On Wednesday 23 April 2003 01:51, Vince Littler wrote: <snip>
No, the point about a standard is not moot. If Mutt implements a certain something and calls it threading and Outlook implements something else and calls that threading, which is right? If I reply to a post and quote [and I make a _subjective_ judgement that the topic is changed] and I only change the subject line, then who is anybody to tell me that I have not changed the thread. And who is anybody to argue if I say that Mutt is broken because it does not recognise my new thread. Without a standard, there is nothing to argue about one way or the other, there is no such thing as a thread and this whole thread is a void.
I was referring to the mailing-list/server software. It has to be done at that level because there is no other way to keep track of of individual messages. Each message has an identifier which is at least relative to the mailing-list/server software (if not "world unique"). So replies are in references to this ID. The client has be able to recognize that fact in order to sort/organized the messages. If your client does not support this mechanism then the pointis moot. You won't see the threads. However, you **do** cause problems by simply replying to a thread and changing the subject..
Don't think I am arguing against it, not for one moment. I do see the benefits, threading would be a good thing. I think that given a standard, we can look to mail programs supporting 'reply on existing thread' and 'reply on new thread'.
That's a client issue and not having either of these functions does not reduce the necessity (or at least the benefit) of not replying with subjects that are completely unrelated to the original post.
James, to me you seem to have taken the liberty of interpreting my position to justify staking out an elevated position for yourself as one of those experienced ones who can declare what the standards are on this list by virtue of benevolence in answering questions. So, if I think your answer on Standards is good and complete, you will have merited your position and earned the right to say what the standards are. But if I don't think you have merited your position, I might think it is a rotten answer.
Sorry, but it seems that you are not aware the *fact* that at least the concept of threading is stardard is a standard. I am not "declaring" any standard it is simply a matter of fact. Take your original message as an example. It has the message ID: <200304230051.45646.suse@archipelago.eclipse.co.uk> In Anders' reply to you, there is this header: In-Reply-To: <200304230051.45646.suse@archipelago.eclipse.co.uk> If the client can process this, then it can process threads. I didn't invent this, so it is not about me or anyone else declaring "what the standards are on this list by virtue of benevolence in answering questions." We are simply requesting people adhere to de facto (de jure???) standards that have been in place for a decade or so. I remember it being an issue when newsgroups were still propogated primarily via UUCP.
As I understand this list, it is a peer support group. There is no division of the helpers and the helped. This is hard when new people come in and don't adhere to issues like threading. But if there is no standard, no one can be accused of failing to conform.
I'm not going to sugarcoat it no beg you to make it easier for people to help you. There are many people on this list who have an obnoxious attitude and I simply ignore there messages. I am also sure that there are a few people who have me in their kill file. I am not going to loose sleep over it. Besides there was no accusation of "failing to conform." It was a simple request not to reply to a thread with a different topic.
Although the link http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html is undoubtedly well meant by both the document and the link authors, I think the tone is so unbearably patronising that it is probably a little counterproductive. On the whole, the idea that people should live their lives on this list in fear of pissing off the person who might answer their question is just plain daft. I have had a lively day on the list recently, but I ain't going to with hold answers from people because of it. If I have pissed someone off and they are not going to help me, that is not a loss, because if I was not on the list, I would neither have enjoyed my lively day nor got an answer anyway. But if they do answer that is all gain!
Well, how you do expect people to answer your question if they cannot find it? The orinigal post was a problem I was having with the reiserfs and it suddenly switched to a question about fonts. People who don't know about the reiserfs might leave that thread collapsed and miss the question about fonts. Its not intentional, it is simply easier to leave all threads collapsed until you start reading them, particullary with the amount of traffic this list has. So even if you haven't pissed anyone off, your question gets lost. <snip> Regards, jimmo -- --------------------------------------- "Be more concerned with your character than with your reputation. Your character is what you really are while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden --------------------------------------- Be sure to visit the Linux Tutorial: http://www.linux-tutorial.info --------------------------------------- NOTE: All messages sent to me in response to my posts to newsgroups, mailing lists or forums are subject to reposting.