RE: [SLE] This is an RfC for SuSE, Inc. and SuSE GmBH.

21 Nov 2000

      From: "Timothy R. Butler" <tbutler@uninetsolutions.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:22:04 -0600
Message-ID: <002801c05359$752c34c0$0101a8c0@g4958>
Subject: RE: [SLE] This is an RfC for SuSE, Inc. and SuSE GmBH.

Hmm... Is that maybe an unofficial release?

  -Tim

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy R. Butler                              Universal Networks
Information Tech. Consultant    Christian Web Services Since 1996
ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm       An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller
tbutler@uninetsolutions.com        http://www.uninetsolutions.com
===================== "Solutions that Work" =====================

<p><p>> -----Original Message-----
...
From: scsijon [mailto:scsijon@net2000.com.au]
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 4:43 AM
To: tbutler@uninetsolutions.com
Subject: Re: [SLE] This is an RfC for SuSE, Inc. and SuSE GmBH.
Funny, I thought it was already out.
I picked up the 6CD set last weekend at my local Computer Swapmeet here in
Melbourne Australia for $A36. Single page in caddy says it's sold as is,
Manuals on Disc 1 (where they are), no direct support. Eratta and updates
can be got from the SuSE website.
??????????
scsijon
-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy R. Butler <tbutler@uninetsolutions.com>
To: SuSE Mailing List <suse-linux-e@suse.com>
Date: Monday, November 20, 2000 1:56 PM
Subject: [SLE] This is an RfC for SuSE, Inc. and SuSE GmBH.
...
To SuSE, Inc. and SuSE GmBH,
 I find it funny that over one month after I petitioned for a response to
my Guru
Edition proposal, I have heard nothing. Other users, indeed, have agreed
with me
that this is a product that would be useful. Pure common sense that more
and more
people have broadband internet and a cd burner alone hint at the fact that
there
is little reason for a knowledgeable user to buy a $70 distro.
 That is why I, along with other SuSE Linux users, have said that a full
version
without all the manuals and support for a dirt cheap price would be great.
This is
a win/win situation for both users and SuSE. If people like me go download
SuSE
off FTP, how much does SuSE make? Nothing. If I go spend a $20 or $30 (the
price
Linux distros should be, IMO) and buy a SuSE, how much does SuSE make? I
don't
know - but it's more than if I download SuSE.
 The moral of the story is, you can't endlessly bundle services with an
open
source product to inflate prices. Eventually, knowledgeable users will just
burn
their own CD's. However, if SuSE gives an affordable way to support SuSE's
continued good work, but doesn't force the user to buy more than he wants -
we
both win.
This is a request for comments for either SuSE division, I would greatly
appreciate a response.
Once again this is what I'm proposing:
Guru Edition:
   - 6 CD's/1 DVD
   - Small 10 or 20 page booklet with errata, getting started, etc. in
Jewel Case
   - Sold at retail stores (could be in section where they sell software
that is
only in a Jewel Case
   - No box, no support, just 6 CD's and 1 DVD in a Jewel case or if
necessary -
a paper CD case.
   - Sold somewhere between $20-$30 (There is no reason for it to be more,
it has
no support, no manual, and most of the software is developed around the
world for
free)
   - Could replace the current Upgrade Edition
-Tim
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy R. Butler                              Universal Networks
Information Tech. Consultant    Christian Web Services Since 1996
ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm       An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller
tbutler@uninetsolutions.com        http://www.uninetsolutions.com
===================== "Solutions that Work" =====================
...
-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy R. Butler [mailto:tbutler@uninetsolutions.com]
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 7:37 PM
To: Jonathan Wilson; SuSE Mailing List
Subject: RE: [SLE] SuSE Needs a "Guru Edition"! (was RE: [SLE] Upgrade
worth it?)
Glad to hear someone else feels the same way! It seems especially
critical for
SuSE to realize the need for this since broadband is becoming
increasingly
popular, and those of us who don't need $50 added to the price tag for
books and
support will be more likely to download in the future _unless_ there is
a cheaper
version with all of the power.
Just my $0.02...
-Tim
PS: I believe I might signup for broadband soon, so I'll be all set for
downloading it. However, as I said, if there was a cheap version with
6-CD's
(what, less than $0.10 a piece) and a DVD without support or a manual -
I'd pay
for it. Anyone at SuSE or other users who feel the same?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy R. Butler                              Universal Networks
Information Tech. Consultant    Christian Web Services Since 1996
ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm       An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller
tbutler@uninetsolutions.com        http://www.uninetsolutions.com
===================== "Solutions that Work" =====================
...
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Wilson [mailto:wilson@claborn.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 11:15 AM
To: tbutler@uninetsolutions.com
Subject: Re: [SLE] SuSE Needs a "Guru Edition"! (was RE: [SLE] Upgrade
worth it?)
Same here! I'd buy every single version if it would fall to $40 or
less. And I use the books less and less all the time, in fact I hardly
ever look at them now. They should just make the book available online
on their web site.
JW
...
Hi Tosi,
...
You don't think half a thought ? What of FOUR books ? For the price
of SuSE
Linux 7.0 Pro
I get *ONE* book "for idiots" on Linux. What of the work of making a
But, I don't need four books. That's fine, but I don't feel like
shelling out
$30 extra bucks every 4 months when all I want is the CD's. But, I
have no choice,
the upgrade is just $10 less than the full thing at retail, and that
savings would
be taken by the shipping and handling.
 Personally, for power users, I think SuSE should take RedHat's old
"Powertools"
idea, and offer a version that is just 6-cds and 1 DVD, and perhaps
a few page
booklet that fits in the product's jewel case. Then stamp something
between
$20-$35 on the case and call it "SuSE 7.1 Guru Edition" or something
...
The fact is, I wouldn't mind buying ever single version of SuSE, but
I won't do
it for $60-$70 a wack. However, if SuSE had that "Guru Edition",
SuSE probably
would probably have a higher profit margin on that version than the
Pro edition
(since it lacks manuals and support), and they would also sell more to
"SOHO"
users like myself. Infact, I probably won't buy another copy of SuSE
as it stands
for at least a year and a half [can't justify $70 for small
upgrades], but I'd
gladly pay $25, say, for every version of the bookless version.
 Another benefit for SuSE on such a version would be the fact that
Broadband is
increasingly popular. If I had broadband I would be inclined to just
download
SuSE, but I still might ***buy*** it if it's going for $25.
Just my $0.02...
-Tim
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy R. Butler                              Universal Networks
Information Tech. Consultant    Christian Web Services Since 1996
ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm       An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller
tbutler@uninetsolutions.com        http://www.uninetsolutions.com
===================== "Solutions that Work" =====================
...
USER-FRIENDLY install-
process ? That takes a large amount of work, and does cost a lot
of money if
you're paying
someone to do it for you. And what about a supportline ? Slackware
has to my
knowledge NONE,
and neither do *BSD ( not counting usenet and post-lists ) I think
SuSE are
walking in the
middle of that narrow yellow-brick road between rough-cut
Slackware etc )
and overpriced
( RedHat ), and doing so with style.
-tosi
-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy R. Butler [mailto:tbutler@uninetsolutions.com]
Sent: 11. október 2000 22:24
To: SuSE Mailing List
Subject: RE: [SLE] Upgrade worth it?
Hi there,
 I thought I'd add a little something into my rant from last week.
FreeBSD
is not
only cheaper but comes with 2,000 packages (the extra 6 CD's) on top
of the
main
distribution packages (first 4 CD's).
 Now, I can't attest to the quality or the ease-of-use of FreeBSD,
nor would
I
want to switch from Linux, but that means two of the "other" guys
(FreeBSD
along
with Slackware) both offer comparable amounts of stuff for less
money. And,
if
ease of use is the excuse, once again, look at Windows ME Quick Jump
for
Windows
98 at just $49 (at stores).
I'll quit ranting for now, but I still can't understand why SuSE
is
suddenly
worth so much more (30-40 $ is a big big hike)...
Still ranting at the fact that open source ain't cheap any more...
-Tim
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy R. Butler                              Universal Networks
Information Tech. Consultant    Christian Web Services Since 1996
ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm       An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller
tbutler@uninetsolutions.com        http://www.uninetsolutions.com
===================== "Solutions that Work" =====================
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Timothy R. Butler [mailto:tbutler@uninetsolutions.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 11:11 PM
> To: SuSE Mailing List
> Subject: [SLE] Upgrade worth it?
>
>
> Hi again,
>   I know, I know, I'm posting about the Upgrade pricing (again),
but I was
> wondering if the Upgrade situation will improve. I noticed that
on the web
site,
> SuSE Pro 7.0 Upgrade is $49.95 plus Shipping and Handling, however
I've
seen the
> full release for only ten bucks more ($59). As you can figure, if
you
> buy the full
> one for $59 at the store, you aren't going to save much (if any)
buying
the
> upgrade for $49 + S&H. So my question is, once SuSE realizes that
...
...
upgrade's
> price isn't saving anybody anything, and comes with _less_ than
...
...
> full release,
> will they make the price more sensible?
>   Before when I asked about prices, I know it was my opinion vs.
someone
else's,
> but I don't understand this. I'm sure SuSE _knew_ that most stores
> would charge at
> least $10 less than MSRP (as usual), and yet they priced the
upgrade high
enough
> that it is virtually useless to even offer here. Did anyone else
notice
this?
>
>   I might add, usually upgrades are a substantial price
difference. If
nothing
> else, it would be nice if each version came with a coupon to
upgrade for
$30-$40
> to the next release (when released). That way new customers would
...
...
full
> price, but loyal buy-every-version customers would get a deal.
>
>   Case and point:
>
>    MS Windows Millenium Edition ARP (Average Retail Pricing): $189
>    MS Windows Millenium Edition Upgrade ARP: $89.95
>    MS Windows Millenium Edition Quick Jump ARP: $49.95
>
>   As you can see, since Windows 98 to ME's features were nearly
...
...
> same (similar
> to how SuSE 6.4 and 7.0 are nearly the same, from what I hear),
> Microsoft offered
> Windows 98 users (loyal buy-every-version customers) a really
cheap
> version. Quick
> Jump retails for 1/4 of the full version's price, and nearly 1/2
of even
the
> upgrade's price.
>   While it can be said this is different, it is not. Microsoft
sees that
the
> difference between 98 and ME isn't enough to get everyone to pay
even
> $89 for it,
> so they offer customers who have bought 98 or 98 SE a cheaper
version.
> To me, this
> is ideal for Linux distros too, since generally there is little
> version-to-version
> change, but slow accumulative change. Enclosing an offer, as I
said
before,
> allowing say 6.4 users-only to go to 7.0 for say $29-$39 would be
great.
>
>   Just my $0.02, adding up to over $1.00 since I've already
At 07:48 PM 10/11/2000 -0500, you wrote:
like that.
the
the
pay the
the
thown in a lot
...
...
of
> $0.02 on the issue...
>
>    -Tim
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Timothy R. Butler                              Universal Networks
> Information Tech. Consultant    Christian Web Services Since 1996
> ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm       An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller
> tbutler@uninetsolutions.com        http://www.uninetsolutions.com
> ===================== "Solutions that Work" =====================
>
>
>
> --
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RE: [SLE] This is an RfC for SuSE, Inc. and SuSE GmBH.

tbutler＠uninetsolutions.com