Hi, <FLAME SHIELD ON> <NO OFFENCE INTENDED> I am quite amazed at the amount of negativity on this list specifically towards SuSE as a distribution. I have been using SuSE since 7.0 and I never experience 1/10 the issues that seem to crop up on this list, why? Quite simply put, I use the tools that SuSE has provided me. I use YOU and YAST2, not because I cannot tinker with the system, but because I choose ease of use and configuration over and above manual tweaking. My fiancee has just switched over to SuSE 8.0, I showed her the basics of Linux and then showed her how to use YAST. She has never had a system crash, and she has on numerous occasions installed software that she needed... ...from the SuSE CDs and from external sources. I have switched a sales person (also a friend of mine) to SuSE 8.0, just this weekend we installed Ximian Desktop on Top of Gnome on Top of SuSE 8.0. He needed the full functionality of Ximian Evolution and the Palm Conduits... ...and so we switched him because it works exceptionally well on Ximian Desktop. I may not have the latest Gnome, or even the latest KDE... ...but what I have on my machine is stable and working. My advise to you all, if you want to use apt-get and such like, then be prepared to have more bugs then an ant hill. For years we all (maybe not all) used microsoft WinBlows Installer and Add Remove/Programs, why? Because it was a tool provided by MicroSnot to install software on the machine... ...so why then do you want to use third party tools that have not been developed for one distribution. You chose SuSE as your distribution (for whatever reasons) and SuSE have spent countless man hours developing tools for their distribution that works (Thanks SuSE), why then do you not use these tools and then complain when the stuff doesn't work. Currently my company is going through a trial period of switching users over to Linux as a Desktop, we are using SuSE because myself and two other technical staff have been using it at this company for over a year. These individuals are all ex MicroSnot users who are not very technical, yet they use their SuSE machines more effectively then they ever used the WinBlows machines. They have been taught to use the tools provided and have done so on numerous occassions. Why does SuSE take time to release certain 'new' software... ...because they test it on their distribution first and then release it. Yes there are bugs, everything that is developed by humans has bugs... ...only God is perfect. So if you are so unhappy with SuSE, then switch back to another distribution... ...don't blame SuSE for issues that you have created by not using the tools that are provided. If you want to gamble with non-SuSE tools... ...DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK!!! SuSE: THANK YOU FOR THE BEST LINUX EXPERIENCES I HAVE EVER HAD. KEEP UP THE DAMN FINE WORK!!! </NO OFFENCE INTENDED> <FLAME SHIELD OFF> Regards Q On Wed, 2002-10-30 at 08:08, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Wednesday 30 October 2002 02.49, KMcLauchlan wrote:
From my perspective, it's far better that I don't clog the system with amateurish/naive attempts.
This point I strongly disagree with. I've upgraded two of my three machines now to 8.1, and so far the only problem I've seen is in the upgrade of cyrus-imap (a real PITA, I can tell you, but I managed to get it to work in the end :), but that's not the point. It is very far from the point.
If linux is ever going to make it to the home user's desktop it needs to be usable even to the people who don't know what you're doing (and no Kevin, I'm not saying you're one of them). So even clueless bug reports should be welcomed, in fact encouraged, because it should not be possible for a user *who isn't running as root* to mess up his system. Mess up his user config, sure, but not his system.
Having said that, I can understand why places like developer's mailing lists and other are so careful about what gets posted as bugs. There needs to be some sort of middle ground, a place where even newbies can "clog the system with amateurish/naive attempts" and get a useful answer. If it then turns out to be a valid bug, it could be forwarded to the relevant places.
On lists like SLE I think a lot gets answered. But there are reasons why not everything can get an answer. It's virtually impossible, for instance, to understand why another person's system is crashing, when your own system doesn't crash even if you do exactly what the other person *says* he does. Some things just can't be fixed 'remotely'.
Anders
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