All 3 of these problems are because of the startkde script in SuSE's kde2.1 rpms. If I use the vanilla startkde script from kde.org all 3 of these problems dissapear. The spash screen hang problem is caused by the lines that reads as follows: # We set LD_BIND_NOW to increase the efficiency of kdeinit. # kdeinit unsets this variable before loading applications. LD_BIND_NOW=true kdeinit +kdesktop +kcminit +kicker +klipper +khotkeys kwrited Apparently this stuff gets started automatically from /opt/kde2/share/autostart and shouln't be started from startkde as of 2.1. The logout delay/hang I'm not sure of but if you use the vanilla startkde script that goes away also. The icons not staying where you put them also goes away if you use the vanilla startkde script. I can see in suse's startkde script that they are doing some stuff to build you a default desktop and position them for you. Of coarse they are doning ALOT more than the vanilla script. I was hesitant to use the vanilla script but it works. You just have to change the reference of .kde to .kde2. It also won't build you a default desktop for a new user but I can do that myself. I would prefer for SuSE to fix their script but in the mean time I'll be using this one that already has the .kde change to .kde2. Mark