On 2010/02/22 11:32 PM, Larry Stotler wrote:
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:03 AM, C <smaug42@gmail.com> wrote:
There is a BIG difference between having differing opinions and simply moaning about "it's different and that's scary" like some people have been doing. Calling it BUGDE is not helping.. it's just being stupid and childish. Moaning and wailing about some missing feature until the rest of us are dead tired of it all while the moaner pruposely ignores the kde.org bug that is open on the missing feature, and ignoring all progress towards restoring that feature, is not having a differing opinion... it's just stirring the proverbial pot and trying to drum up as much trouble as possible.
To many I have talked with, "where to begin?" is the biggest problem. Quite honestly, they should have called it something else. KDE4 when released was a huge change from KDE3, moreso than any previous release out there. Many who were used to KDE3 were immediately turned off by the complete change of direction, myself included.
I just get the feeling that if KDE3 was KDE4 and people were moved to KDE4 (which is would be KDE3) we'd be having a very similar conversation. Basically, people would be used to what they were using and the change would be big...and a certain percentage would not like it and/or not be able to deal with it. A certain percentage would be shouting...."where are my activities" and "what happened to my widgets". All I know is KDE4 is here. Folks can either move to it and contribute to improving it. Or, they can remain on KDE3.5 at present. But, I don't think 3.5 will be progressing. And, eventually those supporting 3.5 will likely turn their attention elsewhere. In the meantime KDE4 will not stagnate. One wonders if the learning curve will be any less steep when the day comes where 3.5 is no longer viable.
Many? Some? How do you quantify that? So far, everyone I know personally that's tried KDE4 likes it. A few people have jumped from Windows to Linux because of KDE4. So it's not all bad. That's not to say it doesn't have issues, but... that's what the bug reports are for, and hey look.. features are being added back and/or fixed based on bug reports.
I know some that like it and some that don't. I don't, but I would LIKE to see it fixed. I remember many comments about the KDE devs telling users to get over it and that this was the new way. Now, they are trying to fix things and re-implement features they tried to tell us we didn't need. I have yet to understand why I don't need icons on my desktop. But that is what they told us.
New bling (transparencies, rotating desktops etc) is easy to turn off... there's a default keyboard shortcut... Shift+Alt+F12.. or you can click on the check box in in the desktop settings and it's off.
So, is that a documented feature that shows up when you install first install KDE4? I never heard about it till now. That's what I liked about KPersonalizer. Come up on first login. A nice easy way to turn off unwanted features. It was added due to older hardware, but many of us turned off the stuff even when we had the hardware to run it.
Yup... And I also point people at the KDE3 solution when that is what they want. You're more than welcome to do that. The snarky comments from others earlier in this thread are NOT doing that.
Hmmm, I was singled out by being told this(not by you):
"you should stop trolling/whining on every thread with the slightest KDE4 mention"
Don't exactly see how I was doing other than expressing my FRUSTRATION with making KDE4 work properly.
As I see ZERO compelling reasons to use Gnome, or Windowmaker... but you don't see the KDE users (usually anyway) calling down hatred and trolling in posts that are about Gnome do you? Do you see anyone calling XFCE, BUGFCE? or some other stupid name? If someone does, it's rare.
Haven't really seen a Gnome vs KDE flame for a long time. However, since KDE4 is basically a new starting point, it should have been called something else. Oh well.
And they do realise it.... check the hundreds of feature bugs that have been fixed or are targeted to be fixed. It's rather nice to see how many (missing) feature requests have been picked up by the KDE devs. Yah they could have managed the rollout of KDE4 better... but it's done, and it's being cleaned up.
That's an understatement. It was a disaster. openSUSE did a better job than Fedora to say the least. We were at least given the option for KDE3 in 11.0 & 11.1(although there was discussion about removing KDE3 in 11.1).
Anyway, my point is... productive banter is good... mindless wailing about stuff that's missing or not right and purposely ignoring the progress/accepted/planned features in the bug reports is not good, and frankly, it's tiresome.
What's tiresome is having to sit down and create a lengthly list of what's missing. I would have expected the KDE devs to know WHAT they were removing. While I applaud Dotan and others who have done so, it's way beyond what I personally am willing to deal with due to lack of time and everything else. I would have preferred spending my time answering questions about openSUSE than deal with the whole KDE3/KDE4 thing.
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