On 10.10.22 18:20, Robert Schweikert wrote:
On 10/10/22 10:17, Bill Walsh wrote:
On 10/10/22 02:39, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 11:47 AM Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> wrote:
On 2022-10-07 03:10, David C. Rankin wrote:
Seems our worst fears are valid:
Let me ask it plainly: Is SUSE going the way of Windows with everything in the cloud?
No.
Thank you, for clarifying that.
One of the ideas of ALP is that what is being built makes it easier to target different environments by creating different offers without creating a giant drag as it does today.
What we do today was generally referred to as the common-code-base. This enabled SUSE to efficiently create SLES, SLES For SAP, SLE HPC and other derivatives of the SLE family. However this model also creates drag.
Let me provide and example. When the azure-sdk packages need updating because new APIs become available we need to usually update on the order of 10 or 20 Python packages that are dependencies and considered part of the Python stack.
... Yes, the python installation is a real mess. The python community has really missed to provide a working way to use different versions separately and keep them apart. The 2.7.x vs 3.6 vs 3.9 vs 3.10 versions suck. You never know what should be the version in the OS. I have the impression it was not such a mess when it changed from v1 to v2. There is a certain software I'd like to use, but it requires python 3 as /usr/bin/python (no version behind it) .... and of course it is not the v3 that is installed and it expects a certain sub version and does not accept a higher sub version ... and it comes with an installer which believes it owns the system. No tar.gz or rpm avail, but there is a Snap ... which is incompatible. This mindlessness and arrogance upsets me.
As such in this case having those dependencies in a separate bucket ...> Yes, and wouldn't it be nice if we have 3 or 4 desktop environments and if one needs an updated library that others also depend upon for this one DE not to be blocked because others are slower and moving forward?
Or asked a different way, why should KDE users, for example, have to wait until GNOME or some other desktop environment gets fixed up to use a newer version of library XYZ?
These are the kinds of problems we are trying to solve with ALP.
As an example, I use XFCE as the desktop to get rid of the KDE/Gnome obesity, but still have to keep the KDE and Gnome libs installed, because some programs exist only for one of the other desktops. There is probably no way to get rid of that. I use kdirstat (k4dirstat) and kdiff3 on XFCE to find directories wasting space and to compare versions of files and to merge them. These tools use different versions of KDE and must see the same filesystem and must see the real filesystem instead of the section visible in a container. And there are other tools from Gnome which are used too. How will the layout of the filesystem and the containers be for this scenario?
But of course it also depends on the community. If something that looks exactly like Leap today is desired but SUSE has no equivalent product that generates income why is the onus on SUSE to pay people to build that artifact? Ultimately we should have a setup that allows anyone to compose a system as they see fit in a reasonably straight forward way.
We'll see how close we get to that ideal.
:-)
I have no need of cloud computing. I just want a system that works, when, where and how, I want it to work.
And you are not alone. That said "just works" also depends on how it is defined and along the way tradeoffs will have to be made to get there.
Maybe it is just a question of communication? Tell the community what kind of work scenarios you have in mind. The use cases out there are not just Cloud. Greetings, Taucher