, make, autoconfig, and etc.
* How to check the signatures on tarballs that I download.
* How to sign tarballs
Look at PGP or GNUpgp
I could continue with this list for a long time. What I'm looking for is something that covers these issues in sufficient detail to give me a good component-level overview of what is going on in the system, as well as the basics of how to work with core system tools.
Do others have thoughts on this?
Steve
-- Athiests believe they know there is no god. Agnostics know they believe there is no god. Thiests believe there is a god. Christians believe in God through His Son, Jesus Christ.
participants (8)
-
Alan Lenton -
Jerry Kreps -
Lenz Grimmer -
Mark Hounschell -
Matthew -
O'Bieito -
Richard Witt -
Steven T. Hatton