mmm... I'm one for one in the support department... And, this mail list (paid for by SuSE) is a pretty good support medium. It is better than the comp.os.linux.misc newsgroup which I used to frequent, because most messages here are related to questions for help or answers to questions the focus on the SuSE distribution. What has been missing from this list is the necessity to wade through the flood of porno ads (some do get through, but not many), the barrage of gonad comparisons, spitting contests, and other ego displays, arguing about off topic subjects (which usually end up in philosophical debates that are finally terminated when one or both sides evokes Hitler and fascism), and rants from the politically and religiously insane just to find information that can be useful. The ration of questions answered to questions asked about SuSE has to be an order of magnitude greater on this list than any other list. You folks haven't forgotten that, have you? I switched from M$ to Linux about a year ago. I guess I am only a quasi-newbie. Being a professional programmer helps because we have long depended on Reading The Fine Manual in order to learn how to solve problems. Even so, programming, computers, networks and the Internet, and all the technology behind them, have become so massive and varied that only a genius can become competent in the areas. Most, like myself, are expert in one area, good in a couple of more, and have vague knowledge in the rest. Where I work a person was hired to program awhile back. The individual claimed prior knowledge in several dialects of the programming arts. After a few days and a few questions, however, it became painfully obvious that the individual was not seeking help with a problem or two. The person's real need was a through training, beginning with the basic difference between and OS and an application, and the fundamentals about input, output, sequence, choice and repetition. Forget operating an IDE to develop a GUI app, this individual couldn't navigate Windows competently. The difference between giving help to answer a question or two, and support that amounts to lifting a neophyte from total ignorance to reasonable competence is the kind of difference some are asking on this list. This list won't supply that kind of assistance, and it is unrealistic to expect it (and the SuSE staff) to do so. If you are willing to pay big $$$ SuSE can offer that kind of service, though. That is how SuSE makes money. It would surprise me if the CD sales did anything more than break even. Personally, any SuSE employees that moniter this list are a bonus. The real benefit of this list are the experienced users who donate their time to answer the questions of the less experienced, who, after they acquire some experience, give back to the list by helping others. That is what the community spirit of this list has been in the past. We should get back to that spirit and stop the worthless whining and complaining. Geesh, I've spent more money taking my wife to dinner than I spend on a SuSE subsciption, and I usually tip the waiter 20% just for doing what he is paid to do by the owner of the restaurant. You folks want to start tipping Lenz for the help he provides? Maybe that will bring Helmut back, because it sure beats being slapped in the face when he was only trying to help. Ralph Clark wrote:
Michael Perry wrote:
Quoting Evil Linux on Sun, May 30, 1999 at 01:27:28PM -0700:
I seemed to be one of the lucky ones. I sent three emails and three weeks later I received one reply back. I have also tried to call the tech support phone number, but with little success. Personally I do not feel I am getting my money's worth by paying for the package.
Not to sound confrontational, but how much did you spend for the package and what do you consider to be the requisite technical support you should get? If you spend $40 on 5 cd's of software, what level of technical support do you think you should get? I am just curious about what return on investment you think would be adequate. Let me say, I rarely send technical support email. I have used SuSE since 5.0 with some brief forays to the land of red hats. My primary location for technical support and expertise with the operating system is this mailing list and the mailing list archives. I respect SuSE and I like what they do; I just do not depend on them to provide tech support. If I did, perhaps I would feel that what they charge should carry some quick response service level support. Then again, perhaps not and I would do what I have done. Primarily experiment, make mistakes, learn, make more mistakes, and learn more. Also drop a few emails to some notable luminaries on this list.
I'm not flaming or arguing. Just commenting...
I have a lot of sympathy for this view and I hate it when people complain about not getting value for money when they only spent 40 bucks.
OTOH, people like myself who are prepared to RTFM and search the list archives and the web for answers and even experiment to a degree sometimes still end up with no other recourse but to report the fault to the distributor and ask for their help. Given all the work you've put in by that point, it is extremely disturbing to find either that you are being completely ignored or that you are being given the brush off because they won't support the system once you've compiled your own kernel. For $40 we can expect only a limited amount of support, but some of us aren't even getting that. When you've taken the time to investigate the problem thoroughly and have documented it all for them with example input and output etc. it's only fair to expect a slightly more co-operative response. After all in doing this we are helping them to refine their product.
SuSE must be prepared to stand behind their product if they expect to retain any credibility. If that means they have to charge a little more then so be it. But the current policy is certain to lose them customers. I for one will be looking very carefully at the support angle from now on when choosing distributions.
-- rclark@virgosolutions.demon.co.uk Ralph Clark, Virgo Solutions Ltd (UK)
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