On Thursday 25 November 2021, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-11-24 02:15, Michael Hamilton wrote:
Is anyone you interested in a GUI process monitoring utility?
Yes and no. The original process model of Richie/Kernighan UNIX has become lost. Back then the model was lightweight, short lived processes. The shell was simply a dispatcher. The contrast was with the big heavy long lived processes on IBM machines. The cost of starting a process under UNIX was negligible and there was no 'transient process area' concept as in the 'DOS" version of IBM and other OSs that followed that concept.
An implication of this model meant that there were no processes worth monitoring because they didn't live long enough.
Was it ever really like that? Back in the 1980's there were often annoying long run processes. Mainly because processors/memory/disk was inadequate for the number of users on the machine (machines were always shared). Things like TeX runs, theorem proovers, simulation, and too many nethack users.
That was then, this is now. But then again, why? Many of the long lived processes are dispatchers. CUPS is a good example of the change in how print systems have changed since then, but it is really a dispatcher.
Yes, we have long lived: Thunderbird, Firefox ... perhaps you spend a lot of time editing in a .doc or .xls
I see Xorg.bin, kwin_x11, 52-nvidia, nvidia-modeset, plasmashell, as well as the browsers and IDE's and several services I don't really need. But I guess they're not that interesting. I was quite surprised to see the rapid pilfering of memory from all other processes when a cache gobbling rsync kicked in - no wonder performance under swap is bad, it's like a disease thatrapidly propagates to everything. Actually the notifications side of procno is probably my main driver. Recently I've noticed both chrome and opera have a tendency to sometimes go wild, either burning CPU, or repeatedly dumping core in the background. The first thing I'd notice was loud-fans (maybe not noticed for hours) or rapid decline in desktop performance. But now I get a popup notification. I mostly leave proco minimised in the system tray, and rely on it notifying via DBUS notifications. Similarly for jouno for the journal. Initially I get all kinds of popup notifications, most I filtered out, so now I get the interesting ones and know more about what's happening in the background.
My attitude is that I want to look at various aspects. I have an xterm that that runs 'iftop' to tell me where the network & bandwidth goes. That gives me a UID I use with other tools to drill down. I have an xterm that that runs 'vmstat' with a parameter list that tells me about memory, swap and disk activity in gross terms and rates. That too might cause me to drill down using other tools.
Yes, I too tend to stick to a lot of the old tools. But is that holding Linux back? Back in the nineties people started saying that Linux was going to one day make big inroads on the desktop. But even today, neither the desktop nor the operating system really embrace each other well. The OS is pretty unaware of what is important to the desktop and vice-versa. It's easy for a badly behaved job to destroy interactivity - by grabbing RAM - to the point where the user has no chance to intervene. That's was even true on Android, but fortunately getting less so now.
OK, on my system (15.2) what eats performance is heavy SWAP use.
Yes, the only thing that helps is buying more RAM. I seem to recall that the early Linux kernels seemed better at swap, now it is often worth taking the risk of hitting the reset switch. I do think the OOM killer has improved in recent times. I hear there are improvements coming in future kernels.
My point here is that I am looking at DYNAMICS and CHANGES in different aspects and those top level tools let me drill down using other tools. I'm looking at hoe LINUX works, not an IBM OS.
That's kind of the idea here, provide a way to at-a-glance decide things look abnormal, or get a notification to that effect, then use other tools.
You mention 'top'. Well I use 'htop'. And I can choose what I want to look at, sort-by and prioritise. But that's not where I start, I end up there as a result of other tools.
Oh, and there's logs.
So I look at 'procno' and I'm wildly UN-impressed. It's the sort of 'flashing lights' display that will look good in a movie or in a presentation for technically ignorant management.
I like pretty lights, each to their own. I've created several visual tools for managers. That way managers could monitor the contributors to response time and go wave charts and figures at the DB, OS, or integration team as appropriate. The nice thing was that they didn't need to pester me, they get complaints, consult the diagrams (http-based usually), and take initiative on their own. Of course there are managers and mismanagers, so some you leave ignorant. But if you can bring the amenable ones on board it makes for an easier time of it. Thanks for the feedback. I do understand this is not for everone. Cheers, Michael