On 19/11/15 00:49, Richard Brown wrote:
On 18 November 2015 at 11:18, buhorojo<buhorojo.lcb@gmail.com> wrote:
On 18/11/15 07:46, Basil Chupin wrote:
I don't use Leap42.1 except on my laptop as something to experiment with. Hi There seems a lot of doubt about using leap. As novices, we see it as taking over from the opensuse we were used to. There seems no alternative. If you want opensuse it has to be leap from now on.
It is worrying members here who know what they are talking about are being cautious about using it. Our teacher just told us a story about opensuse 11 which contained an experimental versions but no one knew about it. Is this the same with leap? Leap 42.1 is not a beta version
Leap 42.1 is a final product of a stable regular release
While Basil is very vocal, it's important to recognise that his voice does not reflect the intention of those contributors working on Leap, nor does it necessarily reflect the opinions of the majority of users of openSUSE i think you are being over sensitive to comments made by very experienced commentators in these forums and seeing things that are just not there. If
On Wednesday 18 Nov 2015 12:17:14 Richard Brown wrote: people feel they cannot sometimes be robust in comments, then you get the feeling censorship is being enacted. Everybody has an off day when they word an email in a bad way, please show me the person that hasn't. I'm not trying to censor Basil, but yes, I do want to counter his often negative perspective with my own, and where appropriate and when I feel comfortable doing so also do my best to reflect the broader
On 18 November 2015 at 14:16, ianseeks<ianseeks@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: perspectives I see in our community
I am so glad that you do want to counter what you seem to perceive my negative perspective "with [your] own, and where appropriate ....." . It's great to learn that you have negative perspectives.
i agree with you. I can't see anything in what you have said that could have caused that comment from Richard.
Well I can pick out a few examples that give me some concern
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2015-11/msg00111.html - inciting baseless FUD
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2015-11/msg00371.html - discouraging users from using a perfectly well tested and supported upgrade path
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2015-11/msg00373.html
Generally speaking, the trend of comments I'm seeing from Basil could be described to have a theme against the direction of travel of the Project. That's fine, different opinions are welcome, but I get worried when they become baseless advice that effect users. And this thread is a perfect example of such an impact.
So lets cycle back to the original point of this thread, Buhorojo quoting Basil and citing that as grounds for concern about Leap, because Basils comments imply that Leap 42.1 isn't good enough for him/is buggy/whatever
His comment upthread doubles down on this point, suggesting that it's common sense that people do not upgrade right away, because new releases are going to be full of bugs.
Richard, *please* do not make me think of you as a less than an intelligent person. If you want to cast aspersions on my mentality then please do so as I really do not expect such from other people with whom I occasionally cross paths. It has been common sense for many, many years not to immediately use a newly released version of a "distro" on a production system until the bugs have been ironed out; this may take some weeks or months. If you don't know this then you should not be in the position of Chairman of the Board of openSUSE. I did NOT state that the release was "full of bugs". If you are silly enough to come to this conclusion then I have to question your analytical skills. You must be aware, as someone who has been a programmer (are you are programmer, btw?), that *no* piece of software is without "bugs", and that a newly created piece of software potentially has more "bugs" than a person has living on his/her body and which means that it would take some time for programmers to eliminate those bugs. You have been aware of this, right? If so then why are you making the comments above about what I stated!? Your comments above appear to indicate that you are either totally unaware of the real world or are trying to fool some people into thinking that your version of reality is correct.
And yet, despite having all these opinions which he is entitled to (fair enough) and is very keen to share with everyone..I can't find a single bug report in Leap from Basil, or involving Basil, or otherwise related to Basil [1]
And so -- what is your argument? Correct, I have not made a bug report about Leap. But so what? Does one have to make a bug report without his/her comment/observation/view before it is considered? Do you, Richard, trawl through bug reports before taking seriously what people are saying about anything-openSUSE? Only asking because you have made me ask you this question.
So I think my effort to make it clear that Basil's opinion is not universal, and is possibly lacking a concrete basis, is both fair & justified. It's not personal, just as Basil is entitled to his opinion, I should be entitled to mine
Of course, Richard. You are entitled to your opinion. Everybody here, and in the Community, accepts this. You have one voice to express yourself here as anyone else as a subscriber to the openSUSE mail lists.
- R
Ah! Now this is most interesting! I clicked on this URL only to have some time fly by while Firefox went looking for this URL. Eventually it found this URL, and when it did I found that it showed that I - blchupin@iinte.net.au - had not submitted any bug reports about Leap 42.1. What a discovery! But what I also found there is this quote: ""History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives. -- Abba Eban (1915-)" But when I go to look up the information about this Abba Eban I find that Abba Eban was "...born Aubrey Solomon Meir Eban; later adopted Abba Solomon Meir Eban;[1] 2 February 1915 – 17 November 2002) was an Israeli diplomat and politician, and a scholar of the Arabic and Hebrew languages." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Eban Eban expired in 2002 -- which the URL does not mention (but why is it quoting Eban to begin with?). But more importantly, Eban is coming out with rubbish and his quote should be replaced with something sensible. Something like, "History repeats itself because nobody listens". BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.9 & kernel 4.3.0-17 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org