Adam Tauno Williams skrev:
On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 09:55 +0200, Gudmund Areskoug wrote:
Peter Nikolic skrev:
It is all very well saying the stuff is out there BUT there are a surprisingly large number of people out here in the Real world that have very IFFY slow and downright internet connections , what this has to do with the argument IS the those people NEED the choices ON the DISC not on the other end of some connection that may or may not complete the transaction without barfing the systems up for you so the long and the short of it all is WE NEED CHOICE item ,the more the better Amen to that. I've been in enough situations where the distro would simply not have worked at all if I hadn't had different choices.
I can't recall having been in such a situation within the last decade.
Then your experience is fundamentally different from mine. I had things "just work" back with SuSE 6.3 and 6.4, but after that, it's been going up and down.
I've been in enough situations where even the fairly large amount of apps to choose from in a distro like openSUSE wasn't enough to make it work.
Nah, a default installation of GNOME on a desktop provides everything I need,
I think this is the key to your success: everything *you* need. Mileage does vary, so a lot of others just aren't as lucky.
and more, the great majority of the time. Everything else is just a one-click-install (Banshee, Monodevelop; but that is just for more current versions) or "zypper in ..." away.
With no decent Internet connection at hand, or none at all?
The only app I've had to download a package for manually is RabbitMQ (which included finding the openSUSE erlang repo). But really.... I don't expect an AMQ service to be included by default.
Included as default isn't the same as getting installed as default. As long as there's one alternative that really, truly works in the desktop environment I can work with (KDE in my case), and it's possible to for the user to find it, things are fine. It's when this doesn't happen that things get troublesome.
Just start with the none in the selection of wireless network drivers already on the disk not working, in a place where there is nowhere to plug a network cable (or simply no Internet available at all)...
The majority of devices I've installed on, for years, including laptops, have worked out-of-the-box. Including wireless.
I'd be interested to know what laptops those were, since I have the exactly opposite experience. Laptop with wireless = BIG trouble.
Thanks openSUSE [you really buy your brown-themed neighbor to shame in that regard; and you have less annoying swagger].
Sorry, no idea what you mean.
One might say we don't need more choice, but better alternatives. Those
Which has nothing to do with package management.
I must be missing something here. Too little sleep or too little caffeine, I guess.
better alternatives will simply not substantiate without an ecosystem of many different partly or even completely overlapping apps reaching the public.
I see no correlation between "reaching the public" and being "default", or even being installed by "default". If you need a very specific application that implies you have specific knowledge about a specific problem domain - and are capable of looking, or at least asking someone to look for you.
What I meant was that if the thing you need isn't on the disk, you will have an inordinately hard time finding it, even if you can and do ask people to look for it after you yourself failed (sheet feeder support for HP ScanJet 7450 on Linux + decent OCR, anyone?). So if there isn't a lot of overlapping apps *on the disk*, those apps will not reach the public, since "the public" has typically, in my experience given up on Linux after a few fruitless searches on the Internet and being told off on support lists for not starting off by getting hardware they checked will work with Linux in the first place (often either practically impossible or expensive enough to put make it unpalatable). BR, Gudmund -- This message and any replies to it is scanned by http://www.fra.se. Please direct any complaints about this to them. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org