Fwd: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

Rafa Grimán

3 Nov 2006 3 Nov '06

12:16

Hola :) Pedazo de correo de un tío de Red Hat a la lista de opensuse. OLE, Campeón !!! Rafa -- "Even paranoids have enemies." Rafa Grimán Systems Engineer Silicon Graphics Spain Santa Engracia, 120 - Planta Baja 28003 Madrid Spain Tel: +34 91 3984200 Tel: +34 91 3984201 Móvil: +34 628 117 940 http://www.sgi.com OpenWengo: rgriman Skype: rgriman

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Carlos E. R.

3 Nov 3 Nov

13:55

New subject: [suse-linux-s] Fwd: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 El 2006-11-03 a las 12:15 +0100, Rafa Grimán escribió:

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Hola :)

Pedazo de correo de un tío de Red Hat a la lista de opensuse. OLE, Campeón !!!

Interesante. Voy a copiar otro a moderadamente a favor. Basicamente dice que será bueno para las empresas con entornos mixtos (y no me contesteis basándoos unicamente en esa frase, hay que leerlo entero para ver sus motivaciones). Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 00:13:41 -0600 From: Peter Van Lone To: Subject: Re: [SLE] Microsoft backs Novell's Linux platform On 11/2/06, John Andersen <t> wrote:

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On Thursday 02 November 2006 18:00, Peter Van Lone wrote:

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1)virtualization. SUSE will work on Windows, and be supported by Novell. Windows will work on SUSE and will be supported by Novell (this includes applications, not just bare os -- at least that is how I took it).

Have you read the Vista license lately Peter?

well, not lately John. But, I'm not sure that this agreement even covers vista in a VM. It may be that it has more to do with supporting the respective companies SERVERS (and an applications running on same) in each others VM's. In general, I think that this agreement addresses real needs of real enterprise customers. Despite claims to the contrary I know many "enterprise" environments that are very very "Windows centric and friendly". These businesses want all systems to play nicely together, with a minimum of fuss. This kind of agreement between Novell and Microsoft is exactly what they want. It may in the end prove hightly beneficial to linux in general. It may not. Is it possible that ... Novell will subsequently be "outplayed" and will not be able to leverage this opportunity. Certainly. But I do think it is an opportunity in this space. As such, I think it *may* end up driving SUSE linux deeper into the data center ... and that is a good thing, IMHO. None of this, the aggreement or its potential benefits, really applys to individual users or small companies ... there may or may not be any technology from this collaboration that makes it's way to these places. Suse need to get better at driving this segment, too ... but I don't believe that gains in the corporate world = pain for the community. I get a little tired of hearing people react to things, always, as though events are part of a grand battle between good and evil, where the sides are clear and the stakes are high. Please. Things just are not that simple. Linux is not the "all powerful all good god of technology" nor is Microsoft the living incarnation of satan. It's an absurd world view. I hope to see linux grow and thrive, and to see microsofts influence diminish proportionally. I came to these desires for a variety of reasons. But Microsoft being "evil" is not really one of them (even while I think that thier monopolistic influence is bad for technology and bad for business). I also prefer small non-corporate business to large multi-national interests. Again, for a variety of reasons. But again ..... on and on. Peter - -- - -- Saludos Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFSzwytTMYHG2NR9URApCXAJ9+c1InzdmrQNm2B68ytiYcWvboogCeOECj L/vBQK0vMEjncPndXblFzSc= =Fj9O -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

David Lara

14:14

New subject: [suse-linux-s] Fwd: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

El fin es legitimo, las formas no. No parece que se arrepientan de haber metido en un buen follon a unas cuantas distribuciones que han colaborado, en dinero y horas de trabajo, en un codigo comun que forma parte de Suse. Que cambien el nombre de su distro a Novell Linux, y dejen ya de manchar el nombre de Suse. Es Novell la nueva SCO ?

Rafa Grimán

15:25

New subject: [suse-linux-s] Fwd: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

Hola :) El Viernes, 3 de Noviembre de 2006 13:55, Carlos E. R. escribió:

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El 2006-11-03 a las 12:15 +0100, Rafa Grimán escribió:

...
Hola :)

Pedazo de correo de un tío de Red Hat a la lista de opensuse. OLE, Campeón !!!

Interesante.

Voy a copiar otro a moderadamente a favor. Basicamente dice que será bueno para las empresas con entornos mixtos (y no me contesteis basándoos unicamente en esa frase, hay que leerlo entero para ver sus motivaciones).

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 00:13:41 -0600 From: Peter Van Lone To: Subject: Re: [SLE] Microsoft backs Novell's Linux platform

On 11/2/06, John Andersen <t> wrote:

...
On Thursday 02 November 2006 18:00, Peter Van Lone wrote:

...
1)virtualization. SUSE will work on Windows, and be supported by Novell. Windows will work on SUSE and will be supported by Novell (this includes applications, not just bare os -- at least that is how I took it).

Have you read the Vista license lately Peter?

well, not lately John. But, I'm not sure that this agreement even covers vista in a VM. It may be that it has more to do with supporting the respective companies SERVERS (and an applications running on same) in each others VM's.

In general, I think that this agreement addresses real needs of real enterprise customers. Despite claims to the contrary I know many "enterprise" environments that are very very "Windows centric and friendly".

These businesses want all systems to play nicely together, with a minimum of fuss. This kind of agreement between Novell and Microsoft is exactly what they want. It may in the end prove hightly beneficial to linux in general. It may not.

¿Seguro? Entonces, ¿por qué no abrir las especificaciones de AD (por ejemplo) para que Linux (en general y no Novell en particular) y MS "play nicely together"?

...

Is it possible that ... Novell will subsequently be "outplayed" and will not be able to leverage this opportunity. Certainly. But I do think it is an opportunity in this space. As such, I think it *may* end up driving SUSE linux deeper into the data center ... and that is a good thing, IMHO.

Linux ya lleva mucho tiempo en el Data Center y cada vez hay más. ¿Realmente este acuerdo es lo que ayuda a que Linux entre en el DataCenter? Entonces, ¿cómo es que ha entrado y está fuerte en el Data Center si hasta hoy no había ese acuerdo?

...

None of this, the aggreement or its potential benefits, really applys to individual users or small companies ... there may or may not be any technology from this collaboration that makes it's way to these places. Suse need to get better at driving this segment, too ... but I don't believe that gains in the corporate world = pain for the community.

Le remito a lo que implica la protección de patentes apra una pequeña empresa desarrolladora.

...

I get a little tired of hearing people react to things, always, as though events are part of a grand battle between good and evil, where the sides are clear and the stakes are high. Please. Things just are not that simple. Linux is not the "all powerful all good god of technology" nor is Microsoft the living incarnation of satan. It's an absurd world view.

Estoy de acuerdo, pero, ¿no sería más "fair play" abrir o documentar las especificaciones del AD (por ejemplo)? ¿No sería más "fair play" seguir los estándares (ODF) y no inventar uno nuevo?

...

I hope to see linux grow and thrive, and to see microsofts influence diminish proportionally. I came to these desires for a variety of reasons. But Microsoft being "evil" is not really one of them (even while I think that thier monopolistic influence is bad for technology and bad for business).

Pues estás defendiendo su "monopolístic influence" ...

...

I also prefer small non-corporate business to large multi-national interests. Again, for a variety of reasons. But again ..... on and on.

Rafa -- "Even paranoids have enemies." Rafa Grimán Systems Engineer Silicon Graphics Spain Santa Engracia, 120 - Planta Baja 28003 Madrid Spain Tel: +34 91 3984200 Tel: +34 91 3984201 Móvil: +34 628 117 940 http://www.sgi.com OpenWengo: rgriman Skype: rgriman

Carlos E. R.

17:04

New subject: [suse-linux-s] Fwd: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 El 2006-11-03 a las 12:15 +0100, Rafa Grimán escribió:

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Hola :)

Pedazo de correo de un tío de Red Hat a la lista de opensuse. OLE, Campeón !!!

Pongo la respuesta de uno de Novell (un cuarto de hora después), que tampoco se queda manco poniendo a caldo a redhat. - -- Saludos Carlos E. R. Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 02:03:16 -0700 From: Magnus Boman Cc: Subject: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

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On Fri, Nov 3, 2006 at 7:44 PM, in message <>, Greg Dekoenigsberg <> wrote:

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...
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Yes, you need to switch to KUbuntu immediately. Because of a corporate agreement between Novell and Microsoft that nobody knows what it is about and that does most likely neither affect you nor the openSUSE project at all.

You're hiding your head in the sand if you actually believe this. The implications of Novell's actions today are *crystal* clear to the rest of the open source world.

Really? And what are they?

...

Novell is now trying to claim that *their* version of Linux is free of patent risks, and that everyone else's Linux isn't. Section 7 of the GPL was written *precisely* to prevent this tactic.

Please back this up with facts.

...

Here's the real meat of the problem:

If Novell ever distributes code to any project under the GPL, and that code infringes a M$ patent, and M$ tries to assert patent rights on anyone in that patent, Novell immediately loses the right to distribute that code under the GPL, per section 7. Eben Moglen, counsel for the Free Software Foundation, has already said as much.

You obviously didn't listen to the press conference, nor did you read the FAQ. Whatever stuff Novell distributes (under GPL or otherwise) for Linux, will already be cleared from MS IP infringements. The deal with MS says that we have to make sure it is so. So it is a win not only Novell, but for everyone else in the community.

...

You signed a patent agreement with M$ for speculative protection. And you'd better believe that the greater open source community will hold you accountable for your choice. Novell developers will find it *incredibly* difficult to work upstream now.

Really. How come that SUN can be involved? They also have agreements with MS. They are really no different compared to Novell.

...

You can't have it both ways. Either you believe in open source, or you don't. And by trying to use "patent protection" as a competitive advantage, Novell has made it clear which side of the fence they stand on.

So just because RH have a philosophy that it won't use any closed source, does that mean everybody else have to do the same or be banished?

...

The sad irony: I don't believe that SuSE would ever have made this deal as an independent company.

You believing doesn't make it a fact.

...

I've watched opensuse with interest since its inception. I always kind of figured that, as opensuse matured, the opensuse and Fedora communities might have had opportunities to work together directly. I guess that won't happen now. Too bad.

Well, if the Fedora community wants to be that narrow, then I guess there's nothing much the openSUSE community can do about it?

...

-- g

Cheers, Magnus -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFS2iLtTMYHG2NR9URAlqoAJ4ntf2Qxgi57THA1C3PnTPn27QUuQCfbxKD my4kXIjQNHBatzADZRxyMhM= =WlJ+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Mauricio Masís

18:20

New subject: [suse-linux-s] Fwd: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

Aqui lo que tengo es un problema de grandes magnitudes en mi cabeza! :P Primero que todo trataré de recapitularme yo mismo para ver si llego a aclararme yo mismo... [monólogo] Seleccioné una distro de Linux que tiene bastante apoyo por parte de un sector importante de usuarios, aun cuando esta distro es respaldada por una empresa fuerte de software y equipo... Que VENDE todo lo que produce... al fin es una empresa "lucrativa" esto lo tenía claro. Pues todo el trabajo que puedan hacer con esta distro de código abierto es para que en un futuro [dudaba que a largo plazo] puedan tener retribuciones y claras ganancias... Estamos en el siglo XXI, globalización, cambio rápido, nuevo sistema de negocios y nuevas formas de mercados... Simplemente el que no cambia y evoluciona en esta lucha se pierde... Vamos! que Suse [el nombre esta patentado por quién? ¿Novell?] puede que sirva de plataforma para software de derechos MS.... Es posible - aunque intenté leer los correos de las listas que pasaron no me queda claro, mi idioma natal es español, de hecho por eso seleccioné esta lista...- Y lo mismo puede y estará pasando dentro de RH y otras distros fuertes... si las hay fuertes.. como estas dos. Pero entonces me encuentro con otra pregunta de frente! ¿Es por esto que Torvals no está deacuerdo con la nueva GPL? ¿Es la nueva GPL un puente para lanzar este "tipo" de alianza con el monopólico, caritativo y sobretodo donador M$? .... Agradecería que alguien comentara estas ideas que pueden ser tontas, pero es a lo que he llegado con toda esta confución y noticia que me agarró de improviso... Saludos: Mau ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos E. R." To: "SLS" Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [suse-linux-s] Fwd: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

El 2006-11-03 a las 12:15 +0100, Rafa Grimán escribió:

...
Hola :)

Pedazo de correo de un tío de Red Hat a la lista de opensuse. OLE, Campeón !!!

Pongo la respuesta de uno de Novell (un cuarto de hora después), que tampoco se queda manco poniendo a caldo a redhat.

- -- Saludos Carlos E. R.

Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 02:03:16 -0700 From: Magnus Boman Cc: Subject: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

...
...
...
On Fri, Nov 3, 2006 at 7:44 PM, in message <>, Greg Dekoenigsberg <> wrote:

...
...
...
Yes, you need to switch to KUbuntu immediately. Because of a corporate agreement between Novell and Microsoft that nobody knows what it is about and that does most likely neither affect you nor the openSUSE project at all.

You're hiding your head in the sand if you actually believe this. The implications of Novell's actions today are *crystal* clear to the rest of the open source world.

Really? And what are they?

...
Novell is now trying to claim that *their* version of Linux is free of patent risks, and that everyone else's Linux isn't. Section 7 of the GPL was written *precisely* to prevent this tactic.

Please back this up with facts.

...
Here's the real meat of the problem:

If Novell ever distributes code to any project under the GPL, and that code infringes a M$ patent, and M$ tries to assert patent rights on anyone in that patent, Novell immediately loses the right to distribute that code under the GPL, per section 7. Eben Moglen, counsel for the Free Software Foundation, has already said as much.

You obviously didn't listen to the press conference, nor did you read the FAQ. Whatever stuff Novell distributes (under GPL or otherwise) for Linux, will already be cleared from MS IP infringements. The deal with MS says that we have to make sure it is so. So it is a win not only Novell, but for everyone else in the community.

...
You signed a patent agreement with M$ for speculative protection. And you'd better believe that the greater open source community will hold you accountable for your choice. Novell developers will find it *incredibly* difficult to work upstream now.

Really. How come that SUN can be involved? They also have agreements with MS. They are really no different compared to Novell.

...
You can't have it both ways. Either you believe in open source, or you don't. And by trying to use "patent protection" as a competitive advantage, Novell has made it clear which side of the fence they stand on.

So just because RH have a philosophy that it won't use any closed source, does that mean everybody else have to do the same or be banished?

...
The sad irony: I don't believe that SuSE would ever have made this deal as an independent company.

You believing doesn't make it a fact.

...
I've watched opensuse with interest since its inception. I always kind of figured that, as opensuse matured, the opensuse and Fedora communities might have had opportunities to work together directly. I guess that won't happen now. Too bad.

Well, if the Fedora community wants to be that narrow, then I guess there's nothing much the openSUSE community can do about it?

...
-- g

Cheers, Magnus -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76

iD8DBQFFS2iLtTMYHG2NR9URAlqoAJ4ntf2Qxgi57THA1C3PnTPn27QUuQCfbxKD my4kXIjQNHBatzADZRxyMhM= =WlJ+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Carlos E. R.

19:30

New subject: [suse-linux-s] Fwd: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 El 2006-11-03 a las 11:18 -0600, Mauricio Masís escribió:

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Pero entonces me encuentro con otra pregunta de frente! ¿Es por esto que Torvals no está deacuerdo con la nueva GPL? ¿Es la nueva GPL un puente para lanzar este "tipo" de alianza con el monopólico, caritativo y sobretodo donador M$?

No, eso si que no tiene nada que ver, entre otras cosas porque lo que hay ahora mismo está con la GPL tradicional.

...

.... Agradecería que alguien comentara estas ideas que pueden ser tontas, pero es a lo que he llegado con toda esta confución y noticia que me agarró de improviso...

Nadie lo tiene claro todavía. Yo he tratado de escuchar la rueda de prensa o presentación, pero es larga, y como no la puedo pausar, no me he enterado de mucho. Sería mejor leerlo para poder pensar. He visto mencionado un FAQ sobre el tema, pero no se donde está. Y no quiero hacer demasiados comentarios de oídas de terceros. - -- Saludos Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFS4qmtTMYHG2NR9URAqeRAJ9+Foc4YNpoarr8wRKqEOCxmO+czACfYnPl AwTXjy4rC5NUSEs+isguwfk= =8zyi -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

miguel gmail

4 Nov 4 Nov

01:36

New subject: [suse-linux-s] Fwd: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

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He visto mencionado un FAQ sobre el tema, pero no se donde está.

http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html me lo voy a leer ahora mismito... -- Saludos, miguel

Carlos E. R.

01:51

New subject: [suse-linux-s] Fwd: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 El 2006-11-04 a las 01:36 +0100, miguel gmail escribió:

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He visto mencionado un FAQ sobre el tema, pero no se donde está.

http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html

me lo voy a leer ahora mismito...

Yo lo dejo abierto en otra pestaña ;-) y ya lo leeré. - -- Saludos Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFS+P0tTMYHG2NR9URAskFAJ0VdumwUWLTyJmwsDhQb+Fats9wdACeN9b1 JCp+uUnwoYAwuGLY0XmJ0h0= =jeKy -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

miguel gmail

01:56

New subject: [suse-linux-s] Fwd: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

...

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http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html

me lo voy a leer ahora mismito...

Yo lo dejo abierto en otra pestaña ;-) y ya lo leeré.

perombrepordiós, luego nos venimos a quejar de que si el firefox gasta memoria... y que decimos de la luz!! -- Saludos, miguel

Carlos E. R.

02:47

New subject: [suse-linux-s] Fwd: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 El 2006-11-04 a las 01:56 +0100, miguel gmail escribió:

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...
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http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html

me lo voy a leer ahora mismito...

Yo lo dejo abierto en otra pestaña ;-) y ya lo leeré.

perombrepordiós, luego nos venimos a quejar de que si el firefox gasta memoria... y que decimos de la luz!!

¿Es que te has olvidado del "suspend" aka hibernación? Se manda a dormir al PC. Además, así la memoria inutil se libera, se manda a la swap. Tengo unos doscientos megas suapedos sólopor haberlo suspendido: al despertar no los necesita y así se quedan, más memoria libre. El firefox "sólo" usa unos doscientos megas. Y ahora el que se va al sobre soy yo :-) - -- Saludos Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFS/E7tTMYHG2NR9URAoWSAKCT4hp2uMZjKmK8GDP4tO2HzQqgKgCghFW7 b/2Zkllvr/WgLAFEMwoO28g= =7SdG -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Rafa Grimán

6 Nov 6 Nov

11:02

New subject: [suse-linux-s] Fwd: Re: [opensuse] So Long openSuSe

Hola :) El Viernes, 3 de Noviembre de 2006 18:18, Mauricio Masís escribió: [...]

...

Vamos! que Suse [el nombre esta patentado por quién? ¿Novell?]

Registrado, no se patentan marcas, se registran.

...

Pero entonces me encuentro con otra pregunta de frente! ¿Es por esto que Torvals no está deacuerdo con la nueva GPL? ¿Es la nueva GPL un puente para lanzar este "tipo" de alianza con el monopólico, caritativo y sobretodo donador M$?

No, lo de la GPL v 3 (Linus vs GPL v 3) no tiene nada que ver con este problema (Novell - MS). Linus no está a favor de una cláusula que aparece en la GPL v3. Rafa -- "Even paranoids have enemies." Rafa Grimán Systems Engineer Silicon Graphics Spain Santa Engracia, 120 - Planta Baja 28003 Madrid Spain Tel: +34 91 3984200 Tel: +34 91 3984201 Móvil: +34 628 117 940 http://www.sgi.com OpenWengo: rgriman Skype: rgriman

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Carlos E. R.
David Lara
Mauricio Masís
miguel gmail
Rafa Grimán