On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:07 PM, Anders Johansson <ajohansson@suse.de> wrote:
You weren't ignored, it's a valid request. There just has to be developers available for it. In 4.3.x there will be a new "welcome"-application, but I'm not 100% sure what will be in it
So why wasn't there any feedback to the community about that one? Also, what bling is basically more important. If I was a programmer I'd offer to do the work. Alas, I'm only a user who tries to contribute in the only ways I can.
Not at all. pulseaudio is easy to remove, "zypper rm pulseaudio". So is avahi, "zypper rm avahi". I don't see any huge dependency issues
From 11.0(can't check pulseaudio):
Run as root - Server:/home/lstotler # zypper rm avahi Downloading repository 'Packman Repository' metadata [done] Building repository 'Packman Repository' cache [done] Reading installed packages... The following packages are going to be upgraded: kio_iso koffice-wordprocessing libkexiv2-3 libkdcraw3 koffice-spreadsheet konversation libkipi0 digikam koffice-database koffice digikamimageplugins kipi-plugins libgpod-tools libgpod3 kdemultimedia3-mixer libakode libtunepimp5 libtunepimp fftw3 kdemultimedia3-arts kdemultimedia3-CD kdemultimedia3 ksensors The following packages are going to be downgraded: kdenetwork3-InstantMessenger kdebase3 kdebase3-kdm kdebase3-samba kdebase3-nsplugin kdebase3-runtime libktnef1 libkmime2 libkcal2 libkcal kitchensync kdeutils3 kdepim3-notes kdepim3 kdenetwork3-news kdenetwork3 kdelibs3 kdeaddons3-konqueror k3b The following NEW packages are going to be installed: liblcms1-32bit libcurl4-32bit hal-32bit libsndfile-32bit libqt4-x11-32bit libqt4-sql-32bit libqt4-qt3support-32bit libqt4-32bit libxml2-32bit openslp-32bit perl-32bit libavahi-common3-32bit audiofile-32bit libattr-32bit libtdb1-32bit libsmbclient0-32bit libwbclient0-32bit libtalloc1-32bit libgio-2_0-0-32bit libgnutls26-32bit libjasper-32bit libexiv2-2-32bit openldap2-client-32bit libxslt-32bit libesd0-32bit libacl-32bit libexif-32bit konversation-lang kipi-plugins-lang mozilla-nspr-32bit xorg-x11-libXdmcp-32bit tcpd-32bit taglib-32bit sysfsutils-32bit sqlite2-32bit resmgr-32bit qt3-32bit pth-32bit popt-32bit orbit2-32bit libvorbis-32bit libvisual-32bit libuuid1-32bit libusb-32bit libtheora0-32bit libsqlite3-0-32bit libsoup-2_4-1-32bit libsensors3-32bit libsamplerate-32bit libreadline5-32bit liboil-32bit libogg0-32bit libnscd-32bit libmng-32bit libltdl-3-32bit liblazy1-32bit libkdcraw3-lang libjack0-32bit libidn-32bit libidl-32bit libgstreamer-0_10-0-32bit libgstinterfaces-0_10-0-32bit libgsf-1-114-32bit libgphoto2-32bit libgpgme11-32bit libgpg-error0-32bit libgcrypt11-32bit libcdio7-32bit libbz2-1-32bit libbonobo-32bit libart_lgpl-32bit libFLAC8-32bit libFLAC++6-32bit kdelibs3-default-style-32bit gnome-keyring-32bit gmp-32bit gdbm-32bit gconf2-32bit fribidi-32bit fam-32bit dbus-1-qt3-32bit dbus-1-glib-32bit cyrus-sasl-32bit check-32bit cdparanoia-32bit aspell-32bit arts-32bit OpenEXR-32bit IlmBase-32bit libgpod4 libdvdread4 The following packages are going to be reinstalled: bluez-utils mozilla-xulrunner190-gnomevfs yast2-pkg-bindings yast2-ncurses-pkg yast2-qt-pkg satsolver-tools libzypp libavahi-core5 libavahi-glib1 libavahi-client3 libdns_sd zypper libsnmp15 obex-data-server bluez-libs gvfs-fuse libgvfscommon0 gvfs gvfs-backends libgnome poppler-tools libpoppler3 libpoppler-qt2 zvbi yast2-ycp-ui-bindings yast2-xml yast2-users yast2-transfer yast2-storage-lib yast2-storage yast2-sound yast2-slp yast2-qt yast2-profile-manager yast2-printer yast2-perl-bindings yast2-nis-client yast2-ncurses yast2-libyui yast2-ldap yast2-hardware-detection yast2-core wv2 sumf scpm sax2-libsax-perl sax2-libsax sax2-gui sax2 rpm qca openobex obexftp meanwhile limal-perl limal-nfs-server-perl limal-nfs-server limal libwps-0_1-1 libwpd-0_8-8 libqtpod0 libpisock9 libopensync libofa0 libmusicbrainz4 libmpcdec5 libmal libfuse2 libcdio_paranoia0 libcdio_cdda0 libblocxx6 libarchive2 ldapcpplib kwin-decor-suse2 kscpm krecord kio_sysinfo kio_slp kio_ipodslave kinternet kdetv kdelibs3-doc kdelibs3-arts kdegraphics3-postscript kdegraphics3-pdf kdegraphics3-kamera kdegraphics3 kdegames3-tactic kdegames3-card kdegames3-board kdegames3-arcade kdegames3 kdebluetooth kdebase3-SuSE-branding-openSUSE kdebase3-SuSE kdeartwork3-kscreensaver id3lib hwinfo gwenview gstreamer-0_10-plugins-base gnome-vfs2 deltarpm 3ddiag The following packages are going to be REMOVED: nss-mdns avahi libavahi-common3 kmplayer The following packages are going to change architecture: bluez-utils mozilla-xulrunner190-gnomevfs yast2-pkg-bindings yast2-ncurses-pkg yast2-qt-pkg satsolver-tools libzypp libavahi-core5 libavahi-glib1 libavahi-client3 libdns_sd zypper libsnmp15 kdenetwork3-InstantMessenger obex-data-server bluez-libs gvfs-fuse libgvfscommon0 gvfs gvfs-backends libgnome kdebase3 kdebase3-kdm kdebase3-samba kdebase3-nsplugin kdebase3-runtime poppler-tools libpoppler3 libpoppler-qt2 koffice-wordprocessing libkexiv2-3 libkdcraw3 koffice-spreadsheet konversation libkipi0 digikam koffice-database koffice digikamimageplugins kipi-plugins zvbi yast2-ycp-ui-bindings yast2-xml yast2-users yast2-transfer yast2-storage-lib yast2-storage yast2-sound yast2-slp yast2-qt yast2-profile-manager yast2-printer yast2-perl-bindings yast2-nis-client yast2-ncurses yast2-libyui yast2-ldap yast2-hardware-detection yast2-core wv2 sumf scpm sax2-libsax-perl sax2-libsax sax2-gui sax2 rpm qca openobex obexftp meanwhile limal-perl limal-nfs-server-perl limal-nfs-server limal libwps-0_1-1 libwpd-0_8-8 libqtpod0 libpisock9 libopensync libofa0 libmusicbrainz4 libmpcdec5 libmal libktnef1 libkmime2 libkcal2 libkcal libfuse2 libcdio_paranoia0 libcdio_cdda0 libblocxx6 libarchive2 ldapcpplib kwin-decor-suse2 kscpm krecord kitchensync kio_sysinfo kio_slp kio_ipodslave kinternet kdeutils3 kdetv kdepim3-notes kdepim3 kdenetwork3-news kdenetwork3 kdelibs3-doc kdelibs3-arts kdelibs3 kdegraphics3-postscript kdegraphics3-pdf kdegraphics3-kamera kdegraphics3 kdegames3-tactic kdegames3-card kdegames3-board kdegames3-arcade kdegames3 kdebluetooth kdebase3-SuSE-branding-openSUSE kdebase3-SuSE kdeartwork3-kscreensaver kdeaddons3-konqueror id3lib hwinfo gwenview gstreamer-0_10-plugins-base gnome-vfs2 deltarpm 3ddiag libgpod3 kdemultimedia3-mixer libakode libtunepimp5 libtunepimp k3b fftw3 kdemultimedia3-arts kdemultimedia3-CD kdemultimedia3 ksensors The following packages are going to change vendor: kdenetwork3-InstantMessenger kdebase3 kdebase3-kdm kdebase3-samba kdebase3-nsplugin kdebase3-runtime kio_iso koffice-wordprocessing libkexiv2-3 libkdcraw3 koffice-spreadsheet konversation libkipi0 koffice-database koffice kipi-plugins libktnef1 libkmime2 libkcal2 libkcal kitchensync kdeutils3 kdepim3-notes kdepim3 kdenetwork3-news kdenetwork3 kdelibs3 kdeaddons3-konqueror libgpod-tools libgpod3 kdemultimedia3-mixer libakode libtunepimp5 libtunepimp k3b fftw3 kdemultimedia3-arts kdemultimedia3-CD kdemultimedia3 ksensors Overall download size: 162.1 M. After the operation, additional 31.3 M will be used. Continue? [Y/n/p/?]: I understand that it's similar under 11.1. To remove 1 package, I have to add 30+MB of stuff and make some serious changes to my system.
Honestly, it doesn't sound to me like you need any kind of KDE. You seem more a windowmaker, or afterstep guy.
Nope. KDE3. I use KOffice as well. openoffice too damn resource intensive.
New video card? Of course not. All graphical effects are off by default unless you have a graphics card that is known to work with the effects (new-ish nvidia or ati with a proper driver). The basic desktop you can run with any non-neolithic graphics card.
So, when I install it on say my Thinkpad A22p with an ATI Mobility M3/8MB, it shouldn't run slower than KDE3 even though by default KDE4 has widgets and stuff that have to be rendered as well? That wasn't the case with 11.0. I haven't tired 11.1 on this machine mainly because I haven't done much with 11.1.
KDE4 has an improved infrastructure, which makes it easier for developers to develop new things. KDE3 was in a technological cul-de-sac, just look at the problems they had getting kicker and kdesktop to play nice with each other.
Which I've never complained about. What I've complained about is that the core work seems to be focused on bling and other crap instead of stability and usability. Also, while the KDE devs claim that the video driver issues are the chipset driver's fault, did they go to those guys and say, hey, we've broken your driver and here's what we did. Anything we can do to make things better?
Pre-kde4.2 I can agree that end users had a hard time, but now I don't see what the issue is
The issue is that I would need to use the build service to get 4.2.x, but I've recently seen that we are being told that the build service isn't supported, so if something breaks, I'm SOL. But, you're telling me that the current 4.2.x is fixed, so I guess I need the build service to get that. So, is the build service considered part of the system or not? I guess the issues will be resolved when I can easily turn off the new bling, get rid of widgets I don't want/need, and can have icons on my desktop like I have now, and the stability problems have been fixed(which may or may not be the case with the current release of KDE4). Because I haven't seen any compelling reason to use KDE4 and seen way too many reasons why it isn't ready for prime time. If KDE4.2.x is so neccessary for a good experience, why aren't the install media remastered with it so that everyone gets the experience they should get upon install? I wonder how many have been turned off to openSUSE because they installed 11.1 and had problems. Be honest with me. Was the KDE4 included in the release of 11.0 and 11.1 really up to the standards that people come to expect from SuSE? I'm not talking about where KDE4 is right now. I'm asking if it was truly ready at the point of release. Because that's the problem IMO. I'm not trying to hurt this community. I would prefer to stick with openSUSE. I just dont' feel that it's going where I want to see it go and most importantly, it's not providing me what I need and why I use Linux. That will hopefully change, and maybe 11.2 will bring it closer in line with most of us long timer's expectations of the quality that this distro should have. We'll have to see. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org